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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: lakay on Monday 03 June 13 15:00 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for information regarding William Coyle or Koyle in Tasmania.
He had a daughter Mary Ann Coyle born 1855 to 1858 in Tasmania. I have seen information on the internet that William married Ellen Behan but I can't find a marriage record......
I have seen the birth of F. Coyle (not sure if F. is just for female) 20-6-1855 on the Tasmanian Birth records showing father William, mother Ellen Bays, so I'm assuming this is Mary Ann, as this is the date I've seen on other information shown on her.....
Mary Ann Coyle married Henry Howard in 1873 and her father William Coyle was said to have died the following year 1874 but I can't find a death......
William's wife was supposed to have married again after William died and I found a marriage for Ellen Behan to John Sweeney (not Ellen Coyle) - so to me that indicates that she wasn't actually married to William Coyle.
There are many mixed records - but if there is anyone who has William Coyle/Koyle in their family tree and has any information about him regarding his birth, death or anything really, I would appreciate any help.
I found a convict record in Tasmania for a William Koyle but I'm not sure if this is the same person as I haven't been able to verify it in any way.
Thank you if anyone has any information..
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The marriage to John Sweeney was in 1856 - Ellen Behan may have also had a relationship with William Coffee (last kid with John Sweeney 1866 - kids with William Coffee listed from 1868).
The first kid born to John Sweeney and Ellen Behan, Denis, may also be the witness Denis Sweeny listed when Mary Ann marries: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0udo/
Certainly suggests the Sween(e)y link is right but just falls short of hard proof.
Have you looked through the convict William Koyle's records to see if location around 1854/55, etc, fit?
ETA:
Okay, this would seem to be more for her being your Mary's mother - William "Coffee" was aka William Caffell, and this death of Ellen Caffell in 1896 has informant H. Howard:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0uds/
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Hi Thanks for those bits of information. I have only found a convict record for a William Coyle who arrived in Tasmania March 1841, but I don't really know if this is 'the' William Coyle or not, I have looked but haven't found anything regarding William Coyle after that about where he lived or died, but I will keep looking. Thanks for the reply.
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I have seen the birth of F. Coyle (not sure if F. is just for female) 20-6-1855 on the Tasmanian Birth records showing father William, mother Ellen Bays, so I'm assuming this is Mary Ann, as this is the date I've seen on other information shown on her.....
The register showing the birth - last one at the bottom of the page:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0udm/
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William KOYLE was transported as a court-martialed soldier for mutinous conduct:
http://foundersandsurvivors.org//pubsearch-xsl/image/viewer.html?CON31-1-25,332,205
http://foundersandsurvivors.org//pubsearch-xsl/image/viewer.html?CON18-1-27,185,34
http://foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch/convict/chain/c31a31250582
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Hi Thanks for the birth record which shows me there that the f was for female, as no name has been given to the child.
Thanks also for the convict records, I had seen them but have been undecided if this was the same William Koyle/Coyle. However I haven't found any other William Koyle, and no other information about him either.
I also found a death on trove for an Ellen Sweeney in Hobart, 26-2-1917 age 83 years, relict of the late James Sweeney. Although the marriage record said she married John Sweeney, she was 22 years old (so born 1834) then and the age at death matches that exactly. But she died a bit out of the area of where she married and had the children.
So I'm not sure if i go with the Ellen Sweeney or the Ellen Caffell death, even though an Ellen Behan has had children to William Coffee and Henry Caffell as well as Sweeney and Koyle and the informant on the Caffell death of H. Howard, shown as 'a friend' could have been her son in law Henry Howard who was living at Nook about that time.
The Caffell death says she was 58, which would make her born 1838, so she could have lied about her age when she married Sweeney.
Anyway thanks and I'll keep looking but would gladly receive any further information if anyone has any.
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Ellen CAFFELL's death notice:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9322933
CAFFELL - On April 10, 1896, at her daughters residence, Spreyton, Ellen, the beloved wife of William Caffell, of Hobart, aged 58 years.
The HOWARDS were having children in the same area in the 1890's. Son Henry Mervyn enlisted iin 1918 and one of the documents signed by his parents states that he was born at Spreyton.
http://dhistory.org/archives/naa/items/5485413/
Debra :)
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... and her father William Coyle was said to have died the following year 1874 but I can't find a death.
The only likely death I can see after 1873 is this one:
KAYLE WILLIAM age 67yrs d. 28/02/1876 CAMPBELL TOWN #42/1876 RGD 35
Image of the register is here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ueo/
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Thanks everyone for those additional bits of information the Caffell death is looking more promising and the death of William Kayle also looks like it's the right one.
Thanks for the web sites to check out. Funny that Henry and Mary Ann Howard have verified that their son Henry Mervyn was born 16-1-1900 when his birth certificate says 15-1-1899.
I think the Ellen Sweeney death I found must be another Ellen. Unfortunately when you find something like that and it fits, it's so easy to think you're on the right track - and you're not.
Thanks again
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I'd like your opinions. On the birth register records shown here for the from Merlin for the female Coyle child, it looks like the mothers maiden name is Bayl. So thinking that William Kayle was a convict, and a soldier, I looked on Founders and Survivors for Ellen Bayl and found, Ellen Bayle or Boyle, police number 428, transported for 7 years to Tasmania in 1839 on the Hindostan. I found her also at Cascades Female factory in Hobart and being employed by JB Thomas at Millford.
On the Founders and Survivors site pages it says she was married, husband William a soldier in the {L###} {Burg} Can you tell what that really means....
Because I'm wondering if that means she was married before she left England or was this her marriage to William Kayle,(convict & soldier) in Tasmania and they had the one child?
I've tried to read the images it shows on the Founders and Survivors but can't make it all out but I can see that it says she was married to William, a soldier, and had one child, but are those hand written records from before she left England or when she arrived in Australia.
It seems very much of a coincidence if this isn't the same Ellen Bayl that appears to be the mother of the Coyle child to have been married to William, who was a soldier, and to have had one child.
Also William Kayle appears to have died at Campbelltown and Ellen was employed by JB Thomas at Millford which I think is quite near to there.
Can anyone give me any clues on this, i'm a little confused.
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Your Ellen was born c1834-1838 (if the SWEENEY marriage and CAFFELL death are correct), so she wouldn't be the one who was transported in 1839. A bit too much of an age difference I think. It could however be her child maybe?
The personal information on her conduct record and indent are from her life before transportation.
Ellen BAYLE/BOYLE was a native of Horsley in Derbyshire, aged 28, wife of William, a soldier in the Queen's Bays - explanation here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Dragoon_Guards_%28Queen%27s_Bays%29
Her indent is easier to read and has more info. I think that by the names of her father and siblings her maiden surname may have been FOULKE/S.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON15-1-9,46,35,L,80
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON15-1-9,46,36,L,80
She married William MASON in 1844, applied in 1841 http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=5
There are death notices which suit them age wise, no children mentioned.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8851284
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8807562
Debra :)
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Hi Thanks for your reply and the information. Sorry I missed seeing the Ellen Bayle marriage, I thought I'd checked everywhere, and I can see now that she has married William Mason.
I have also noticed on the Tasmania's Heritage page that there's a William Coyle married to an Ellen Bays and a female child born in 1855, - and I'm sure that i searched all through those pages once or more before, - and whether that information is right or not, I don't know, but because of the lack of any further records to check I'm going to assume the child is the Mary Ann Coyle, that is the ancestral line I need. Thanks for your help.
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A William SWEENEY aged 27 married in 1895 at Hobart to Christina COPE. Ellen HOWARD was a witness. His age is about right to be the son of John and Ellen SWEENEY.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-35349-23981-50?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9DC:n1507021648
I believe I have found some relatives for Ellen Snr.
This is all speculative and I think worth looking into further.
Bridget BEHAN married in 1857 at Westbury to Jeremiah McCAULIFFE, John and Ellen SWEENEY were witnesses.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-35346-12116-56?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9ZD:n33474734
I think Bridget arrived into Hobart as Biddy BEHANE in 1855 on the Fortitude. She was aged 18, a general servant, RC, native to County Kerry, and sent out on the application of Denis SWEENEY. Brothers Denis and John SWEENY of County Kerry were transported together in 1852 on the Lord Dalhousie for stealing a cow, and were both conditionally pardoned in 1854.
Bridget died in 1900, and Jeremiah died in 1907. He wrote his Will in 1898 and names two living sons and seven living daughters. They only registered one of their children, William, but he was not mentioned in the will so may have died as an infant.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=9
Johanna BEHAN married in 1862 at Westbury to Patrick DALEY. John and Ellen SWEENEY were witnesses.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-35346-11461-71?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9ZV:n1854196113
I think Johanna arrived into Tas. in 1860 on the Empire of Peace. She was aged 16, a general servant, RC, native to County Kerry, and sent out on the application of J. McNAMARA.
Johanna died in 1910 and left a Will which only names two sons and a daughter. She had quite a lot of children but I haven't checked to see if they had died. Page 2 is missing and I will see if I can find it later, it may be on the beginning of the next Will.
I cannot find an immigration record for Ellen.
Debra :)
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I have also noticed on the Tasmania's Heritage page that there's a William Coyle married to an Ellen Bays and a female child born in 1855, - and I'm sure that i searched all through those pages once or more before, - and whether that information is right or not, I don't know, but because of the lack of any further records to check I'm going to assume the child is the Mary Ann Coyle, that is the ancestral line I need. Thanks for your help.
The "marriage" year noted on FamilyLinks has been assumed from the year of birth of the first known child. Note the symbol @
@ indicates that the date given for a marriage is derived from the date of the first identified birth of a child to the two people and therefore may not be accurate. In such cases the place is derived in the same way and may not be accurate.
I agree that the surname for Ellen on the 1855 birth registration looks more like BAYL than BAYS. However it also looks like the deputy registrar started to write the word and didn't finish it. It seems to me that a literate person would not spell the name that way, and would put an 'E' on the end - BAYLE. I wonder if it has been transcribed and he couldn't decipher the original handwriting.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0udm/
While there are some Catholic baptisms amongst the images available on FamilySearch it certainly isn't all of them. Here is a list of Church Registers held by Tas. Archives http://www.linc.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/333253/Church_Register_List.pdf and you would probably be looking at Westbury or Deloraine.
The child would have been named when baptised and you may also get names of sponsors. You may be able to organise someone from the genealogy society in Hobart to have a look at the records for you.
Debra :)
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Page 2 of Johanna DALEY'S Will is at the beginning of the first page of this one:
Falkiner, Humphrey Richard
1910 AD960/1/31
484 8187
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=9
Debra :)
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Hi Debra Thanks so much for the latest information and websites that I've checked out and found some interesting information which has helped me a lot.
I agree with you in wondering if the birth record for the unnamed Coyle child (mother Ellen Bays) that the page might have been transcribed and the writing unable to be read, because this Ellen (Bays) has then become Ellen Behan who has then married John Sweeney.
Which leads me to ask you if it's possible for you to look for a death record for Ellen Sweeney in Hobart. I found a death and funeral notice in The Mercury newspaper on trove on 26 Feb 1917, age 83 years which fits with the age of 22 she gave when she married Sweeney in 1856. And after seeing that Bridget and Joanna Behan & families lived around Hobart I'm wondering whether this is the right Ellen Sweeney.
Thank you
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The Ellen SWEENEY who died in 1917 was Ellen SAUNDERS who had been married to Thomas WOODS, and had a relationship in later life with a James SWEENEY. Her son, William Benjamin WOODS enlisted in WW1 and named her as his next of kin. Letters in his service record indicate that she died in the Consumptive Sanitorium in Hobart.
That is the only death for an Ellen SWEENEY that I can see.
Debra :)
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Hi, OK thanks for that, I just needed to get a bit more information on that to convince me that it wasn't the one I was looking for, as I wasn't too sure that the death of Ellen Caffell that has been mentioned in the earlier replies was the one I wanted - but it seems as though the Hobart one isn't the one i'm after, so I can cross that one off. :)
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William CAFFELL and Ellen BEHAN had two children, Ellen Marie b. 1868 and Henry Francis b. 1872. Henry died in 1899, unmarried I think, and Ellen married in 1903 to William Thomas Donnelly TAYLOR. She also died fairly young in 1913 and the three of them are buried together at Cornelian Bay.
Here are some photos online of Ellen and her family, her son William Henry bears quite a striking resemblance:
http://www.myheritage.com/person-10000005_37127321_37127321/ellen-marie-taylor-born-caffell
This site is free to register. I have never used it, but if you click on the 'home' tab you can see who submitted the info. I would imagine that you would be able to contact the submitter once you register. I would be trying to contact as many people as possible, just to try and confirm the CAFFELL/SWEENEY/HOWARD relationship. You never know what documents and oral info people have until you ask.
There are also a number of people who have submitted trees to Ancestry so they would also be worth contacting.
Debra :)
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Hi, Thanks for that. Yes I had seen that site and looked through it and I think that's where I started questioning the Caffell connection, even though it's been found that there were 2 children born to an Ellen Behan and William Caffell, and there's also been a death found for an Ellen Caffell.
At first look at all seems like it could be ok - and it could well be right - but to me it's not convincing me just yet. :-\
For instance there's a marriage between Ellen Behan and William James Caffell in 1870 at St Pancras, Stepney, Middlesex London (i think that's hardly unlikely) and I couldn't find it on the Free BMD site.
Before that they had daughter Ellen Maria Caffell born 1868 in Tasmania and then son Henry Francis Caffell in 1872 in Tasmania.
However I have as you said, checked to see who submitted the information and I will contact him. I'd already emailed 2 other people whose websites I'd found information on, but no replies from them - yet.
I have also noticed on the Tasmanian Heritage pages that there's two Ellen BEHAN's and if that's correct, I get the feeling that people have got the two confused. Because they have different numbers, and one Ellen has no birth but shows the marriage to William Caffell and the two children Ellen Maria and Henry William - and the other Ellen born 1834, to John Sweeney and their children.
Thanks again.
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Hi Does anyone know if any convict's wife/husband or family ever came with them to Australia, Tasmania in particular?
If they did is there a website to find out from.
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Hi lakay,
Convicts could apply to have their families brought out. The documents are amongst the Colonial Secretary's Papers, but as with everything, not all have survived. There is a published index (TASFHS) which you might find at your local library or family history society.
http://www.hobart.tasfhs.org/Convict%20Applications.htm
Usually it is noted in the convict index in the "Remarks" column. To see an example, search for the name - Dennis CALLAGHAN http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11
Debra :)
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H Thanks for that. I guess it was too much to hope for to find a website where they would be listed, no worries. I didn't know that were mentioned on the Tas Archive site though so have checked that out. I'll check out the library when i get the time to go there.
Cheers.