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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Jon Lee on Wednesday 22 May 13 16:22 BST (UK)
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Hi Guys,
I am trying desperately to contact descendants of Lt William Chubb, Indian Army Reserve of Officers attached 36th Jacob's Horse.
In 1918 he was attached to the Jodhpur Lancers and I need to find a photo of him for a new regimental history that is being written in Jodhpur right now. I have been trying for months with appeals on military forums and at all the big UK museums. It would be such a shame if his photo didn't make the regimental history. I'd be so grateful if anyone could discover his birth/parents - which might then lead me to a relation.(He's not the one born in Bootle, Lancs who later lived in Sidney)
He was commissioned in Jan 1915 and joined the IARO in October - so I guess he wasn't in England (but I couldn't see where else to post this! Moderator please assist. Thanks) In 1929 he became a Captain in the IARO and in 1934 he was with remounts in India. In 1935 he relinquished his commission, aged 53. What happened next?
If anyone knows any families with 36th Jacob's Horse connections (or 29th Deccan Horse in 1918), could they please ask them to see if they have any photos with Chubb in them.
Many many thanks
Jon
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Could he be this birth?
Births June qtr 1882
William Chubb Islington 1b 226
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Hi carole,
Thanks for the welcome. No, the Islington one died in 1922. I also rejected the Axbridge and Dublin ones.
I did wonder if he was the manager of 1 Cicada Rd Wandsworth Common who arrived from Bombay on May 4th 1936 with wife Doris E aged 37
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Hi again Jon
Unless I'm missing something I think you'll find the William Chubb who died in 1922 (reg Edmonton - aged 69) was William Thomas Chubb - the possible father of your William (as I suggested in the PM via the GWF)
I also wondered about the arrivals you mentioned - the possible wife in the 1925 marriage in Bombay was transcribed as Lois Elizabeth - but I could see how Doris could perhaps be misread as Lois or vice versa - ages were a bit out but anything's possible!!
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This is the 1891 entry for the birth in Islington - all children b Islington
William T Chubb 38 printer compositer b St Pancras
Mary A 36 b Kettering Northants
William 9
Mary E 7
Grace 5
John 1
RG12 Piece 176 Folio 82 Page 13
William is not with his family in 1901 or 1911 nor does he appear independantly of his family. As he was 19yrs in 1901 - he could have been in the Army by then
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Thanks Carole
The date of his first commission is 8th Jan 1915 so I imagine that he didn't join the army till war broke out. Being that he went on the Indian Army Reserve of Officers, I would guess that he was in India at the time.
Sorry for confusing things by saying the Islington one died in 1922, of course you and Sue are both right - that was fathers' death.
My notes are not good when it comes to people I have dismissed. I searched and searched for William several months ago. I'd love your help - but you might be best to not rely on my input at the moment. I shouldn't really be doing this this week since I have finals next week to concentrate on. (Am really hoping that Rootschat will produce a Chubb guru !!!!)
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I've ordered the Islington birth certificate
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That's a shame - you didn't need to as his parents details are available via freebmd
William Thomas Chubb married Mary Ann Tingle June qtr 1881 Kettering 3B 347
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This entry from the Times of India kindly transcribed by Fibis does show that the manager from Wandsworth married to Doris E on the embarkation list was called Captain. (But technically Chubb was not a Captain till 1929 and on the embarkation list was 50 and not 54. So not in the bag yet.) Fibis has amazing info
Groom Surname Chubb
First names William
Bride Surname Woods
First names Doris Elizabeth
Place Byculla
Year 1925
month Dec
day 16
Register Entry On the 16th December at Christ Church Byculla by the Rev HJ Lane Smith CMS,Captain William Chubb Secretary Procter Branch YMCA to Doris Elizabeth daughter of Mr and Mrs Ernest E Woods of 36 Alexandra Terrace Byculla
Edition Year 1925
Edition Date 19 Dec
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Aah - so Familysearch did transcribe Doris incorrectly as Lois in their record - but this is the same marriage that gives William's father as William Thomas
William and Doris returned to the subcontinent - bound for Karachi on P and O's MONGOLIA departing London - 7th August 1936
Might be worth looking in Australia for William's death - looks like the same Doris Elizabeth Chubb landed at Tilbury - from Melbourne on 16th August 1960 - her dob was given as 24/10/1898 and her address in UK was c/o Mrs de Chaumont, 59 The Rise, Pound Hill, Crawley Sussex. She is shown as 'single' but the instruction was to use this if widowed or divorced - she was travelling as an Australian citizen/Passport holder according to the record
Sorry off out tonight so no time to look further now - but will see what time I have later
Cheers
Sue
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The William Chubb who was married to Doris Elizabeth died at home in Melbourne on 19th April 1950 - his death notice in The Argus newspaper has been transcribed with an age of 62 - looking at the original though it could be 63 - or 68 - which would tie up with a birth in 1882
If you'd like to get hold of the death certificate - that will give you a lot more information than on English ones you can download it.
First you need to search for the registration number - here (99 cents) https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search (https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search)
Then order and download ($20) - https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage (https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage)
Here is a link showing the information on a relatively modern cert - but my understanding is that you should get most of this - if not all -on an older one - though of course it will only be as accurate as the information provided by the informant
http://www.harrycroll.com/guardianship/pdf/harry_death_certificate.pdf (http://www.harrycroll.com/guardianship/pdf/harry_death_certificate.pdf)
Sincerely hope this helps - and it isn't a wild goose chase for you
Cheers
Sue
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Sue you're an absolute star! I couldn't find any mention of him or Doris in Australia.
I notice on the Karachi trip he also gave his age as 50 so it would be nice if he turned out to have been 54 and born in 1882. THEN I reckon we have my man.
Hopefully the Islington birth certificate may have a birthday of 7th Feb 1882.
I found that William and Doris had had a daughter Mignon Beryl born 28th Nov 1926 in Bombay who died 4th Aug 1930 at Sewri. They may also have had Isabel Mary who died 29th May 1934 aged 1. Perhaps it was time to resign the Commission and move on.
It does look like they might not have had any more kids.
Unfortunately, it looks like his sister Elsie died a spinster 14th Jan 1952 in Beckenham, UK and left her all to a spinster Edith mary Chubb who was either the one who died in Hammers-Lane Hill 16th Jan 1955 and left her all to Norah Faith Chubb, spinster
or
the one who died 18th June 1959 in Bromley and left all to Minnie Victoria Chubb, spinster
Descendants looking sparse so far!
Will apply for death certificate
Have emailed YMCA Procter, Mumbai !!!
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Confirmation - though still a question as to whether he is your William Chubb
He didn't come up on Ancestry's Australian Death Index with a William Chubb search - but just Chubb and year of death - 1950 - gave -
Wm Chubb
Died Oakleigh, Victoria
Aged 68
Father's Name Thos Wm
Mother's Name Mary Ann Tingle
The registration number is given as 4699 - so you should be able to save yourself the first 99cents in the search process mentioned above
Cheers Sue
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Posting around the same time Jon - sad about the descendants but hopefully will tie up some loose ends - look forward to hearing the outcome
Cheers Sue
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Well here's the death certificate for the army officer from Bombay born in Islington.
Unfortunately no children.
Photo looking unlikely unless there would be passport photos anywhere.
Let's see if the 36th Jacob's Horse guy's birthday of 7th Feb 1882 is the Islington one's.
Anyway you guys have been AMAZING help. Thanks SOOOOO MUCH !!!
Will keep you posted
Jon
Can't see how to attach !!!! Anyway he's the army officer from Bombay, son of William Thomas the compositor
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Died 19th April 1950 at 65 Willesdon Road, Oakleigh, County of Bourke (his home address)
Army Officer aged 68
cerebral thrombosis -4 days
myocarditis - 2 years
Authorised Agent T.Renton,Undertaker, Station Street, Oakleigh
Buried 21st April 1950 Spring Vale Cemetry
2 years in Victoria
Obituary with picture? Unlikely!!!
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Well, I've just received Islington's birth certificate. Date of birth 24th March 1882 (to William T Chubb and Mary Anne formerly Tingle, of 66 Westbourne Road, Islington.)
Shame it's not the same birthday as the one in the April 1934 Indian Army List.
What is funny is that that is exactly the same birth date for the one born in Bootle who also ended up in Australia! As a carter in Sydney. I followed his trail for months and reached his grand-daughters who kindly looked through all the old photos but knew he'd never ever said anything about being i the army and were hence quite incredulous.
It's a big step to say the IAL has the wrong birthdate (mind you it was strange he travelled as a man 4 years younger too. Maybee he had shell shock and didn't remember much at all!!)
Perhaps that is as far as we can go. If so, thank you both for all your help. So kind of you
Jon
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Jon - I wonder if the age variations were perhaps to "disguise" the reasonably large age difference between William and Doris - actually about 16 and a half years (if my mental arithmetic is right!! Feb or Mar 1882 to Oct 1898)
On the The Times of India marriage transcription William's age was given as 42 - he would actually have been 43 - nearly 44 - while Doris was recorded as 29 - when she would only have been just 27
I presume there wasn't a date of birth shown on William's 1950 death cert??
From a quick search it looks as though at least a couple of William's siblings did marry - so descendents might be worth chasing.
Know you've got a lot on your plate at the moment - but is it possible dates of birth have got a bit muddled - the Bootle William looks to have been registered in 1883 rather than 1882 - are there any other sources you can double check?
Cheers Sue
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OK - sorry scrap that theory - from Family Search it looks like Doris wasn't truthful about her age either!!
From her baptism record she is shown as born 25th October 1895 in Madras - rather than 1898 - baptised 1st December 1895
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Well, sly old Doris ha ha!
Yup, haven't got time for this (! :)) but this is what I have in an email about the Bootle one. Don't know where the date of birth came from (sorry!!)
Birth registered Jan-Mar 1883 West Derby, Lancs Vol 8b p.501 (Birth certificate available from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp )
Born 24th March 1882 Bootle, Liverpool? a year earlier??
he was eight years old when living at 44 Brasenose Rd, Bootle in 1891 Census with
father Dormill born Germany in 1846
mother Carstine born Germany in 1846
and sister Caldrice born 1872
he was a general carter at Gartin(?) Dock living in 1901 Census with
father Daniel born Dorchester - a dock labourer
mother Caroline born Guernsey
Married Maria Thoms in Liverpool 26th Sept 1904
On 6th June 1912 he and his family arrive in Sydney on the TSS Themistocles from London
William - a carter
Maria
Mary aged 6
Emily aged 5
Gladys aged 1
Daniel aged 3
In 1930 he is a coal lumper living at 117 Kent Street, Darling Harbour, Australia with
Emily a stenographer and
Maria (home duties)
This is the only appearance of them in the Electoral Rolls from 1911 onwards as published on Ancestry.co.uk so far
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Well Sue, if you have time in the next week or so to look at William's siblings then it would be fantastic if you would. (I used probate records a lot to find out about the spinsters.) (NB George E, Alwyn H and Gertrude E are not the same family despite also being Chubbs from Islington.)
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From the info there Jon - I'd say you are right to dismiss him - I can't see there is any chance of that William being yours
Do you have any possible alternate sources to clarify a dob for your Indian Army William??
I'll see what I can find for descendents of the Islington William - I'd still put a few bob on his being the one you are after :)
Good luck for the exams - after all this distraction
Cheers
Sue
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Well Hooray for the Mumbai YMCA and their General secretary Mr Ebeneezer Simeon who today sent this photo of W. Chubb !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If only we can prove that the Indian Army list birth date is wrong and that this Byculla Captain is my 36th Jacob's horse one. Finger's Crossed.
The power of the internet!!!!
I also think I've found a photo of Eustace Lockhart Maxwell on the FIBIS site!!! What amazing luck. Needs final confirmation that it's him, but looking very likely.
Right, back to revision