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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: hoolianama0508 on Friday 07 June 13 23:29 BST (UK)

Title: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: hoolianama0508 on Friday 07 June 13 23:29 BST (UK)
Can anyone tell me if the occupation of Engineer was ever used in place of something else?  For example, builder?

The supposed father of my great-grandmother was listed on her marriage certificate as an "engineer." Here are the reasons I doubt this was true:

1) she was illegitimate - his name is not on her birth certificate
2) her mother was a "cartridge filler"  - doubt she would have socialized with an engineer.
3) I have not been able to find him anywhere.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: youngtug on Friday 07 June 13 23:41 BST (UK)
A civil engineer is involved in building. Although anyone could be called an engineer.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: groom on Friday 07 June 13 23:57 BST (UK)
A lot of children who were illegitimate made up the names and occupations of their fathers on their marriage certificates so that it looked respectable. She may have just done this and said engineer as it sounded good. 
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: barryd on Saturday 08 June 13 01:00 BST (UK)
On the railways were the Engineers and Firemen who operated steam locomotives. Their  Union ASLEF is still in existence. Other people would be "mechanics" and "fitters" who could eventually call themselves engineers, or could be called "engineers" on their children's marriage certificates.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: hoolianama0508 on Saturday 08 June 13 04:03 BST (UK)
Thanks for the responses. I will keep checking. I will check the railway since ironically she was born at 11 Railway Street!

It also could be a totally made up name.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: youngtug on Saturday 08 June 13 09:09 BST (UK)
The term "engineer" for a engine driver on the railway is American. In the UK it is usually train driver.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: Bookbox on Saturday 08 June 13 10:18 BST (UK)
Not necessarily the railways. Anyone who operated or maintained any sort of machinery (or 'engine') might call themselves an engineer.

http://www.census1891.com/occupations-e.htm
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: majm on Saturday 08 June 13 10:53 BST (UK)
If you have access to digitised newspapers for the era and the district you could try searching for instances of the word "engineer" ....

Here's an example from digitised newspapers published in New South Wales, Australia where the word "engineer" is used.  The NSW newspaper (The Empire, of 10 June 1860) is quoting from The London TIMES  ;D of April 17th, 1860  ;D

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60411967

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 08 June 13 10:53 BST (UK)
My grt grandad worked in the weaving/spinning mills  (from childhood) in Yorkshire  and elder family used to describe him as "a loom engineer" , i think it was probably  a word used to describe a power loom mechanic: :)   .
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: suey on Saturday 08 June 13 10:58 BST (UK)

There is someone in my husbands tree described as an "engineer" on his marriage cert., family say he stoked the boilers at the local hospital  ;D

Suey
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: youngtug on Saturday 08 June 13 11:27 BST (UK)
I have a person described as an accountant at his daughters marriage in the parish records, he was a bookies runner.

Engineer  covers a wide range, and at times people would say engineer rather than something that sounded more mundane, that's apart from the outright lie's.Some countries have more regulation over the term than others and of course some countries have different meanings for the same words, albeit they are English speaking.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_engineering
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: barryd on Saturday 08 June 13 12:30 BST (UK)
The bookies runner calling himself an Accountant is stretching things a bit but a Turf Accountant is a  bookmaker licensed to take bets on horse races.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 08 June 13 12:34 BST (UK)
And then you've got ships' engineers, who did not necessarily have a university degree, were maybe a boilermaker in shore life.

??? ??? ???

Dawn M
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: youngtug on Saturday 08 June 13 12:55 BST (UK)
Probably not boiler makers, more likely fitter/machinist
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 08 June 13 12:56 BST (UK)
The bookies runner calling himself an Accountant is stretching things a bit but a Turf Accountant is a  bookmaker licensed to take bets on horse races.

Like poster youngtug , i have a  relative who was definately  a bookies runner (a grt grandads brother in Birmingham) and  he described himself as an "accountant" too
. Have also seen more than one criminal record were the convict has the occupation "clerk" . Two distant  "cousins" on completey different branches are described as "clerks" in criminal records  . One is covered in tattoos and the other one has  scars that are probably from knife fights (thumb , ear ect)  . There are also mugshots of them looking nothing  like "clerks" at all !!! :)   (this was in Australian mugshots after they had emmigrated from England late 1800s)
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: youngtug on Saturday 08 June 13 12:58 BST (UK)
The bookies runner calling himself an Accountant is stretching things a bit but a Turf Accountant is a  bookmaker licensed to take bets on horse races.
Not a turf accountant although he kept several in employment over the years
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: DaveFH13 on Wednesday 31 July 13 22:52 BST (UK)
Engineer is still a very misused term.
The records of the Institute of Civil Engineers and Institute of Mechanical Engineers up to 1930 are on Ancestry.

Regards

David (C.Eng, MIMechE)
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: Skoosh on Wednesday 31 July 13 23:07 BST (UK)
I don't think that a ships engineer would be a man of letters, shouting Jock down the engine room hatch usually got a response, and was usually qualification enough  ;D
A boilerman/stoker might sometimes have assisted the engineers, who would have served their time as fitters or millwrights.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: known_unknowns on Saturday 03 August 13 11:48 BST (UK)
My grandmother, on her 1912 marriage certificate to grandfather, described her father's trade/occupation as "Engineer"; when, in fact, he happened to be a gas stoker at the time of her marriage. He worked with an engine alright, but one that pumped 'town gas' to the locals.

"Cartridge filler" to me, says armaments factory; could the gent concerned be a lathe-worker(?)
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: hoolianama0508 on Saturday 03 August 13 16:36 BST (UK)
Thanks for responding. I still haven't found the mysterious "engineer."  Perhaps he worked at the armament factory as well. Perhaps if I can research where the arms factory might have been located, it might reveal more clues.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: Rena on Saturday 03 August 13 16:53 BST (UK)
Not many people in those early days when your grandmother was born would have gone to university to learn the trade of engineer.  His family would have paid for his apprenticeship, which would have lasted 5 years minimum.   It's reasonable for anyone working in an armaments factory filling cartridges to have come into contact with engineers on the workshop floor, whether they were mechanical engineers, turners, fitters, etc.  Boilermakers in the engineering trade usually thought themselves as the cream of the crop.
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: hoolianama0508 on Saturday 03 August 13 17:00 BST (UK)
While searching for the arms factory, I found an article about an ink factory in Highbury that had its own railway line.

http://www.highburycommunity.org/hca_news62.pdf
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: g eli on Saturday 03 August 13 18:58 BST (UK)
My 4g grandfather on census and children's marriage certificates was given the occupation of engineer, machinist, and mechanic and several of his sons had the same occupations.
Liz
Title: Re: Engineer: true or false?
Post by: Rena on Saturday 03 August 13 19:06 BST (UK)
While searching for the arms factory, I found an article about an ink factory in Highbury that had its own railway line.

http://www.highburycommunity.org/hca_news62.pdf

I was born & bred in Hull which was criss crossed with railway lines.  Most large factories built their own railway sidings on their own land to join up with the local privately owned large rail network.  I should think it likely that a factory manufacturing heavy armaments would possibly have their own wagons and railway lines aswell.