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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Daisy123 on Wednesday 22 May 13 14:38 BST (UK)
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I need help finding this lady.
This is all I know:
According to the 1851 census she was born in 1819 in Clerkenwell, Middlesex
She married Edgar Howe on 9th August 1846 at St Pancras. Edgar died on 2nd March 1851
She had 2 sons with Edgar:
Edgar Alfred Howe (1847-1849)
George Harding Howe (1850-1930)
According to the marriage her father was a Tallow Chandler and it lists his name as what looks like Youngman Hart.
I cannot find her on later census' or locate a correct birth.
Any help would be appreciated.
Many Thanks
Daisy
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Hi Daisy
I see that having been born in St Pancras, George was taken as a toddler (after Edgar's death) all the way to Greenwich for baptism - and that baptised at the same time was a baby William Thomas HART.
Could there be a family connection between them?
Baptisms, St Alphege Greenwich
28 March 1852
George Harding HOWE, born 7 Aug 1850, son of Edgar (general dealer) & Sarah, of Pleasant Row, Camden Town.
William Thomas HART, born 22 Feb 1852, son of William Samuel (fisherman) and Julia Ann, of Lamb Lane.
(I see also that George himself was later a fisherman in the Greenwich area).
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Edgar Alfred was also baptised at Greenwich!
January 2nd 1848 at St Alphege
Born October 14th 1847
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Edgar Alfred was also baptised at Greenwich!
January 2nd 1848 at St Alphege
Born October 14th 1847
Indeed - and the baptism register shows they were living in St Pancras at that time too.
Why Greenwich? Both children's births (and the deaths of Edgar senior and junior) were registered in St Pancras.
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William Samuel's father was a Thomas Hart Fisherman. William's marriage was 1847 Greenwich wife given as Julian Judge.
Jennifer
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The church was an Anglican church - nothing particularly special about it?
That is, not specific to a special group of people?
Maybe there was a family link?
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It's the Anglican parish church for Greenwich. Attractive architecture in a village setting out of the fug of central London (but if that's all they were after they could much more easily have gone from St Pancras up the hill to Hampstead or Highgate).
Probably clutching at straws but if there was a family connection on the Hart side it might help Daisy in her quest.
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I see that both Edgars were buried at St Martin-in-the-Fields burial ground in Camden Town - the baby on 18 Feb 1849 aged 14 months, and his father on 9 March 1851 aged 36.
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At the time of the 1851 census Edgar Howe's father, Harding Howe, was living in Greenwich, so it could be a Howe connection rather than a Hart one.
Daisy
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Not sure whether this will turn out to be relevant, but:
Sarah HOWE married Richard COX, Jun qtr 1858 Greenwich.
The banns register of St Paul, Deptford shows that Sarah was a widow and Richard a bachelor.
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1861 census: RG9/401/124/9
9 Malboro St, St Alphege, Greenwich
Sarah COX Head Mar 39 Fisherman's wife Clerkenwell
George do Son Un 11 Scholar Camden Town Midx
Sarah do Daur 18mo Kent Greenwich
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The COX family are still in Greenwich in 1881, but Sarah (senior)'s birthplace is given as Wickham Market, Suffolk (c 1821). ???
1881: RG11/724/8/9.
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Maybe the birth place on the 1851 census is wrong. Which would explain why I can't find a birth. Interestingly I have do not have her son George in the 1861 or 1871 census. So a remarriage would explain that.
I did notice on family search that a lot of Harts got married in the same church Sarah and Edgar did but I couldn't find another one that had a father who was a tallow chandler.
Daisy
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Filling in the gap for 1871:
1871 census: RG10/757/56/30
7 Alfred Place, Greenwich
Sarah COX Head Mar 52 Fisherman's wife London, City Road
Sarah do Daur 11 Kent Greenwich
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That's brilliant.
Any chance of a birth?? ;D
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There won't be a birth registration as she was born pre-1837. It will be a baptism if anything.
Can't see one at the moment!
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Maybe I need to order this marriage cert and see who the father is? Hopefully he'll have the same occupation and a clearer name!
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You certainly could do that.
To be fair it does look pretty clearly to be Youngman Hart in the 1846 parish register - but am struggling to find any other evidence of his existence ::)
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I wondered if Youngman was a nickname? It seems a strange first name to have!
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Odd-when Sarah re-marries in 1858 to Richard COX (her name is transcribed Hame on A") she gives her father's name as Edward Youngman???? tallow chandler.
Maureen
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Odd-when Sarah re-marries in 1858 to Richard COX (her name is transcribed Hame on A") she gives her father's name as Edward Youngman???? tallow chandler.
That's a great find - hadn't seen that but it's very clear. Father: Edward Youngman, tallow chandler. No mention of Hart. ???
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You are good. ;D
It sounds like the right Sarah, so maybe she was illegitimate?
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Hi,
One of the witnesses of the wedding was a Mary Howe (although does not look like Howe).
Sharon
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Maybe (?!) there was a previous marriage?
Sarah Youngman marries Mr Hart.
He dies, so Sarah Hart marries Edgar Howe.
He also dies, so Sarah Howe marries Richard Cox.
And so the confusion over her father's name?! ;D
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Maybe. Odd though (if so) that on marrying Edgar she'd claim to be a spinster daughter of Youngman Hart ???
I'd have thought her mother's (re)marriage & Sarah's acquisition of a stepfather a more likely scenario for the name confusion, to be honest.
But who knows!
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OK! I'll concede yours is a more likely scenario! ;D
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Hi listers,
Edgar Howe was the 3rd Great Grandfather of my wife and like others I am still searching for information about Sarah.
There is a baptism on FamilySearch that may have a connection and may add to the possibility that Sarah was illegitimate. It also adds to the Wickham Market connection, which is still unconfirmed.
Regards
peejayess
Pete Spain
Ramsgate, Kent, England
Details:Sarah Hart, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: Sarah Hart
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 21 May 1820
Christening Place: WICKHAM MARKET,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 25 Mar 1819
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Hart