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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: Anjotod on Sunday 16 June 13 06:09 BST (UK)

Title: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Sunday 16 June 13 06:09 BST (UK)
I am looking for any info: on George Todd, Born: Jun 1891, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England.
His mother was Jane Todd B: 1857, Hennsingham, Cumberland, England, daughter of William Todd
And Bridget Jenkinson.
(*)

Anthony

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Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Sunday 16 June 13 08:19 BST (UK)
Hello and welcome to RootsChat,

To save duplicate look ups could you post (briefly)what information you already have (BMD/census etc) or if there is anything you are especially looking for.

The mods may remove your e mail address (it is RootsChat policy not to post e addresses- spam etc)

Regards

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Sunday 16 June 13 13:31 BST (UK)
I have not got much on him except England & Wales Birth index 10a page 707. Possible death age 79.
He had a brother Anthony Todd 28 Oct 1885-13 Dec 1945.thats all I have at the moment
as I am finding it hard to get the proper doc's.
There is another George B 1895 death pos: Sep 1963.
I have to find out which one it is.
Anthony
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 14:45 BST (UK)
Hi
This looks like Antony with his grandmother and uncle?
in Egremont

1891
Bridget Todd 65 Head widow born Hensingham
William Jenkinson 42 Son born Hensingham, Cumberland
Antony Todd 5 Grandson born Whitehaven
On one of the sites, William Jenkinson's name has been changed to Todd

4318/93/22

Heather
details amended
 
 
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 14:52 BST (UK)
1881
Keekle Cottage
St Bees District
Whitehaven

Bridget Todd 51 widow
Thomas Todd 21 son
Anthony Todd 19 son
Jane Todd 15 daughter bHensingham Domestic Servant
Bridget Todd 8 granddaughter
John Downie 66 Lodger
John (Jr) Downie 19 lodger
Hannah Downie 4 lodger
 John Rudd 25 lodger
Hugh Stephenson 28 lodger
Robert Downie 27 lodger
Martha Downie 27lodger
Hannah Downie lodger

 
 5190/11/15
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 15:01 BST (UK)
1861
Hensingham
William Todd 51 Carter
Bridget Todd 32
William Todd son 19 Carter
Elizabeth Todd daughter 13
William Jenkinson 13 stepson mother's name Bridget Todd   Carter
Daniel Todd son10
Martha Todd daughter 8
Sarah Todd daughter 6
Jane Todd daughter 3
Thos B Todd son 1

3950/86/13
 
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 15:07 BST (UK)
1851
William Todd 53
Bridget Todd 22
Thomas Todd son 11 
William Todd son 8
Mary Ann Todd daughter 6
Elizabeth Todd daughter 2
William Jenkinson nephew 2
Daniel Todd son 5 
James Garnett servant 17
Daniel Todd servant 61 
Bridgett Lewther servant 18
David Spencer servant 18

25/2437/41/8
 
 
 
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 15:13 BST (UK)
1901
in Egremont

William Jenkins 52 Head
Bridget Todd 73 mother

237/4896/62/42
 
 
 
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 15:26 BST (UK)
The only George Todd born in Whitehaven in 1891 seems to be the son of George Todd and Sarah
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Sunday 16 June 13 16:51 BST (UK)
Hi
This looks like Antony with his grandmother and father
in Egremont

1891
Bridget Todd 65 Head widow born Hensingham
William Todd 42 Son born Hensingham, Cumberland (William Jenkinson)
Antony Todd 5 Grandson father's name William Todd born Whitehaven

4318/93/22

Heather

William Jenkinson is Bridget Todd's son - born before she married William Todd - I don't think he is the father of Anthony???

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 17:22 BST (UK)
I thought the same Suzard but that is what was on the census transcription. :-\
William should be his uncle.
Heather
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Sunday 16 June 13 19:22 BST (UK)
Hi Heather,

1891 William is described correctly as son to head of house (Bridget) he is unmarried -there is no mention on the image of him being father to Anthony.

We are supposed to work from the image so the transcriptions are our own - we used to be told that we were not breaking copyright rules if we transcribed from the images.

Regards

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 16 June 13 21:44 BST (UK)
Hi Suzard

Thanks for that reminder.
I have amended my post.
 :)

Heather
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 16 June 13 23:01 BST (UK)
I have not got much on him except England & Wales Birth index 10a page 707. Possible death age 79.
He had a brother Anthony Todd 28 Oct 1885-13 Dec 1945.thats all I have at the moment
as I am finding it hard to get the proper doc's.
There is another George B 1895 death pos: Sep 1963.
I have to find out which one it is.
Anthony

George Todd born in 1895 was the son of William Todd and Sarah Gibson (married Whitehaven Seot 1886 - 10b 802)

Family in 1891 Bells Lane. New Houses. Preston Quarter Whitehaven.

William Todd 30  and Sarah Todd 27
Joseph Todd 2 (altered to Josephine)  Susann Todd 1

1901 Burnt House. Mount Pleasant. Whitehaven.

William Todd 40  and  Sarah Todd 37
Josephine Todd 12  Lizzie Todd 8
George Todd 6
Sarah Todd 2  William Todd 1

This George Todd died  Whitehaven - Q3 July/Aug/Sept 1963 - Aged 68 years. 1 a 145.

Sandra


 
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Monday 17 June 13 01:05 BST (UK)
Thanks Sandra,
That George does not seem the one I will have find out about George Todd Born 1891 with possible
death age 79. Index 10a 707 & index 1a 174

Anthony
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Monday 17 June 13 02:19 BST (UK)
I have just found out that the George Todd I am looking for is a printer, mostly books in the
Cumberland area.

Anthony
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 17 June 13 08:13 BST (UK)
I have just found out that the George Todd I am looking for is a printer, mostly books in the
Cumberland area.

1921 directory has
TODD George T, printer, Strand Street.

In 1954, the company was at 41-42 Strand St, GTT living at 11 The Green, Bransty.

This would seem to match
Births Jun 1885
TODD    George Thomas        Whitehaven    10b   670

Deaths Dec 1964
TODD    George T    79    Whitehaven    1a   174

You may find him (and his mother Margaret) indexed as FODD in 1911. :)

1901
5 Michael Street, Whitehaven
Margaret TODD (wid) 49 Cockermouth
Moses 19 Coal Miner, St Bees
George Thomas 16 Apprentice Printer, St Bees
Harold 11 Whitehaven
Henry MARTIN (boarder,wid)39? Coal Miner, Dearham

1891
9 Michael St, Whitehaven
William TODD 48 Cart Driver, Hensingham
Margaret 39 Harras Moor
Moses 9 St Bees
George 6 St Bees
Earl 1 Whitehaven

:)
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 17 June 13 08:42 BST (UK)
Hi
In 1901, George Thomas Todd is an apprentice printer. His mother is given as  Margaret Todd

5 Michael Street
St James Parish
Whitehaven

Margaret Todd 47 widow born Cockermouth
Moses Todd 19 son Coalmine Hewer born St Bees
George Thomas Todd 16 son Apprentice Printer born St Bees
Harold Todd 11 son born Whitehaven
Henry Martin 29 Boarder Coalmine Hewer born Whitehaven

4892/66/29

Heather


 
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 17 June 13 09:07 BST (UK)
1881
Main St, St Bees
William TOOD 36 Carter, Hensingham
Margaret A 30 Brigham
Martha 9 Harras Moor
Sarah J 7 Harras Moor
William 5 Harras Moor

Marriages Sep 1868 
LOWTHER    Margaret        Whitehaven    10b   707   
TODD    William         Whitehaven    10b   707

1871
Main St, High Harras
William TODD 25 Lab on railway, Hensingham
Margaret 19 Cockermouth
John 1 Preston Quarter

LOWTHER households on both sides :)

I have used the spelling "Harras" although the census entries are "Harris".  You won't find Harris on a map http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=298537&Y=518372&A=Y&Z=115
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: camusnafayre on Saturday 10 August 13 19:10 BST (UK)
My wife worked for George Todd, Strand Street, Whitehaven. between 1948 and 1958. She is now 81
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Friday 24 July 15 19:12 BST (UK)
I was researching the Jenkinson-Wilson family and I am sure there is a connection to the Todd- Jenkinson family.

My wife's great great grandfather is Thomas Wilson. Born in Ireland in 1826.  Not sure when he left for England but he married Jane Jenkinson, daughter of William Jenkinson and Mary, 28 May 1858, Church of St. James, Whitehaven, St. Bees.  Jane already had a son, Charles, out of wedlock.
Jane was born in Hensingham in 1824.

William & Mary Jenkinson also had a daughter, Bridget, born 1827, also in Hensingham.  She had a son, William, also out of wedlock, born abt 1848.

I am sure this is the same Bridget as the Bridget Todd mentioned in previous posts.


When Jane married Thomas Wilson, she was a servant living in Beck Bottom. (Not sure where that is).  The marriage cert shows father William as "Quarryman"

I am really interested in knowing more about the parents, William Jenkinson and Mary.

As an 82 year old senior, grounded from driving, our budget does not allow membership in Ancestry, FindMyPast, etc., so I use Family Search and the Internet as my access to information.

Any data on William & Mary would be most appreciated.
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Saturday 25 July 15 19:03 BST (UK)
Re the 1851 Census.

I notice that William Todd is shown as 53 years old.

His wife Bridget as 22 years old.

We know that Bridget had a son, William Jenkinson, before she married William Todd.  In the 1851 census Williamson Jenkinson is shown as "nephew".  Educated guess would be that this should read "step son" to head of family William.

I also suspect that William Todd was previously married and that at least two, maybe three, of the children shown are from that previous marriage.    Bridget would have been only 11 years old when Thomas was born and 14 when William was born. 

Is it possible this was a marriage of convenience.  Bridget had a young son to support and William had a bunch of kids and needed a housemother.  I don't have a marriage date.

I do not have access to Ancestry or FindMyPast.  Would the original census documents clarify any of these questions?

Thanks.

Roy French
Mississauga - Canada.

Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Saturday 25 July 15 19:10 BST (UK)
Wonder if this is your William & Mary??

1841
Strand St Whitehaven Cumberland
William Jenkinson 50 Labourer
Mary 46
Fearon? (male) 20 Lab
Geor ge 12
Elizabeth 18
all b in county
HO107 177 8 12 18

1851Ribton? Moorside Whitehaven
William Jenkinson Head widower 58 Quarryman Lamplugh Cumberland
Joseph Jenkinson son U 29 Quarryman St Bees Whitehaven
HO107 2437 69 9

1861
Ribton? Moorside Whitehaven
William Jenkinson Head widower 70 Lime Burner Lamplaugh Cumberland
Joseph son U 47 Lime burner Quarryman Hensingham Cumberland
RG3949 103 12

Possible marriage for William & Mary
Family search24 May 1812
St Bees Whitehaven Cumberland
William Jenkinson
Mary Gibson

poss baptism?
William Jenkinson
4 mar 1792
Lamplugh Cumberland
parents Joseph & Mary

Possible death reg ? FreeBMD
William Jenkinson
Sept qtr 1870
age 79
Whitehaven
10b 355

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Saturday 25 July 15 19:27 BST (UK)
It seems William Todd's age has been mistranscribed in 1851

It also seems that William Jenkinson age 2 was the nephew of William Todd -as William Todd's first wife was Martha Jenkinson -and in 1841 they lived next door to William & Mary jenkinson
Bridget Jenkinson married William Todd in 1850
posting census shortly

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Saturday 25 July 15 19:40 BST (UK)
1841
Sergill? Whitehaven Cumberland
William Jenkinson 43 ag lab
Mary Jenkinson 50

next door

William Todd 20
Martha 20
Thomas 9month

all b in Cumberland

HO107 158 10 22 14

1851
Overend Cumberland
William Todd Head M  32 Cart Owner Richmond Hill Cumberland
Bridget wife 22 Braggs? (or \blacks? -difficult to read) new Houses Hensingham Cumberland
Thomas Todd son 11
William Todd son 8
Mary Ann Todd 6
Elizabeth Todd daughter 2
William Jenkinson nephew 2
Daniel Todd son 5

children all born same place as Bridget
HO107 2437 41 8

Looking for marriages now

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Saturday 25 July 15 19:54 BST (UK)
Marriage reg FreeBMD
Jun qtr 1840
Whitehaven reg district
Martha Jenkinson
William Todd
25 177

Baptism
Martha Jenkinson
14 July 1816
Lamplugh Cumberland
Parents William & Mary
FHL no 90640

So William Todd was William Jenkinson (son of Bridget)'s Uncle and later by marriage his Step father

Martha Jenkinson's death was registered Oct qtr 1849

Marriage reg FreeBMD
JMar qtr 1850
Whitehaven reg district
on same page
William Todd
Bridget Jenkinson
25 165

Just a guess but it seems possible that Martha died shortly after the birth of daughter Elizabeth?


Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Saturday 25 July 15 20:25 BST (UK)
Baptisms of children born to William Todd & Martha
Hensingham Cumberland
Elizabeth Todd 11 Jun 1848
Thomas barnes Todd 20 Sept 1840 death 22 mar 1855
Mary Ann Todd 14 Dec 1845
Mary Todd 12 Jun 1842 death 5 Sept 1842

Then there is Baptism Daniel Todd
Hensingham
29 Dec 1850
death 4 Apr 1863
parents William Todd and Bridget

I suspect daniel was martha's son but was not baptised until after her death (baptism date can be year after birth)

I cannot find baptism for Thomas age 11 in 1851 -wonder if he was born before marriage?

There is a birth reg Thomas Jenkinson 1839 Whitehaven reg dist - and martha didn't marry William Todd until 1840

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Sunday 26 July 15 04:25 BST (UK)
Hi Suz:

Wow, that is a lot of information for an 82 year old to absorb and dissect.  Little overwhelming but I will try to put it all in perspective.

You have confirmed my suspicion re William Todd having had a previous marriage.  Just have to figure out which Martha was his first wife.

I have William Jenkinson and Mary Gibson as Bridget and Jane's grandparents.  Her parents were also William and Mary but I don't yet have Mary's maiden name.

I am honestly a little confused with so much commonality in names.  Trying to figure it all out will the kind of challenge as therapy for mind accuity.  Beats crosswords.

Kind regards,

Roy French
Mississauga - Canada.

Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Sunday 26 July 15 04:33 BST (UK)
I sent this earlier as a personal message to Anthony.

Thought it might be of interest to others.

Other than the census records in Family Search, the only official document I have is a marriage certificate from 28 May 1858.  It details the marriage of Jane, the daughter of William Jenkinson and Mary ???, to my wife's great, great grandfather, Thomas Wilson. It shows that Jane was a servant working in Beck Bottom.  William Jenkinson is listed as quarryman.  Thomas Wilson was a miner. Probably coal miner but there was other significant minerals mined and quarried in the area.

Also at the time of the marriage, Jane had a 5 year old son, Charles Case Jenkinson.  The name was never changed so Charles was never officially adopted by Thomas Wilson, but he raised him as his son.

Do you know Jane's mother's maiden name. I have no information at all about her.

William's parents were also William and Mary. They were married 24 May 1812. Her maiden name is Gibson. Place of marriage is St. Bees but I do not know where the marriage took place.

I do not know when Jane Jenkinson died.  The family was in the 1871 Census, but not the 1881 census.  Sometime between those two census, Thomas Wilson returned to Co. Armagh, in Ireland, where he was born in 1826.  He died in 1897 and the farm was left to his son Moses.  All Thomas's children were born in Cumberland.

I have records for most of the Wilson children and Charles Jenkinson.  One still eludes me.  In his will Thomas Wilson left an allowance to his daughter Elizabeth Ann.  I cannot find a birth record for Elizabeth Ann Wilson but she was obviously still alive in 1897 to be included in her father's will.

Until I saw the RootsWeb postings I was completely unaware of the "Todd" connection. 

If you are interested, I can have one of my grandchildren e-mail you a copy of the Thomas Wilson - Jane Jenkinson marriage certificate.  My technical competency is minimal.

Regards.

Roy French
Mississauga - Canada.
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Monday 27 July 15 11:30 BST (UK)
Hi Suz:

Wow, that is a lot of information for an 82 year old to absorb and dissect.  Little overwhelming but I will try to put it all in perspective.

You have confirmed my suspicion re William Todd having had a previous marriage.  Just have to figure out which Martha was his first wife.

I have William Jenkinson and Mary Gibson as Bridget and Jane's grandparents.  Her parents were also William and Mary but I don't yet have Mary's maiden name.

I am honestly a little confused with so much commonality in names.  Trying to figure it all out will the kind of challenge as therapy for mind accuity.  Beats crosswords.

Kind regards,

Roy French
Mississauga - Canada.

Hello Roy,

I will try to put the information in more order for you - that should make it easier .

I am (more than) a little excited today - our Great grandson put in an appearance at midnight !

Will be back later today

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Monday 27 July 15 16:31 BST (UK)
Congratulations Suz.

We have five great grandchildren and two just arrived from New Brunswick to spend a couple of weeks with the family in Ontario.

We are in the throes of an extended heat wave (almost 40C) so us old fogies have been alerted to stay indoors and keep hydrated.  Our daughter Kristen is taking the two young uns to Niagara Falls and a couple of water parks.   They don't seem to notice the heat.

Genealogy is great mind therapy for me.  I am not just a names and dates person.  It is extremely interesting to read the history behind the names and the local social conditions.

I was born and raised in Belfast, Ireland but emigrated to Canada in 1952.  Irish records are much more difficult but I am enjoying the challenge.

Kindest regards,

Roy French

Mississauga - Canada.
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 28 July 15 00:02 BST (UK)
Congratulations Suz.

Kindest regards,

Roy French

Mississauga - Canada.

Thank you -its always lovely to add a brand new family member to the tree

This may help piece things together

William Jenkinson was baptised Lamplugh Cumberland 4 Mar 1792 parents Joseph & Mary

William Jenkinson married 24 May 1812 St Bees Whitehaven Cumberland  to Mary Gibson

if you look up these places on Genuki you will see how close to each other they are and the churches in the area

1841 William & Mary Jenkinson are living next door to their daughter Martha (Jenkinson)(baptised 14 July 1816 and her husband William Todd -they married in 1840 (marriage reg Jun qtr 1840 on FreeBMD) They had a son Thomas with them.
William Todd & Martha had the following children :
Thomas Barnes Todd baptised 20 Sept 1840 died 22 mar 1855
William Todd c.1842 (baptism not found)
Mary Todd baptised 12 Jun 1842 died 5 Sept 1842
Mary Ann Todd baptised 14 Dec 1845
Elizabeth Todd b.c. 1849
Daniel Todd b.c.1845 baptised 29 Dec 1850 (parents given as William & Bridget -possibly as he was baptised after Martha had died)
Martha died 1849 death reg Dec qtr 1849.
William Todd remarried to Bridget Jenkinson ( his first wife Matha's sister)  It wasn't lawful to marry your wife's sister at that time -but lots did . The marriage to Bridget was registered Mar qtr 1850
Bridget and William had more children.

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Tuesday 28 July 15 00:27 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for this Suz.

Genealogy is an obsessive hobby.  Until this last week I  had no real interest in the Todd connection.

Then I saw Anthony's post.  The Todds are a logical extension to my Wilson-Jenkinson line.

If Anthony is reading this, perhaps he could advise the parents of the William Todd who married the Jenkinson girls.  In Family search there are two or three possible candidates.  Just want to be sure I pick the right ones.

Thank you all and

Kindest regards,

Roy French
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Tuesday 28 July 15 00:59 BST (UK)
Hi Roy,
Didn't know if you were interested in the Todd side but seeing that you are I will send you an invite
to look at my family tree
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Tuesday 28 July 15 05:17 BST (UK)
One for you Suzard.
How far back have you got on the Todd side of the Todd-Jenkinson family
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 28 July 15 11:18 BST (UK)
as far back as I have posted - the possibility of parents of William Jenknson being Joseph and Mary

I am not connected to this line -just helping out with look ups


I am just going to see what I can find on the Wilson /Jenkinson connection

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Tuesday 28 July 15 11:35 BST (UK)
Was wondering as you have quite a lot of information, some which I have been looking for,
and you have helped me out with that information
Thanks you
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 28 July 15 12:36 BST (UK)
Is there any information on this family you are still seeking ?

Suz
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Tuesday 28 July 15 13:34 BST (UK)
William Todd who married Martha then Bridget Jenkinson, His parents were Daniel Todd & Mary Barnes, was after any info you might have on their parents & siblings details I have are
Daniel Todd born: 4 Feb 1791 Hensingham, Cumberland died: 30 Dec 1851 Whitehaven.
Mary Barnes born: 1781 Whitehaven died: 18 may 1844 Hensingham.
Your help would be appreciated
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Tuesday 28 July 15 13:41 BST (UK)
I have tried all the avenues here in Tasmania and rely on good people like your self
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Wednesday 29 July 15 00:34 BST (UK)
Thank you guys!

Actually I took a chance and guessed Nathan & Elizabeth Todd would be my next starting point.  Hope to goodness I am correct.

Anthony, on Ancestry.ca I found a public  but it is not identified.  Goes all the way back to Nathan Todd in 1680, married to Elizabeth Jack.

I have not forgotten about the Wilson - Jenkinson marriage certificate.  Will do asap.

Kind regards.

Roy.
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Wednesday 29 July 15 00:49 BST (UK)
Just read Anthony's post re Daniel Todd and Mary Barnes.    Guess I picked the wrong horse.  Will have put the delete button on automatic.

Nathan Todd and Elizabeth Bolton coincidentally had a son William born in 1810 in Cockermouth.

Good lesson that even educated guesses in genealogy, without supporting documentation, is a no no.

Regards.

Roy

Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: Anjotod on Wednesday 29 July 15 02:26 BST (UK)
Yes Daniel Todd & Mary Barnes are Williams parents my sister done the search and has all the documents, hope to pick the paper work up when I go to New Zealand in Oct
Title: Re: Todd Family
Post by: roy french on Wednesday 29 July 15 15:09 BST (UK)
Thank you for the update Anthony.

Roy