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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Norman Dunn on Thursday 06 June 13 09:34 BST (UK)
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I have been trying to find out about my great uncle Alexander Nicol Dunn in WW1. We were told he won a Military Medal possibly in the Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders. I've managed to find a scant record of a Pte Alexander Dunn with service number 9079. Is there any way that number can be checked to see if it is Alexander Nicol Dunn?
He was born in Old Kilpatrick & lived in Church Place pre ww1.
THANK YOU,
Norman Dunn
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I think it's quite likely that 9079 IS your man...
The Medal Card of 9079 Pte Alexander Dunn, 2nd Bn A&SH, shows that he was discharged on 12/1/1916 according to King's Regulations Para.392 Subpara.xxi (i.e."on the termination of his period of engagement").
FindMyPast has the Militia attestation of one Alexander Dunn of Old Kilpatrick, born c.1884, son of John of Scots Land (in 1902, which I think matches the 1901 census, if I've got the right fellow?)
He enlisted in the 4th (Extra Reserve/Militia) Bn A&SH on 13/1/1902, but transferred "To Arg.&Suthd.Hrs." (i.e. to a Regular battalion) a year later on 13/1/03, and the number 9079 is consistent with a regular enlistment in Jan. 1903 (no.9076 William Stewart joined 2/A&SH from the Black Watch Militia on 9/1/03; and he too was discharged time expired on 8.1.16).
His period of engagement with the Regulars would be 12 years - normally 7 with the colours plus 5 in Reserve, so Alexander would have been transferred to the Reserve (sent home but liable for callup) on 12/1/10, and his 12 years would have expired on 12/1/15 if there hadn't been a war!
On the outbreak of war he would have been called up, and his total service period extended for one year, taking us to 12/1/16 (the date on the MIC), after which he would have to be discharged.
The card does seem to match your man!
Adrian
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Hi Adrian
I have been trying to help Norman with his research into Alexander.Can you tell me what Medals Alexander would qualify for, Victory Medal,British War Medal anything else.Thanks in advance. Colin.
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9079 Pte Dunn qualified for the Victory Medal, the British War Medal and the 1914 ("Mons") Star with Clasp & Roses, meaning that he came within range of enemy artillery (at least) in the period 5/8/14 to 22/11/1914. The card indicates that he had landed in France on 10 Aug 1914.
Adrian
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Thanks Adrian that is great,Norman will be on at some stage to thank you himself.I did wonder if he would have the Mons Star but we were not certain although Norman did say about the clasp and roses.Thank you once again.
Colin.
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Dear Adrian,
Thank you for your expert help regarding my Grandad's brother Alexander Nicol Dunn of Church Place Old Kilpatrick. What hasn't been mentioned is that Alexander won the Military Medal . Would there be anyway to find out more about this?
When I first posted on Rootschat's 'Old Kilpatrick Cemetery' section I knew virtually nothing about Alexander apart from the family story saying he'd died after the war & was given a Military Funeral & the whole town turned out. With marvellous help from King Ranger I now have a copy of a Newspaper clipping with the added bonus of his photo on it & telling of the Funeral of Sergeant Alexander Dunn in Old Kilpatrick in 1927. He may not have died of wounds like we were told as it was 9 yrs after the war but he was given a nice send off with the union jack on his coffin & ex servicemen attending. ( I have attached the Clipping if you'd like to read it Adrian)
Thanks again Adrian & King Ranger. Your help has really been appreciated otherwise I'd never have known what I now know about an old war hero in our family.
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Was a pleasure to play a small part in finding out about Alexander.As we approach 2014 the stories about the hero's of World War 1 need to be told.It would interesting to know if the Church is aware they have a Military Medal winner lying in an unmarked grave in their churchyard.
Colin.
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My son has checked through the Military Medal winners in the London Gazette. Here is the Link to it http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29854/supplements/12041
He found the following among the listings. S/10439 L./Sjt. A. Dunn, Arg. & SutH'd
Highrs.
A. Dunn, was awarded the Military Medal December 1916.
Is there anyway I could find out if this is the Alexander Dunn I've been trying to learn more about?
We realise this A Dunn has a different Service number but think it could be that Alexander came out of the Army & a few years later in 1914 he was called up. If he wanted to be in his old Regiment then he might have been given a new number. Is that a possibility?
Thanks for reading this & thanks to everyone for helping me get this far.,
NORMAN
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My son wanted to explain it better so here below is how he sees it.
When Alexander transferred from the Militia (which was like the TA nowadays) into the Regular Full time army in 1903 he was given the number 9079. He kept this number when he went into the reserves in 1910, as he was still officially a soldier. When the war started in 1914, he was called straight back up, and had the same number, as he was still technically a soldier being a reservist. When his 12 years plus 12 months service in Jan 1916 (12 months added due to the war) expired he was demobilised, and his 9079 number ceased to exist.
He then chose to re enlist, and was then given another number (as we know from his medal card, 9079 didn’t carry on after Jan 1916). I think his new number was 10439 from then on, and he won the Military Medal during his service with this new number.
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I was thinking last night that with Old Kilpatrick being a village i would have thought that Alexander winning the Military Medal would have been big news in the local paper,so if no one comes up with the information might be worth trying the paper again.The only problem would be we have no idea when in 1916 Alexander won it.
Colin.
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Good Morning Colin,
I think you are right as it was just a small Village in 1916. Hopefully we might get some more information & possibly the date he won the Military Medal. Fingers crossed.
Norman
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Hi All
The battle of the Somme was from July to November 1916 just a possibility
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks for trying to help Bruce.
I've looked through all the Alexander Dunn's on Ancestry & can't find that Service number 10439 which was his number when he won the Military Medal. Poor Alexander ended up a pauper in an unmarked grave & now it looks like his heroism in 1916 isn't even recorded.
Many thanks,
Norman
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Just gone through the Glasgow Roll of Honour which i thought was only for soldiers that had been killed but found that not to be the case. Only one Dunn, and he came from Falkirk.
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Hi Colin,
Thanks for your help once again. My son is going to visit Stirling Castle & see if they have any record of Alexander being awarded the MM. By coincidence I traced my Dunn family to Falkirk as far back as the 1700s. One of them was Charles Dunn born 1814 & he was my great great granda & married Glasgow lady Margaret Marshall who was born 1815. Thanks again Colin.
NORMAN
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Hi Norman i went up to the castle last week to ask if i could check the museum for Alexanders medals ,but they would not let me in without paying .I dont grudge paying but have been around it 4 times so i just came away.
Colin
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Hi Colin,
I don't blame you for coming away. My son has never been to Stirling so it will be an experience seeing the Castle with his wife & son & he'll kill two birds with one stone & see if he can access any records they have. I think its a disgrace that we get charged for looking up records of men who fought for the country & lost their lives. I don't know when Simon is going but it'll be this summer.
NORMAN
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Let him know it is £14 for adults cant remember the Childs price.It is well worth it but i was not going to pay that when i just wanted to see if Alexanders medals were on display.
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Hi
You could always try here
http://www.argylls.co.uk/museum/enquiries/252-enquiries-visiting-the-archive
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Bruce,
If you ask the Museum a question then they want a minimum donation of £20 & don't guarantee they have the information you asked for.
I think my son would rather drive up to Stirling from where we live in Tyne & Wear with his wife & son & & see the castle & museum as he's never been before.
Regards,
NORMAN