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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: hoolianama0508 on Friday 07 June 13 23:29 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me if the occupation of Engineer was ever used in place of something else? For example, builder?
The supposed father of my great-grandmother was listed on her marriage certificate as an "engineer." Here are the reasons I doubt this was true:
1) she was illegitimate - his name is not on her birth certificate
2) her mother was a "cartridge filler" - doubt she would have socialized with an engineer.
3) I have not been able to find him anywhere.
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A civil engineer is involved in building. Although anyone could be called an engineer.
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A lot of children who were illegitimate made up the names and occupations of their fathers on their marriage certificates so that it looked respectable. She may have just done this and said engineer as it sounded good.
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On the railways were the Engineers and Firemen who operated steam locomotives. Their Union ASLEF is still in existence. Other people would be "mechanics" and "fitters" who could eventually call themselves engineers, or could be called "engineers" on their children's marriage certificates.
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Thanks for the responses. I will keep checking. I will check the railway since ironically she was born at 11 Railway Street!
It also could be a totally made up name.
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The term "engineer" for a engine driver on the railway is American. In the UK it is usually train driver.
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Not necessarily the railways. Anyone who operated or maintained any sort of machinery (or 'engine') might call themselves an engineer.
http://www.census1891.com/occupations-e.htm
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If you have access to digitised newspapers for the era and the district you could try searching for instances of the word "engineer" ....
Here's an example from digitised newspapers published in New South Wales, Australia where the word "engineer" is used. The NSW newspaper (The Empire, of 10 June 1860) is quoting from The London TIMES ;D of April 17th, 1860 ;D
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60411967
Cheers, JM
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My grt grandad worked in the weaving/spinning mills (from childhood) in Yorkshire and elder family used to describe him as "a loom engineer" , i think it was probably a word used to describe a power loom mechanic: :) .
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There is someone in my husbands tree described as an "engineer" on his marriage cert., family say he stoked the boilers at the local hospital ;D
Suey
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I have a person described as an accountant at his daughters marriage in the parish records, he was a bookies runner.
Engineer covers a wide range, and at times people would say engineer rather than something that sounded more mundane, that's apart from the outright lie's.Some countries have more regulation over the term than others and of course some countries have different meanings for the same words, albeit they are English speaking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_engineering
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The bookies runner calling himself an Accountant is stretching things a bit but a Turf Accountant is a bookmaker licensed to take bets on horse races.
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And then you've got ships' engineers, who did not necessarily have a university degree, were maybe a boilermaker in shore life.
??? ??? ???
Dawn M
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Probably not boiler makers, more likely fitter/machinist
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The bookies runner calling himself an Accountant is stretching things a bit but a Turf Accountant is a bookmaker licensed to take bets on horse races.
Like poster youngtug , i have a relative who was definately a bookies runner (a grt grandads brother in Birmingham) and he described himself as an "accountant" too
. Have also seen more than one criminal record were the convict has the occupation "clerk" . Two distant "cousins" on completey different branches are described as "clerks" in criminal records . One is covered in tattoos and the other one has scars that are probably from knife fights (thumb , ear ect) . There are also mugshots of them looking nothing like "clerks" at all !!! :) (this was in Australian mugshots after they had emmigrated from England late 1800s)
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The bookies runner calling himself an Accountant is stretching things a bit but a Turf Accountant is a bookmaker licensed to take bets on horse races.
Not a turf accountant although he kept several in employment over the years
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Engineer is still a very misused term.
The records of the Institute of Civil Engineers and Institute of Mechanical Engineers up to 1930 are on Ancestry.
Regards
David (C.Eng, MIMechE)
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I don't think that a ships engineer would be a man of letters, shouting Jock down the engine room hatch usually got a response, and was usually qualification enough ;D
A boilerman/stoker might sometimes have assisted the engineers, who would have served their time as fitters or millwrights.
Skoosh.
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My grandmother, on her 1912 marriage certificate to grandfather, described her father's trade/occupation as "Engineer"; when, in fact, he happened to be a gas stoker at the time of her marriage. He worked with an engine alright, but one that pumped 'town gas' to the locals.
"Cartridge filler" to me, says armaments factory; could the gent concerned be a lathe-worker(?)
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Thanks for responding. I still haven't found the mysterious "engineer." Perhaps he worked at the armament factory as well. Perhaps if I can research where the arms factory might have been located, it might reveal more clues.
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Not many people in those early days when your grandmother was born would have gone to university to learn the trade of engineer. His family would have paid for his apprenticeship, which would have lasted 5 years minimum. It's reasonable for anyone working in an armaments factory filling cartridges to have come into contact with engineers on the workshop floor, whether they were mechanical engineers, turners, fitters, etc. Boilermakers in the engineering trade usually thought themselves as the cream of the crop.
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While searching for the arms factory, I found an article about an ink factory in Highbury that had its own railway line.
http://www.highburycommunity.org/hca_news62.pdf
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My 4g grandfather on census and children's marriage certificates was given the occupation of engineer, machinist, and mechanic and several of his sons had the same occupations.
Liz
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While searching for the arms factory, I found an article about an ink factory in Highbury that had its own railway line.
http://www.highburycommunity.org/hca_news62.pdf
I was born & bred in Hull which was criss crossed with railway lines. Most large factories built their own railway sidings on their own land to join up with the local privately owned large rail network. I should think it likely that a factory manufacturing heavy armaments would possibly have their own wagons and railway lines aswell.