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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Marg S on Friday 07 June 13 13:08 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
My gg. grandmother, Irish Potato Famine Orphan, Elizabeth KENNY b. 1834 Moydow, County Longford, arrived in Sydney 1850 on ship Tippoo Saib with her sister Bridget b. 1832.
Elizabeth married my gg. grandfather, Irish convict, Hugh McGRILLIS 1853 in Sydney.
According to QLD BDM's Hugh & Elizabeth had 4 daughters - Mary b. 1855, Margaret Grace b. 1856, Ann Elizabeth b. 1858 (my g. grandmother) and Jane b. 1860.
I have been able to trace Margaret Grace (m. James GORDON 1874 Bowen, QLD) and Ann Elizabeth (m. George SCARSBROOK 1878 Sydney, NSW) and have found Hugh's death in 1884 Rockhampton (he was widowed).
According to Trove, SMH 1859 - Elizabeth placed an ad looking for her sister Bridget KENNY who was supposed to be married and living in Sydney.
I would greatly appreciate your help in finding any info on - Bridget, Mary, Jane and also the death of my gg. grandmother Elizabeth.
Many thanks,
Marg S
Sydney, Australia
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Hi Marg,
Just adding that the stated parents on the immigration record for Elizabeth and Bridget are William and Ann. May help with finding their deaths.
Debra :)
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Hi,
I wonder if this is Bridget:
V1854648 81/1854
MCCULLOUGH John
KENNEY Bridget
QC
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistory.htm
Leanne
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It seems Bridget died in 1898. There are two registrations ?
4526/1898 BRIDGET B MCCULLOUGH FATHER UNKNOWN MOTHER UNKNOWN AT ANNANDALE
5821/1898 Also this registration at LEICHHARDT.
Bridget and John had a number of children around the inner city area & Goulburn.
Neil
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Funeral notice for Bridget McCullough 1898 22 April
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article14137475
THE Friends of the late Mrs. BRIDGET McCULLOUGH, widow of the late John McCullough (late
of Goulburn), are kindly invited to attend her Funeral ; to
move from her son-in-law's residence, 68 Young-street,
Annandale, THIS (Friday) AFTERNOON, at 1.45, for
Necropolis.
regards,
Ros
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Marg can i ask where you got the information from that Hugh died in 1884 please.
The only death i can find in 1884 is
1884/C4853 John McGrillis - - ** born Ireland aged 68
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This appears to be death of Husband of Bridget.
JOHN A MCCULLOUGH FATHER DANIEL MOTHER MARY AT COOTAMUNDRA Ref # 21953/1889
Neil
PS There are a few odd birth occurences for a couples by the names of John and Bridget. I am wondering if there were more than one couple?
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Do you have Hugh/Johns's death certificate?
If you know Hugh/John died in Rockhampton have you tried contacting the cemetery to see if he is buried with Elizabeth?
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John MCGILLIS is buried at South Rockhampton cemetery. No sign of Elizabeth there.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0uhi/
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I don't know who has this wrong but ::)
Death Hugh McGuiness Ref # 1878/C789 Father Hugh Mother Harriet
Neil ???
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I am just so confused ??? How did Hugh become John ???
Birth
4547/1856 MCGRILLIS GRACE HUGH ELIZABETH GAYNDAH
Marrige
1874/C14 Gordon James McGrillis Margaret
Death
1895/C134 Grace Gordon John McGrilles Elizabeth
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Umm, illiterate people just say their name and sign with an X marks the spot. They dunno what was written down for their name.
No more confused than me ::) ??? :o
Neil :'( :P
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Could there be another family or is the same one :-X
Sarah M Mccullough (1866 - 1877)
Born in Goulburn, New South Wales, Australia on 1866 to John McCullough and Bridget Britelia Carroll. She passed away on 1877 in Goulburn, New South Wales, Australia.
::) neil
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He was a Hugh when the kids were born ??? And John on their death indexes. This name change from Hugh to John is really bugging me ::)
nsw birth index
V18553051 72/1855 MCGRELLIS MARY HUGH ELIZABETH
4547/1856 MCGRILLIS GRACE HUGH ELIZABETH GAYNDAH
6591/1858 MACGILLISS ANN HUGH ELIZABETH DALBY
qld birth index
1860/C736 Jane McGillis Hugh Elisabeth Kenny
Marg where did the second names come from just their birth index and/or marriage index dont indicate other names ???
Re , Margaret Grace b. 1856, Ann Elizabeth b. 1858 (my g. grandmother)
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On this other forum Marg refers to him as Hugh aka John ...
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-QLD/2007-11/1195982319
regards,
Ros
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I may be just an old bloke but I have never heard of the IRISH name of mcgrillis,
Maguilis yes, Maguillies yes, McGuiness yes, McInnes, yes. Oh other than those, probably misspelt one's that is.
Neil ???
Oh yeh the new Qld Bdm >:(
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Thank you Neil, Ros, Giblet, Merlin, Leanne & Debra for your thoughts and replies. I will try to answer all your queries :)
It seems that there is confusion about names which is what I have found with just about every ancestor I have researched so it is nothing new to me ???.
He is definitely Hugh McGRILLIS as according to his Convict Indent he had tattoos which said "INH HMC" and "Hugh MCGRILLIS 81(something that looks like a back to front '3') 6" plus a cross and a anchor. Heavens knows what the numbers mean?? Any ideas??
As you can see from various BDM records their names were also John McGILLIS/McGRELLIS/McGILLISS etc and Eliz(s)abeth KENNEY/KENNY/KINNEY. All my info and second names are have from certificates and records.
The death cert for John MCGRILLIS 1884 has the correct age and that he was born in Ireland so I feel quite sure I have the right guy especially considering that I think he was the only McGRILLIS in Qld at the time.
It is a good idea to contact South Rockhampton Cemetery to see if Elizabeth is buried there. Thanks for that thought. Common sense really but as it seems to happen with me, when I am in the thick of it, I tend to miss simple things that are staring me in the face. I suppose that is why people post queries to get others thoughts :)
The marriage cert for Hugh and Elizabeth states they both signed their name with an "X" so with them both being illiterate and an Irish accent, no wonder we are finding so many different spellings ??? It is interesting that Bridget was not a witness on her sisters marriage cert.
With regards to Bridget marrying John McCullough, the info seems to fit but I will search for a link to be sure.
Neil Todd could you please tell me where you found the info on Sarah McCullough "Sarah M Mccullough (1866 - 1877). Born in Goulburn, New South Wales, Australia on 1866 to John McCullough and Bridget Britelia Carroll. She passed away on 1877 in Goulburn, New South Wales, Australia." I cant find the exact info mentioning "Britelia Carrol" on NSW BDM. This could be the contributing factor in figuring if there are more than one marriage of a John McCullough and Bridget especially if "Carrol" is a surname.
Gee, I didn't realise that I posted about Hugh & Bridget back in 2007. Goes to show just how long these elusive ancestors of mind take to track down :-X
Any more thoughts would be appreciated,
Many thanks,
Marg S
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hi Marg, under is what I found googling "McCullough Family Goulburn"
http://records.ancestry.com/Sarah_M_Mccullough_records.ashx?pid=202827554
Not sure if ther was two families as there seem to be births in Sydney and in Goulburn same year. ???
But it is a strange coincidence.
Neil
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In one of my earlier posts I had two registrations for Bridget, now I look again it looks as if there actually two deaths same year same name. Bridget B and Bridget. Obviously Bridget B is the one originally married to a John McCullough and lived in Goulburn. This is very strange :o
Neil
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Thanks for your continued help Neil.
I checked out the link and it seems that Bridget Britelia's surname was CARROL and according to the McCullough Family Tree she is also the one that died 1898 so rules her out.
So I wonder what happened to the Bridget KENNY that married John McCullough in 1854 Sydney? Confusion reigns :-X
According to NSW BDM, as I you already mentioned, there seems to be 2 John & Bridget McCULLOUCH families, one in Sydney and the other in Goulburn. By what we have discovered, the Goulburn family is John McCULLOUGH and Bridget Britelia CARROL so we can cross them off the list. Thanks for info Neil.
I will try and find info on the Sydney family.
Marg
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Well that does leave the other Bridget McCullough died same year at Leichardt. ???
There are quite a few deaths of John McCullough's some much earlier than her, which means a possible remarriage? Having looked I cannot find one that stands out. She could remarry under Kenny or McCullough
Neil
.
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1876 Electoral Roll QLD:
McGRILLES John
Electoral District: Dalby
Qualification: Residence
Residence: Cumkillenbar
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Hi,
FamilySearch
Mary Mcgrellis
Bapt: 17th March 1855, Ipswich, Stanley, Australia.
F: Hugh McGrellis
M: Elizabeth Kenny
Gerry
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Unclaimed letter for John McGrillis, Rockhampton 1862:
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/79977085
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Couple of references to a John McGrillis Intestate in the Qld Government Gazette 1885 which I'll try and check out.
10th Jan 1885, Rockhampton, John McGrillis, page 149.
12 Sept 1885, Rockhampton, John McGrillis, page 936.
Unclaimed letters for John McGrillis, address, Walloon Qld, 12th April 1862.
and J McGrillis, address, Langton Qld, 11th October 1873.
Gerry
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Do you have a copy of his Intestacy files from QSA?
There are notices of Intestacies & Wills appearing in the QLD Gvt Gazettes:
McGRILLIS John
Residence: Rockhampton
Type: Intestacy
Court: Brisbane
Date: 10 Jan 1885
Page: 149
http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/eserv/UQ:240649/Queensland_Gov_Gazette_1885_v36.pdf&bookreader=true
McGRILLIS John
Residence: Rockhampton
Type: Intestacy
Court: Brisbane
Date: 12 Sep 1885
Page: 936
http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/eserv/UQ:240650/Queensland_Gov_Gazette_1885_v37.pdf&bookreader=true
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Marg, do you have the death certificate for John McGrillis 1884? If so who was the informant of death noted on it?
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This name change from Hugh to John is still bugging me :-[
1860/C736 Jane McGillis Hugh Elisabeth Kenny ----- birth of last child
Unclaimed letter for John McGrillis, Rockhampton 1862 ----
So he must have changed from Hugh to John between 1860 and 1862 ???
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Thanks everyone for all the lookups and info. You are all soooo amazingly helpful :D
The informant on Hugh/John's death cert was Timothy Cranby, landlord of the house in which he died - William St, Rockhampton. So unfortunately no clues there >:(
Sadly it seems like he died with no family around him. Cause of death - old age, debility, and alcoholism.
Would love to find what happened to his daughters - Mary b. 1855 and Jane b. 1860 and his wife Elizabeth.
Can someone tell me if it is possible that they died and their deaths were not recorded?
Thanks,
Marg
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Marg,
It sounds like you have a copy or transcription of Hugh & Elizabeth's marriage certificate in 1853. I was in at the Qld Family History Society today and while I was there had a look on the early church microfilms for the marriage but I couldn't find it but they are difficult films to use. If you have got a copy could you please let me know what identification numbers were on the document as I would like to find it plus he sister's marriage.
I also did a global search on the Qld Government Gazettes and Police Gazettes but nothing new popped up apart from more unclaimed letters at Tambo in October 1879 and Rockhampton after his death. Hugh/John moved around a fair bit including Ipswich, Gayndah, Walloon, Langton, Tambo & Rockhampton plus probably other places. I'm surprised we can't find a death registration for his wife maybe she is buried at one of the locations mentioned above.
30% of male convicts in the 1830s arrived with tattoos.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
Thanks for your generous offer.
NSW Marriage details for Elizabeth Kenney and Hugh Mcgrillis are -
V1853579 99/1853
The (proposed) NSW marriage details for Bridget Kenney and John McCullough are -
V1854648 81/1854
The (proposed) NSW death details for Bridget McCullough are -
5821/1898
I wonder what drew Hugh & Elizabeth to Qld from Sydney, it was such a long way back then. Do you have any ideas?
Interestingly, their daughter Anne b. 1858 Qld, married 1878 in Sydney at the age of 19 and had to be given approval from the Guardian of Minors. Both her parents were mentioned in the marriage details so I assume Elizabeth was alive then. Therefore she must have died between 1878 and 1884 as Hugh/John died as a widower.
Your help is much appreciated,
Marg
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Marg,
There were 2 Bridget Kenny marriages around the 1850s
Bridget Kenney & John McCullough on 31st January 1854 in the Presbyterian Church of Scotland Scots Church Sydney.
Bridget Kenny & Joseph Ward on 14th August 1850 at St Mary's Roman Catholic Church Sydney.
For this marriage Bridget would have only been off the ship a couple of weeks, but it was the same Church as her sister's wedding later on,
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
Thanks so much for not giving up. Greatly appreciate it.
I had the same thoughts that Bridget might marry in the Roman Catholic church that was where Bridget's sister Elizabeth married in 1853 but there is nothing that matches her.
I have thought it through and think Bridget might have married after her sister moved to QLD, otherwise Elizabeth would have known her married name and not addressed her ad in the SMH to Bridget KENNY.
I have checked out all Bridget KENNY marriages and corresponding deaths on NSW BDM with Trove and Ancestry and seem to have discounted all except for the following -
** Marriage - V1854648 81/1854 MCCULLOUGH JOHN KENNEY BRIDGET QC - Presbyterian Sydney, Scots Church (Pitt Street) - 31 January 1854, date courtesy Gerry, Rootschat
*** Death - 5821/1898 MCCULLOUGH BRIDGET UNKNOWN UNKNOWN LEICHHARDT
The only way to sort it is to apply for a transcription of the marriage and see what it reveals. Fingers crossed.
Many thanks,
Marg
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Marg,
I have copy of that Kenney/McCullough marriage from the Parish Microfilm record that I could email you if you PM me your email address. The Queensland State Library hold the films.
Gerry
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Thanks Gerry.
I have sent my email via PM
Marg
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Marg,
Sent the email, please let me know if they arrive ok.
Gerry
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Hi All,
Would anyone know of Hugh and John's birthplace or perhaps their port of departure. I believe from the little information available that McGrillis seemed to appeared most common to Northern Ireland around your time frame. So orgins would be useful, particularity when names are so mispelt.
Also,somewhere along the track I saw something indicating Hugh McGrillis departing to the US and John living his life out in Australia. Not completely 100% on this.
I am researching orgins and birthplaces of mispelt McGrillis/McCrillis/McCrellis/McGrellis/McGrailis/McGreles McGreallis etc etc and etc
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Hello Quoka,
Hugh and John McGRILLIS are the same person. In his convict & marriage info his name is Hugh but in later records he is John.
Hugh/John is my gg. grandfather. He was born in Belfast and died in Rockhampton, Queensland. His cert. of freedom states that in 1849 he sailed to California, maybe for the gold rush but was back in Sydney in 1853 where he married my gg. grandmother Elizabeth KENNY.
Please let me know I you discover anything about him or his family.
Hope this helps,
Marg S
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Hi Marg S,
Thank u for your reply regards to John alias Hugh McGrillis orgins as being Belast, Antrim.
I am researching early pre-1900s, mispelt McGrillis/McCrillis/McCrellis/McGrellis/McGrailis/McGreles McGreallis etc etc and etc orginating within a smaller townland of Derry.
My grandfather- George McGrellis-Ire/Liverpool UK/West Australia
Thank you again for reply anyway,
Regards quoka