RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: skjohnson on Tuesday 11 June 13 09:48 BST (UK)
-
I am trying to research the Chadwick & Crowe Family from London.
EMMA CHADWICK
Born: Bethnal Green, London, England 1855
Married: Thomas Henry Crowe, St Saviour, Southwark, London, 1876
Parents: Richard Chadwick & Caroline Short
Died: 27th April 1938, Residence “Chadwick”, Finlay Street, Frankston.
Buried: Springvale Crematorium, Victoria 28th April 1938
Migration: England to Australia aboard “Indrapura”, 1912, arrived 14th November 1912.
Emma worked as a Machinist in England. The 1911 England Census states that Emma had given birth to 15 Children, of which 7 had died. Thomas Crowe is listed as a Blacksmith. Daughters Lillian, Maud, Grace and Jessie are also listed as Machinist’s at a blouse factory.
Emma and daughters Charlotte, Lillian, Agnes, Laura, Grace and Maud came to Australia in 1912. Husband Thomas Crowe and her other children remained in England. It was said that Emma was tired of Thomas’s affairs with other Women. This did not stop Thomas writing of his sincere love for Emma. At the time of Emma’s death in 1938, three of her children had predeceased her, George, Edward and Ivy. She was survived by Emma May aged 60 years, Thomas Mitchell 58 years, Albert 56 years, Charlotte Ellen 55 years, Lillian Catherine 53 years, Agnes 47 years, Grace and Maude (twins) aged 44 and Laura Jessie aged 42 years. Emma was 83 years of age. The death certificates states that Edward, George and Ivy are dead. It is likely that the three unknown children had died during birth, as they were not registered.
The service was conducted by Rev. Veal of the Church of England.
Emma named her house in Finlay Street, Frankston, “Chadwick” after her Family name where she resided for the rest of her life.
Thomas Henry Crowe was born in Leiston, Suffolk, England in 1854, the Son of Edward Crowe and Maria Hill. His occupations are listed as Blacksmith and Machine Smith. Thomas remained in England when his wife and daughters came to Australia in 1912. At this stage his fate is unknown
-
Is this the family in 1871?
Richeson(?) Chadwick, 49, silk weaver
Caroline, 40 silk weaveress
Emma, 16, machinist
Caroline, 14, errand girl
Thomas, 12, silk winder
Robert, 9, scholar all born Middlesex
Ref: RG 10 piece 511, Folio 11 page 16
Best wishes
Maria
-
Thanks,
I think this is the Family. I have information on this family after their arrival in Australia. I have some photos of certain members but would love information of the Chadwick/Crowe family in England. Happy to share this information.
Thanks again
-
Have you got the christenings of the children?
All of parents Thomas and Emma Crowe:
Camberwell St Marks
32 march 1890
Albert bn 28 May 1881
Edward bn 20 Jan 1885
Lillian bn 14 Dec 1886
George Douglas bn 6 Dec 1888
Father Blacksmith, address 22 Brymer Road
And at Walworth All Saints
30 May 1894
Agnes bn 8 Dec 1890
Grace bn 9 Mar 1894
Maud bn 9 mar 1894
Father blacksmith, address 55 Longcroft Road
And also Walworth Saints
5 Aug 1896
Jessie bn 19 July 1896
21 Dec 1898
Ivy bn 6 Dec 1898
52 Longcroft Rd
-
1891 census reveals some older children and that Thomas Crowe was born Suffolk
50 Longcroft Rd
Thomas Crowe 37 blacksmith bn suffolk Lanotin?
Emma 36 bn Shoreditch
Thomas 12 bn Newington
Alfred 9 bn Newington
Ellen 8 bn Southwark
Lillian 6 bn Newington
Agnes ?mths bn Camberwell
-
Is this the family in 1871?
Richeson(?) Chadwick, 49, silk weaver
Caroline, 40 silk weaveress
Emma, 16, machinist
Caroline, 14, errand girl
Thomas, 12, silk winder
Robert, 9, scholar all born Middlesex
Ref: RG 10 piece 511, Folio 11 page 16
Best wishes
Maria
The 1876 marriage cert shows her father to be Richard Chadwick a carpenter.
-
One more child found in 1881
115 Union Road, Newington
Thomas 27 engine smith bn Leiston, Suffolk
Emma 26 bn bethnal green
Emma M 3 bn Chelmsford, Essex
Thomas M 2 bn Newington
-
I think this is his birth reg.
Thomas Henry Crow Jun 1/4 of 1854
District- Ipswich Suffolk
Volume 4a Page 372
-
If he remained in London area, then a couple of possibles for his deat:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1932 Edmonton - Thomas Crowe age 79
Oct/Nov/Dec 1918 Poplar - Thomas Crow age 64
You say he wrote to Emma after she emigrated - what is the date, and address, on last letter?
-
I was just going to post that Edmonton death too Liz ;D
He last appears for definite on the Electoral rolls in Edmonton in 1913.
Carol
-
Reading back over the first post, it seems you probably have a lot of the info we are finding, and going back have found the parents of Thomas (suffolk) and Emma too.
Apart from Thomas's death (that we are working on, but need to know where/when he wrote to Emma from), was there anything in particular you wanted help with? I feel otnerwise we are just going over what you have.
-
The only information that I can verify is that of the Crowe Family in Australia. A photo that I have suggests that Thomas Crowe is alive in 1928. A photo of Albert Crowe states that he died died 1st December 1901 (son of Thomas Crowe & Emmma Chadwick) Albert is alsolisted as being alive in 1938 (Emma Crow/Chadwick) death cert
Also have a photo of Thomas Mitchell Crowe who remained in England
-
What is it you are wanting help with?
Have you see the censuses? I assume you have, as you already know the birthplace and parents of Thomas and Emma. If not, do you want them? Remember 1881 is free to search
I am a bit confused by your latest post -Albert seems to die in 1901 and be alive in 1938!
Can you answer my question about Thomas's letters to Emma? Again, as you know the contents (claiming he still loved her) it appeas you have them or have seen them - so what is the date and did he give a home address? This will help in looking for his death - assming that is what you are wanting!
-
Let's set the whole family out in date order so we can make more sense of them.
Using our website FreeBMD there is no death of an Albert Crowe registered in the March 1/4 of 1902 that fits.
1881 census ...at 115 Union Road Newington.
Thomas Crowe 27 head Engone Smith b Leiston Suffolk
Emma Crowe 26 wife b Bethnal Green Middlesex
Emma M. Crowe 3 dau b Chelmsford Essex
Thomas M. Crowe 2 son b Newington Surrey
-
1891 census at 50 Longcroft? Road Camberwell
Thomas Crowe 37 head blacksmith b Leiston Suffolk
Emma Crowe 36 wife b Shoreditch London
Thomas Crowe 12 son scholar b Newington
Albert Crowe 9 son " "
Ellen Crowe 8 dau " b Southwark
Lilian Crowe 6 dau " b Newington
Agnes Crowe 4/12 dau b Camberwell
Oops sorry Liz,must have missed you finding the 1881 and 1891 censuses
-
Thomas (son) dies 1939 Edmonton
Ap/may/jun 1939
Edmonton 3a 746
Thomas Crowe age 60
And there is an entry in Probate index, but no Will:
Thomas Mitchell Crowe of 151 Westbury Ave Wood Green died 13 April 1939 at Prince of Wales general hospital tottenham, Admin granted 23 may 1939 to Rosa Crowe, widow
He married Rosa Hart, in Edmonton on 10 oct 1908 ....... but Banns say he was from Carlisle Cumberland!
That is of course, at time of marriage not where he was born.
-
And before I stop for lunch.....1901 at 52 Lincroft Road Camberwell.
Thomas Crowe 47
Emma Crowe 46
Albert Crowe 19
Ellen Crowe 18
Lilian Crowe 16
Agnes Crowe 10
Maud Crowe 6
Grace Crowe 6
Jessie Crowe 4
-
This is definately the family I am looking for
I have a photo:
Albert Crowe
Died 1st December 1901
Age: 21 years
But listed alive in 1938, Australia
-
This is definately the family I am looking for
What are you looking for?
Did you see the death for Thomas Mitcell I found? Or did you have that?
-
I dont have any death for Thomas Crowe. I have been searching for so long. How do you order them?
-
See reply #15 for details of Thomas Mitchell Crowes death (the son, who was age 2 in 1881)
If you want the actual death cert it can be ordered from www.gro.gov.uk, using the details I gave.
Any chance you can answer the questions I've been asking, so we know what else to look for?
-
This is definately the family I am looking for
I have a photo:
Albert Crowe
Died 1st December 1901
Age: 21 years
But listed alive in 1938, Australia
On census day on 31st march 1901 Albert was 19,so he's not the same chap who died a few months later if that one was 21.
Also I haven't found Emma Crowe and the kids going out to Oz in 1912 yet,do you have anymore info on that?
-
Right I've found Emma and 3 kids who travelled to Oz on the Indrapura arriving in Melbourne on 14th Nov 1912.
All listed just with their initials.
Mrs E Crowe b 1864
Miss G Crowe b 1894
Miss M Crowe b 1894
Miss J Crowe b 1896
-
This is definately the family I am looking for
I have a photo:
Albert Crowe
Died 1st December 1901
Age: 21 years
But listed alive in 1938, Australia
Ahh I have just realised what you are saying here- in Australia the death cert lists children that the person had and whether they are still alive or not.Presumably whoever registered Emma's detah said that Albert was still alive ,but you have a photo that says he died in 1901?
Although it may be that the name and date were added afterwards and were not correct,as there certainly isn't an Albert Crow/Crowe death in England that fits.
-
There's this one, Carol -
Oct/Nov/Dec 1901
York ref 9d 32
Albert Crowe
age 19
I reckon that must be him ?
Must have either moved to York, or happened to be in York when he died.
-
I looked at that one too,but the original poster said that he was 21 when he died?
-
Oh yes , missed that.
But our chap was only 19.
So whoever wrote it on the photo was wrong on either the date or the age.
If the age is right (21) then he cant have died in Dec 1901
If the date of death is right, then that York one might be him, but he was 19 not 21
If neither are right, them he could still be alive in 1938!
It would be so helpful to know if the op is wanting to trace these children forward, or the Chadwick and Crowe families back further than he/she has already found. Either way it would be helpful to know what he/she already has.
I started with the census of Thomas and Emma and children, but tben re-read the op and realised he/she had already got places of birth and parents for Thomas and emma, so thought I was probably repeating what was already found.
But I dont know!
-
I think she's in Oz,so hopefully will come back on later tonight-or early morning over there.
I've been looking at the latest census ;) too see if I can work out which Albert Crowe died in York in 1901,if he's not 'ours'. But can't pin a definite one down to Yorkshire.
-
Thank you very much everyone.
It feels that I am finally getting some where. All the information that I have is whats been posted. The death of Thomas Crowe I dont know anything about but will order the cert. Would love to research parents of Emma Chadwick (caroline short & Richard Chadwick) and Thomas Crowe (unsure of parents). Also any siblings of Thomas and Emma
-
George and Edward Crowe- sons of Thomas and Emma
Looking for their deaths. I know that they both died young.
I would like to trace the Crowe and Chadwick Families in England beyond Thomas & Emma.
Thanks again
-
Looking at son, Edward.
You know he was born Jan 1885 (see christening in Camberwell I found earlier)
He was still alive in March 1890, the date of the christening.
He is not with the family in either 1891 or 1901, the family still in Camberwell.
So, from freeBMD (you can search this for yourself, it is free), this looks a very likely death fr him :
Jul/Aug/Sep 1890
Camberwell ref 1d 550
Edward Crowe age 3
The age is not accurate, but we all know how easy it is to mistake a 5 for a 3!
Given all the other evidence I think this is a good possibility for his death, dont you?
-
Following a similar pattern for George -
He was born 1888, George Douglas
Was still alive in1890 at time of christening.
But never appears in later censuses with the family.
FreeBMD reveals this death -
Apr/May/Jun 1890
Camberwell ref 1d 514
George Douglas Crowe age 1
So, that is their deaths easily found!
If you are not familiar with freeBMD have a look at it, you can practice finding your way round by finding these 2 deaths!
-
Thank you.
I agree. I have a photo of Edward (Teddy) and George Crowe. No dates. I estimate that the ages could be 3 & 5 years
Thanks
Steve
-
If those ages are correct ,the deaths I found cant be the right ones then - as George died at about 18 months old.
But, especially with the middle name as extra evidence, I am pretty sure that they are the right deaths.
Maybe George looked old for his age in the photo - or maybe it is actually a photo of one of the other brothers and wrongly labelled?
-
Thanks. These deaths seem correct. I was thinking the same about the photos being wrongly marked. I have never researched certificate from England. Maybe it is Thomas & George Crowe?
-
I have another photo marked Kathleen Crowe? Could she be another daughter of Thomas Mitchell Crowe. To many photos unmarked
-
Cant see a birth of any Kathleen Crowe with mothers maiden name Hart.
-
Thanks again, I dont know anything about England
I have a photo, that says
This was Aaben on the Thames at Richmond 1928
Connie, myself, a friend, Dorothy, Brenda, Kathleen, a friend & Muriel
I assume that the person who sent the leter is Thomas Mitchell Crowe who sent the photo
-
Dorothy, Kathleen, Muriel and Brenda are all daughters of Thomas Mitchel Crowe and Rosa Hart. Brenda was my late mother in law.
-
Thanks Carol,
Thank you for the information. i have a few photos of the Crowe family, I think one may be the wedding of Thomas Mitchell Crowe. Also photos of his brothers and sisters. Any information would be much appreciated. Do you know what happened to Thomas Crowe senior? Most of my information is on the Crowe family since they arrived in Australia. Let me know if you need any information or copies of photos.
Regards Steve
-
Hello Carol and welcome to Rootschat.
You will need to make 3 postings here before you can exchange personal messages with Steve.
Regards
Carol (another one!)
-
Steve,
One of my family sources tells me that Thomas senior used to drink a bottle of whisky a day thats why Emma emigrated to Australia because she couldn't stand his drinking. He worked at Enfield Small Arms factory. I believe(not verified) that he died in Edmonton workhouse.
Emma supposedly built her own house in Australia at the age of 60, thats why Rosa and her daughters( including my mother in law )went to Australia because their relatives were there.
Hope this helps, will have to go through what I have with a fine tooth comb. But anything you have including photos would be good.
Thanks Carol.
-
Hi Carol,
Emma called her house "Chadwick". I was told that Emma left Thomas Crowe because of his fondness of other women. The drinking would not have helped. I had an uncle that that stayed with Rosa? when he was in the army.
My Grandmother was Grace Crowe, Thomas Mitchell's sister. I think a photo I have is Thomas Mitchell's wedding. Also have a photo of twins Grace & Maud Crowe. Also other siblings. There seem to be a few of Thomas Mitchell Crowe. One photo is Grace, Maud, Jess (I think maybe with parents)
I have a lot of information on the family in Australia, but little in England. Glad to send you any information
Regards Steve
-
I think this is right, I cannot find anything on Kathleen Crowe
Thomas Mitchell Crowe
Born: December 1878, Newington, Surrey, England
Married: Rosa Hart, 4th October 1908, All Saints, Edmonton, England
Died: 13th April 1939, Prince Wales Hospital, Edmonton, England
Children of Thomas Mitchell Crowe & Rosa Hart
(1) Muriel Rosa Ethel Crowe
Born: September 1910, St Cuthberts Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Married: Edwin Charles Ernest Cobden, 1936 Edmonton, Middlesex
Died: 1996,Wantage, Berkshire, England
(2) Dorothy E Crowe
Born: 1912, Edmonton, Middlesex, England
Married:
Died:
(3) Brenda Olive Crowe
Born: 31st July 1913, Edmonton, Middlesex, England
Married: William John Halligan, 1940 Amersham, Buckinghamshire
Died: 2004, aged 91 years, Kent, England,
(4) Kathleen Crowe
-
Hi,
I can fill in a few gaps for you.
Kathleen Agnes Crowe born 10 Nov 1914 Edmonton Middlesex. Kathleen never married. Work for the civil service.
Dorothy married Frederick Borrowdale Dec 1943 in Wetherby. Had one daughter. Only Remember Dorothy with dog kennels.
Muriel married Edwin Cobden in 1936 Edmonton Middlesex. Had son and daughter. Muriel schoolteacher then a headmistress.
Brenda had 3 sons and a daughter( one of the sons and the daughter are twins). Brenda clerical worker, I believe she worked for Post Office when young. She also represented Great Britain in the 1936 Berlin Olympics in rythmatic gymnastics as an exhibition sport, did get a medal. Her Olympic stuff was stolen in a burglary. Do remember seeing her medal.
Her son Robert to whom I was married to for six years and had 2 children with died in the WTC disaster.
Best Wishes
Carol.
-
Thanks Carol,
I hope that you got my message
Look forward fron hearing from you
Steve
-
Hi,
I have marriage cert of Edward Daniel Crowe to Maria Hill. Both 24.Married at Theberton church Blything Suffolk on Dec 9th 1851. Edward a Blacksmith. The marriage cert is muddled over the fathers. It has Edwards father as Hammond Hill a gardener and Maria's father as Daniel Crowe. I wrote to G.R.O to identify the error, had reply thanking me but the Waveney Record Office in Suffolk confirmed the entry in their records, so mistake must have been made at the time of registering so it cannot be altered.
Also have death certs for Edward Daniel Crowe who died 18th Aug 1910 aged 84 died from senile decay in Stratford West Ham London. Informant married daughter.
Maria died 10 oct 1906 aged 79 years she also died from senile decay and gastritis in Forest gate West Ham London. Informant as before.
My sister in law asked me to find out where the middle name Mitchell comes from as her twin brother also has it as his middle name but not come across any ancestor with that name as yet, anyone else able to help.
Carol.