RootsChat.Com

Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Murphester on Saturday 01 June 13 11:41 BST (UK)

Title: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Murphester on Saturday 01 June 13 11:41 BST (UK)
Hi all

I am trying to find information on a potential first marriage of my GGGrandfather but I've come to a bit of a standstill regarding his (possible) spouse.

What I know from the marriage certificate:

Edgar James Went (aged 24yrs) m. Mary Ann Jones (aged 22yrs)
27 Apr 1872 in Swansea
Both their fathers were deceased at the time (James Went and James Jones respectively)

Her residence at the time of marriage was 8 Sea Beach Terrace, Swansea.  So, I thought I would try and find her on the 1871 census but nothing is coming up with address.  I'm with ancestry and not having any joy...unless I'm not searching properly.  Her father was deceased so possibly she was living outside the family home - maybe working elsewhere?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I'd like to somehow find out if she passed away while they were married, if they divorced, if they had any children?

If this is the same person, Edgar James Went remarried in 1881 in Newport.



Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 01 June 13 12:15 BST (UK)
The 1891 census has:
Class: RG12; Piece: 4374; Folio: 130; Page: 51
41 Upper Jeddo Street, St Woollos, Newport, Monmouthshire

Went, Edgar James  Head  M  41  Pilot's Man  b Brightlesea, Essex
Went, Ellen  Wife  F  30  b Ilfracombe, Devon
Went, Mabel  Daughter  F  9  Scholar  b Newport
Went, Ellie  Daughter  F  7  Scholar  b Newport
Went, Ethel  Daughter  F  4  Scholar  b Newport


Divorce is highly unlikely - it was very expensive back then.
Can't remember the dates when it changed, but it also might have needed an Act of Parliament?


Marriage, March qtr 1881
Newport (Monmouthshire) district    vol 11a, page 239

Went, Edgar James
+ and probably +
Davis, Beatrice Ellen
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Murphester on Saturday 01 June 13 12:28 BST (UK)
Thanks KGarrad.  I have this one as Beatrice Ellen DAVIS is my GGGrandmother, and his second wife from a marriage in 1881.

Mary Ann Went (nee JONES) is my person of interest - Edgar James Went's possible first wife.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 01 June 13 12:32 BST (UK)
Sorry! I like to look from first principles!!

1881 Census: Class: RG11; Piece: 5268; Folio: 53; Page: -8
Aboard the "Admiral", a Pilot Boat, at Newport

Whent, Edgar James  Married  M  32  Chief Mate  b Brightlandsea, Essex


So that seems to confirm that the 2 marriages are the same chap?! ;D
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: ..claire.. on Saturday 01 June 13 12:38 BST (UK)
1871 census for 8 Seabeach Terrace Swansea

Mary J Webber head W.  41  Laundress   bn Devon
Agnes      "      dau         9   scholar         " Blackfill Swansea
Ellen                 "           7       "              "      "         "
Bessie H   "       "           4                      "                 "
William Smith lodger 23 labourer  bn Barnstaple Devon
John       "        "     26      "         "  Burrington    "

Class RG10  Piece 5451  Folio 35  Page 20.

claire
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Murphester on Saturday 01 June 13 12:54 BST (UK)
Thanks claire - she obviously wasn't at that address for very long before marrying in 1872.  Mayeb likely that she was a lodger.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 01 June 13 12:59 BST (UK)
She only had to be there for 3 weeks!
Same law applies even today. ;D

Maybe Edgar James & Mary Ann just agreed to part ways?
Many couples did that before divorce became affordable!
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 01 June 13 13:21 BST (UK)

What I know from the marriage certificate:

Edgar James Went (aged 24yrs) m. Mary Ann Jones (aged 22yrs)
27 Apr 1872 in Swansea
Both their fathers were deceased at the time (James Went and James Jones respectively)

If this is the same person, Edgar James Went remarried in 1881 in Newport.

Does it give the occupations of both father's?
What occupation was given for Edgar?
Who witnessed the marriage?

1851c HO107; Piece: 1782; Folio: 117; Page: 36
Edgar WENT age 2 (1849) Brightlington Essex
parents James 29 occ Mariner,  Catherine 26 & Charles 4mths




Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Murphester on Saturday 01 June 13 13:33 BST (UK)

What I know from the marriage certificate:

Edgar James Went (aged 24yrs) m. Mary Ann Jones (aged 22yrs)
27 Apr 1872 in Swansea
Both their fathers were deceased at the time (James Went and James Jones respectively)

If this is the same person, Edgar James Went remarried in 1881 in Newport.

Does it give the occupations of both father's?  James Went (Mariner) and James Jones (Farmer)
What occupation was given for Edgar?  Mariner
Who witnessed the marriage?  John Coslet and Alfred Henry Thorpe

1851c HO107; Piece: 1782; Folio: 117; Page: 36
Edgar West age 2 (1849) Brightlington Essex
parents James 29 occ Mariner,  Catherine 26 & Charles 4mths
Yes, this looks like Edgar in 1851

How can I find out if any children came from this marriage between Edgar and Mary Ann?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 01 June 13 14:13 BST (UK)
Quote
How can I find out if any children came from this marriage between Edgar and Mary Ann?

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

I’ve tried births on FreeBMD  district Swansea
Nothing shows up for surname Went between 1872 – 1881  :(
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 13 14:14 BST (UK)
Quote

How can I find out if any children came from this marriage between Edgar and Mary Ann?

I don't know whether Reginald may have been a child of Edgar James Went & Mary Ann Jones

there this birth entry
Neath Sep 1876 vol 11a page 587 Reginald William WENTE

This looks to be his death
Merthyr T Jun 1879 Reginald William WENT age 2

the only way of finding out his parents names would be to order the b/c,may just be a coincidence but Edgar & Ellen named a son Reginald  :-\

just for info. - you probably have these entries for their children

WENT Births  Registration district Newport Mon

Dec 1881 Mabel Caroline E
Dec 1883 Gertrude Lilian M
Mar 1886 Edgar James died age 0 Sep 1886
Mar 1887 Ethel Alice E
Dec 1891 Frederick Robert
Jun  1896 Violet May
Dec 1898 Gladys Irene R
Sep 1901 Elsie Victoria
Jun 1904 Ivy Maud
Jun 1907 Reginald George

Haven't had much luck finding a death for  Mary Ann Went nee Jones born c 1850 or finding her with her father James - Farmer  ???






Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Murphester on Sunday 02 June 13 14:30 BST (UK)
Thanks Ladyhawk, that's interesting and worth looking in to.  However, my gut tells me that they would have lived very near to a port as being in/on water is the type of work Edgar always did  (dredger, mariner etc).  Nevertheless, I will see how much more I can find out about Reginald.

Oh, how I wish the census was taken more than every 10 years!

And, yes, I have that list of the children.  Gertrude is my GGrandmother.  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 13 15:12 BST (UK)
Thanks Ladyhawk, that's interesting and worth looking in to.  However, my gut tells me that they would have lived very near to a port as being in/on water is the type of work Edgar always did  (dredger, mariner etc).  Nevertheless, I will see how much more I can find out about Reginald.


Again you may already have this info. confirms Swansea till 1880

Unfortunately Edgar James Went’s home address or marital status not given see link for full details  http://www.swanseamariners.org.uk/swanseamariners.php

Edgar James Went b1849 Brightlingsea Essex A B
Ship Velindra http://www.swanseamariners.org.uk/shipsregister.php

Sign on date 25 04 1878 sign off date 20  7 1878
  “       “            25 07 1878  “         “            26 10 1878
“        “             08 04 1879 “           “           28   7 1879
                        29 08 1879                           21  1 1880
                        20 01 1880                           24 07 1880 port of discharge Swansea

nothing after this date

1871 RG10; Piece: 1093; Folio: 124 - Sussex England
Ship Purveyor
Edgar James Went unmarried c1849 Brightlingsea Essex AB Seaman


Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Murphester on Sunday 02 June 13 15:36 BST (UK)
Thank you! I didn't know that information existed! 

On his marriage certificate (to Beatrice Ellen) he listed his status as Bachelor.  I guess if he and Mary Ann just parted ways, and no official divorce took place, then he would feel that was the right term to use. 

Easy to see how things may not have worked out ... he was away at sea a lot!
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: osprey on Sunday 02 June 13 16:02 BST (UK)
you can rule out the 1876 Reginald, his father was Francis Bernard

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VF8W-FYS
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 13 16:57 BST (UK)
you can rule out the 1876 Reginald, his father was Francis Bernard

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VF8W-FYS
:(
Oh well at least you didn’t have to buy the certificate to find out it was wrong

back to the drawing board  finding a Mary Ann JONES with father James occ Farmer on the 1851/61 census – difficult with the name Mary & Jones in Wales

I wonder if we can assume that she was born somewhere around the Swansea area,
her age 22 on 1872 marriage cert. so born c 1850

Did Edgar & Mary marry in a Church - if so what was the name?

There are three birth entries on FreeBMD for 1850 Reg. district Swansea
Mary Ann Jones Mar 1850, Jun 1850 & Sep 1850

also  MAJ 1851 (x 2) & 1852 (x 1)

I wonder if either of the witnesses to their marriage may give us a clue

John Coslet & Alfred Henry Thorpe

Interesting that the 1872 marriage FreeBMD also has a Mary COSLET on the same page
Title: Re: Mary Ann Went (nee Jones) - I'm stuck!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 04 June 13 21:02 BST (UK)
Edgar appears in the British Newspaper archive a few times - some are related to absconding from is master's service in 1870, when an apprentice. There's also something from the Belfast News-Letter of Monday 23 April 1877 but the free search result doesn't give enough clues