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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: davidpaul on Saturday 25 May 13 23:12 BST (UK)
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looking for some kind rooteschatter to help with these 2 have James bulloch,s birth and death 1811/1852 from kirkintilloch looking for his sibling,s.have his wife Christina Erskine birth and death 1810/1862 from kings park stirling looking for any info on her siblings and parents etc many many thanks for any help at all regards David.
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Hi David
The 2 dates you gave - they're death dates ? For Christina, does the certificate name her parents?
Cheers
AMBLY
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no theirs a birth date and death date for her but so far have no parents names for her as yet got her children and got these dates from certs from them regards david.
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have James bulloch,s birth and death 1811/1852 from kirkintilloch
have his wife Christina Erskine birth and death 1810/1862 from kings park stirling
Hi David,
Do you mean you have Christina's (post 1855) death cert but it does not have parents names on it - or do you mean you have not yet obtained the cert to see what it says?
The dates you have written above, I just want to clarify - are they death dates? see my next reply! :P
What are the full names of all their children and their years/place of birth (their birth order may indicate a pattern?
Sorry for all the questions, but the more you can tell us of what you already know, the more we can help ;D
Cheers
AMBLY
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Ignore me - re above dates clarification : I have now put the other eye in and see you have written the dates 1811 / 1852 etc not 18/11/1852 8)
Cheers
AMBLY
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have these dates from her son George bullochs marriage cert saying she is deceased.regards David
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theirs a francis bulloch 1826,janet 1827,margaret 1831,robert 1833, george 1834 and john bulloch 1845 regards david.
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Are you saying that James Bulloch was born 1811 and died 1852 and Christina was born 1810 and died 1862?
If so - you may want to take a look at this marriage entry from FS
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTBM-ZMX
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sorry should of wrote it out better and yes carole thats what i was trying to say david.
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Have you looked at the marriage date - they married in 1806 - impossible if they were born in the years you give
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yes have looked and looked at a 41 and 51 census which gives that dates so this is her many thanks carole.
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Hi David
So this must be the 2 Census:
1841: Address: Laggary Offices, Row, Dunbartonshire
James BULLOCH 30, Gardener - Y
Christina BULLOCH 31 - N
Francis BULLOCH 15, Gardener's Apprentice - Y
Janet BULLOCH 14 - Y
Margaret BULLOCH 10 - N
Robert BULLOCH 8 - Y
1851: Address: John Street, Row, Dumbartonshire
With son John, age 6 born Helensburgh. James BULLOCK is a gardener age 40. Wife Christina is 41.
No son in 1841 named George, I note...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=611303.0
George BULLOCH, Slater, married
Janet McKAY, Warehouse-woman on 11 Sep 1862, London Road
The marriage certificate named George's father as : James BULLOCH, Shoemaker and his mother as Christina BULLOCH ms Erskine
That's quite a shift in occupation - Gardener to Shoemaker.
That IGI marriage is here, 1862:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTY9-CMG
Subsequent census show George BULLOCH the slater as being born in Glasgow between 1831-1834
How do you know all the younger people listed in 1841 are children of James & Christina? And for the ones not born in the county, where were they born?
David, I'm concerned you are following the wrong family....
Cheers
AMBLY
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have traced back throught my grt granfather george bulloch born 1860 in 50 king street carlton glasgow. hope i havent got it wrong regards david.
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You have given the wrong details
The family you are quoting belong to James Bullock and Christina McDermid who married in 1838.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTGD-TX6
Here's their son John's baptism
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYZX-MYD
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really carole now very confused .
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George and Janet were already living together as man and wife in 1861:
They're in Calton Glasgow 1861 with a son John age 8 , son George age 3 and daughter Mary age 10 Months.
Sorry David, I think you might have gotten it wrong :'( - here's a more likely looking family
1841: Gallowgate Street, Glasgow Chalmers, Lanarkshire
James BULLOCH 50, Shoe m J (Shoemaker Journeyman)
Thomas BULLOCH 25, Slatter (Slater)
John BULLOCH 15, Saddlers Apprentice
George BULLOCH 10
Isabella BULLOCH 14
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Nothing about George indicated he should belong to the Dumbartonshire family. The commonality of forenames was all you went on - so hopefully it's been righted before you went too far down the wrong road. Also goes to show, how important it is to prove with documents where possible. George's death for example may have been the first key pointer - if he died in Scotland.
Cheers
AMBLY
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thanks for this really do appreciate your help.
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yes george died 1912 stirling.
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Hi David
You're welcome, glad to be able to help a little,
Carole gave you the IGI link to the parents marriage (above).
From the IGI, issue to James BULLOCH & Christina (Christian) ERSKINE:
Jean 1807 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FMS1-2LG (extracted)
Isobel 1809 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FM3S-Q31 (extracted)
Janet 1811 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQHP-YQS (extracted)
William 1816 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MD6V-GYC (submitted)
James 1819 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X173-MKM (extracted & submitted)
If this IGI couple is a match to 1841 Census family of the shoemaker then probably this list of issue is not complete - there is a wide gap 1811- 1816 / 1819, and nothing after 1819 - ie: for any of the (presumed) children of James the Shoemaker listed on that 1841.
But, I think this George in 1851 could be yours?
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
3 Gibson Street, Glasgow St James, Lanarkshire
Head: Jean CULLEN 40, widow, winder of Cotton Yarn,
Dau: Jean CULLEN 16, Bleacher
Dau: Christina CULLEN 14, Message girl in Shoe Shop
Dau: Janet CULLEN 11, Scholar,
Dau: Elizabeth CULLEN 9, Scholar,
Brother: George BULLOCK 20, unm, General labourer,
Lodger: William WISHART, 18, General Labourer
ALL Born Glasgow
And, Jean CULLEN Senior - if she died after 1855, hopefully her parents are James BULLOCH and Christina ERSKINE. I think she did live past 1855:
In 1861 at 20 Green Street, Glasgow
Head: William BULLOCH 43, Slater,
Son: James BULLOCH 16, App Slater,
Son: William BULLOCH 4,
Sister: Jean CULLEN 50, b Glasgow
William BULLOCH married a Frances McINTYRE it seems - she down as such on the 1841 Census (FreeCen).
Cheers
AMBLY
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thanks so much ambly david.
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hello to yous all sorry but don,t know if am posting this in the right place but here we go after all the great help i received on this thread am having a few problems with James bullochs father ,all i have is a john bulloch born Scotland 1770 have found him to be married to a Elizabeth hadden 1774 st Boswells roxburgh this is all I've manged to find so far need help putting him with mother ,father and siblings to help me go futher back and a little help with Elizabeth would be great as well any kind help would be greatfully received David.
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having a few problems with James bullochs father ,all i have is a john bulloch born Scotland 1770 have found him to be married to a Elizabeth hadden 1774 st Boswells roxburgh
Where did you get this information from? What evidence do you have that John Bulloch and Elizabeth Hadden are the parents of James Bulloch who married Christian Erskine?
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really abit unsure but did see a tree on ancestry a while back that had all the same family but quiet unsure tho this tree seemed to have all the right people as not being on ancestry have been looking at print out for Sp but totally lost with this also didn't have to much success with James and Christina total brick wall no dates for them 2 many thanks tho for your reply David.
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really abit unsure but did see a tree on ancestry a while back that had all the same family but quiet unsure tho this tree seemed to have all the right people as not being on ancestry have been looking at print out for Sp but totally lost with this also didn't have to much success with James and Christina total brick wall no dates for them 2 many thanks tho for your reply David.
Never take anything you find in an online tree as definite. Especially Ancestry. It's fine to use them as pointers, but in absence of any definite evidence you cannot rely on them.
Sometimes people look for a birth and find only one in the time period, so they conclude that the one has to be the right one. Then they put that online, and other people copy it, so it becomes widely 'known' and generally accepted, when in fact it is wrong.
James Bulloch, son of John Bulloch and Elizabeth Hadden, was born in 1811, five years after your James got married, so he is obviously not the one.
You have your James Bulloch in the 1841 census, age given as 50, born in Lanarkshire. In 1841, adults' ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so he could have been anything from 50 to 54, which means that he could have been born any time from 1786 until 1791.
There are two James Bullochs in the IGI who fit this bill
Son of William Bulloch and Jean Carwall, baptised 7 March 1790 ('contributed')
Son of James Bulloch and Helen Steven, baptised 14 March 1791 (extracted')
However, both of these are really rather too young to marry in March 1806. No 1 would have been just 16, and No 2 only 15.
So I am willing to bet that your James is one of the many whose baptism is missing from the records, and that there is little chance of finding who his parents were.
There is a slim chance that, for example, the baptisms of his children may give the names of witnesses to the baptism, or that perhaps one of James' siblings might have registered a post-1855 death, or that some other clue like a burial record or a gravestone might exist.
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all the replies i got on Christina and Jame where very helpful originally did have their offsprings wrong but carole w and amble set me back on the right track its all down on this thread but thanks for looking at this question on James parents much appreciated was hoping to get a small lead to them thanks David.
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Hi Ambly,
I have an ancestor Jessie Cullen who in died 1872 aged 29 with parents named James Cullen and Jane Bulloch at 3 Gibson St, Calton in Glasgow (Jessie's death certificate). James was deceased by 1865 (Jessie's marriage certificate) but Jane was alive in 1872 (Jessie's death certificate). The 1861 Census listed sisters as Christina and Elizabeth also at 3 Gibson St.
Can the names of Jean and Jessie be used as alternatives for each other? Is this a likely match of the same family?
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Ianm 46 think this is ur family of ancestors , so would like to say hello and this is great to find another distant relative
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Hi DavidPaul,
it seems the families of ancestors have spread wide and far.
I am researching the marriage of William Bulloch and Frances McIntyre and have discovered 2 marriages only a month apart, both in Glasgow City (9 May 1841 in Glasgow Parish and 4 Jun 1841 in Rutherglen Parish).
Now, how to choose the right one? Family history is written in a chronological order but researched backwards. Such is the challenge (and fun!?) of genealogy.
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I am researching the marriage of William Bulloch and Frances McIntyre and have discovered 2 marriages only a month apart, both in Glasgow City (9 May 1841 in Glasgow Parish and 4 Jun 1841 in Rutherglen Parish). Now, how to choose the right one?
This is quite common, and you don't have to choose one or the other.
The marriage records before 1855 are not necessarily the record of the wedding ceremony but the records of the proclamation of banns.
If the couple lived in different parishes, the banns had to be proclaimed in both parishes, and this generates a double record. The discrepancy in date may be because the clerk in one parish wrote the record on the day the banns were first proclaimed, while the clerk in the other actually included the date of the wedding ceremony. If the weddding date is listed (it isn't always) then the indexers include that. If not, the date can be the date of first proclamation.
You need to go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, invest in a few credits and download the images of the original records to see exactly what they tell you.
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The erskine name is a challenge ian , as far as Ihaved looked it seem to be a tinker name do know thats this could be right ian as well just had no luck with christina at this moment hopefully I will get more on her regards david.
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All most sure the bulloch name originated in loch lomond ian and may of been balloch.
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Thanks Forfarian,
since I made my post, I have the the records on scotlandspeople and are inclined to think that as the couple were from different parishes, and Frances was from a non-conformist church which could not marry a couple without it first occurring in a Church of Scotland, that the marriage occurred first in Glasgow and then in the non-conformist Rutherglen Relief Church. The marriage date is the same on both records but is recorded with a later date in Rutherglen.
After discovering this information, I have come back and read your post which appears to correlate with my information, thanks.
I have researched as William Bulloch's birth dates have been variously given as 1816 and 1818. Only one birth in Glasgow is recorded as occurring in 1816 to the parents of James Bulloch and Christian Erskine.
I find it somewhat off-putting in researching a common used name like William Bulloch linked to a relative whose name is variously listed as Jane, Jean and Janet. I never really sure if I am dealing with the same person, sisters or members of different families.
Thanks for all your advice. The last 24 or so hours have been fruitful in adding one general generation of ancestors to one branch of the family tree. Most days, or weeks, are this productive, unfortunately.
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Hi
The name Jean, Jane and Janet could in fact be one and the same as they are all derivatives of the same name.
See link below
http://www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Jean.html
Yours Aye
BruceL
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since I made my post, I have the the records on scotlandspeople and are inclined to think that as the couple were from different parishes, and Frances was from a non-conformist church which could not marry a couple without it first occurring in a Church of Scotland, that the marriage occurred first in Glasgow and then in the non-conformist Rutherglen Relief Church. The marriage date is the same on both records but is recorded with a later date in Rutherglen.
No.
There was never any need to have more than one marriage ceremony, even if the couple belonged to different denominations. The legal bit of the marriage was the couple being declared married before witnesses. You could actually contract a legal marriage be declaring yourself to be married before two witnesses. The presence of a clergyman was not essential, and all clergymen were equal in the eyes of the law as far as marriage was concerned, so a marriage by a clergyman of a minority denomination was just as valid as one by a minister of the Church of Scotland.
Nor is it likely that the wedding ceremony was conducted in a church building, by the way. Most marriages took place in the bride's home, or, if her parents were too far away or no longer alive, the marriage would be in the manse, or possibly her place of employment. It wasn't until the late 19th century that weddings began to be held in hotels and such-like, and weddings in church were relatively rare until the 20th century.
See http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/
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Can please put in a plea for any sightings of my Bulloch family from Glasgow?
From family papers I have siblings John, Ann, Jean, William, Thomas
Father's name either John (from family papers) or Thomas (from Williams marriage cert)
John & William came down to Liverpool, Jean and/or Thomas may also have done so.
From census info i have:
John bn 1809 Scotland He died 1854 Liverpool
William bn 1818-26 Glasgow (age varies each time) He died 1880 Liverpool
In 1841, there is a Jean Bulloch age 15 bn Scotland in John's household who could be his sister, but following her through marriage & later censuses she is more likely to be a niece - daughter of Thomas
If anyone has any info on this group of siblings & who their parents were I would be very grateful!
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George bulloch was my grtgrt granfather his wife was also called janet sure he had a daughter called janet regards david