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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: janetrizvi on Wednesday 22 May 13 12:25 BST (UK)

Title: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: janetrizvi on Wednesday 22 May 13 12:25 BST (UK)

James Clarke was a tenant farmer in Gills townland, Macosquin parish, Coleraine, working a holding of 83 acres, the largest in the townland, according to Griffith's Valuation. His landlord was John Cromie.
I'm pretty sure James Clarke was my great-grandfather, father of John Clarke (later of Old Aberdeen, Scotland) my grandfather, born 1853. James Clarke's wife was Robina Bryce (b. 1814), daughter of Rev. James Bryce (1767-1857), who came from Scotland & settled in Killaig around 1805.
I haven't been able to find the parentage of James Clarke. Family tradition has it that he was 'true Irish'; on the other hand he was definitely Presbyterian rather than Catholic.
A James Clarke was baptised on 30 Aug. 1820 in Drumachose, son of William Clarke & Mary nee McLaughlin. This is approximately appropriate as a d.o.b. for my great-grandfather, except for making him six years younger than his wife Robina.
Can anyone help, either by identifying the Drumachose James Clarke as the tenant farmer at Gills, or by ruling out such identification? And/or by suggesting how I might find out the parentage of James Clarke of Gills.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 22 May 13 12:52 BST (UK)

Welcome to Rootschat  :)

Coleraine Chronicle, 8 June 1872: HONOURS- Queen's College, Belfast.- We are glad to observe that the examinations recently held in Belfast, at the close of the session, Mr. John Clarke (third son of Mr. Jas. Clarke, Gills, and grandson of the late Rev. James Bryce, Killeag) has carried off three firsts and a prize in French- first in Greek and Latin and English, as well as first prizeman og first class at the general examination. He has thus retained the position which he gained in classics for his entrance scholarship. It is highly creditable to the Coleraine Academical Institution that Mr. Clarke, last year's Clothworkers' scholar, should have taken such a high position for his first year; and, in particular, Mr. Clarke's place of first in English reflects the highest credit on the Principal of Institution, T.G. Houston, Esq., M.A., and shows that at the Institution the basis of a sound English education receives as great attention as that of the hugh branches.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: janetrizvi on Wednesday 22 May 13 12:57 BST (UK)

Many thanks for this.
But it still doesn't get me any further in the search for the Clarke antecedents beyond James Clarke!

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 22 May 13 13:06 BST (UK)

But is does connect John Clarke to James Clarke of Gills and thus to Rev. James Bryce of Killaig which you seemed unsure about ("I'm pretty sure James Clarke was my great-grandfather".) Rev. James Bryce did arrive from Scotland in 1805- coming over first for his installation and then going back to Scotland to bring his family over.

It's unlikely that there will be records far enough back to verify the parents of James Clarke of Gills. However, according to Rev. Bryce, James Clarke was born 8 Dec.1820.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: janetrizvi on Wednesday 22 May 13 13:13 BST (UK)

'According to Rev. Bryce'---can you give me any more info about this source?
Presumably he noted James Clarke's d.o.b. in connection with the latter's marriage to his daughter?

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 22 May 13 13:28 BST (UK)

"According to Rev. Bryce" is from notebook in which he wrote baptisms, marriages and other events including misc. entries like James Clarke's birthday (not in connection with the marriage).

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: janetrizvi on Wednesday 22 May 13 13:41 BST (UK)

How does one access Rev. James Bryce's notebook?
Is there no context for the note of James Clarke's birth? Can we be certain that it refers to his future son-in-law?
The James Clarke born 8 Dec. 1820 then can't be the same James Clarke who was baptised in Drumachose on 30 August 1820.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 22 May 13 13:49 BST (UK)

"James Clarke born 8 Decr.1820" appears towards the end of the notebook between "John Millar born 21st September 1820" and "William Kennedy Ballycaen born Septr 1 1802." The notebook is in local custody.

It looks as though it's been microfilmed along with other church records- P[resbyterian] Killaig:
Baptisms, 1805-56 (with index) and 1860-1944; marriages, 1836-43 (with index) and 1865-1903; communicants' list, c.1818-c.1839 MIC1P/414
http://www.proni.gov.uk/guide_to_church_records.pdf

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: akanex2 on Wednesday 22 May 13 14:21 BST (UK)

I had a look at the 1831 census (only names head of household) and there was no Clarke family in Gills townland at that date - given the size of James's farm I would have hoped for evidence of it being passed down in the family.

There was however an Alexander Clarke in the neighbouring townland of Coole Glebe which borders James's farm on the Griffith website maps - this is a lot more likely to be James's family than the one in Drumachose which is approximately 20 miles away.  No proof of course, but did James happen to have a son called Alexander?

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 22 May 13 15:11 BST (UK)

but did James happen to have a son called Alexander?
Known children: Samuel Murdock (c1846), Jessie (c1848), James Bryce (c1850), John (1853), Catherine Brown (1855).

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 22 May 13 18:47 BST (UK)

I think I've found two very important clues regarding James Clarke's family but need to check the death index and some online resources to confirm ages, etc. so will repost again later.

Update- have found James Clarke's mother, father, sister, an uncle and at least one cousin so far... more to come

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 22 May 13 21:34 BST (UK)

Have now confirmed the names of James Clarke's parents and grandparents but there should be plenty more to find on the family.

Neill Clarke (d.bef.1859) m. Jane (c1771-1859)
    Coleraine Chronicle, 12 Feb.1859: At Portstewart, on Thursday, the 10th inst., Jane, relict of the late Mr. Neill Clarke, in the 88th year of her age. Her remains will be removed for interment to Ballylaggan, on Monday, the 14th inst., at 10 A.M. Friends will please accept this intimation.
    Ballylaggan R.P. Church: Erected in memory of Samuel Clarke Portstewart who died 11th February 1869 aged 69 years and Jane Clarke his mother who died 10th Febry 1859 aged 89 years. They were lovely and pleasant in their lives and in death they were not divided. Also Mary Clarke his wife who died 12th May 1864 aged 87 years.
1.a   Samuel Clarke (d.11 Feb.1859 Portstewart), linen merchant, m. Mary (c1779-1864)
        The Will of Samuel Clarke late of Portstewart in the County of Londonderry Linen Merchant deceased who died 11 February 1859 at Portstewart aforesaid was proved at Londonderry by the oaths of James Thomas of Ballydivitt Farmer and James Clarke of Coleraine both in said County the Executors. Effects £385 7s 1d. Granted 28 Feb 1860. Will dated 7 Feb.1859 mentions mother Jane, sister Jane, wife Mary, brother James of Coleraine & his son James S. Clarke, son James, grandson Samuel Murdock Clarke. See www.proni.gov.uk to read Will.
        Died at Portstewart on Thursday 12th May 1864 MARY Relict on the late Samuel CLARKE. Her remains will be removed for interment in the Graveyard of Ballylaggan on Saturday, the 14th May, at the hour of One o’clock p.m.   James Clarke
        Coleraine Chronicle, 21 May 1864: At Portstewart, on the 12th inst., Mary, relict of the late Samuel Clarke, aged 85 years.
        1.b   Jane Clarke (d.1885)
         Died at her residence, Church Hill, Portstewart, on Tuesday the 7th July 1885 Miss JANE CLARK. Her remains will be removed for interment in Ballylaggan Graveyard, on Thursday 9th inst. at Ten o’clock a.m.  James Clarke Gills Cottage, Coleraine 7th July 1885
        2.b   James Clarke (1820-1892) m. Robina Bryce- family.
        Died at his residence Gills Cottage Coleraine on Wednesday the 30th December 1891 JAMES CLARKE in the 72nd year of his age. His remains will be removed for interment in Killaig Burying-ground, on Friday 1st January 1892 at Twelve o’clock, noon.   Samuel M. Clarke
2.a   James Clark, Coleraine.
        1.b   James S. Clarke.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: janetrizvi on Thursday 23 May 13 09:00 BST (UK)

Gosh, it's Christmas! Not only the facts that you've unearthed, but also quite a lot of inferences from the facts. Samuel Clarke died one day after his mother Jane, & the biblical Saul-&-Jonathan quotation on his gravestone, referring to him & his mother, indicates a close bond between them.
The full text of Samuel Clarke's will is online, & I've spent the morning studying it. He left to his mother a life-interest in his house, which on her death was to be transferred to his sister Jane. His wife Mary, who appears to have been either 11 or 13 years older than him, was required to vacate the house, & his executors to find suitable lodgings for her & pay her a monthly allowance. Whew! He can't have liked her a lot. Makes me wonder what the circumstances of their marriage must have been.
'Plenty more to find on the family', you say. I'll bet! Wd. there be any way of finding out the maiden names of the 2 wives for a start? And I'm intrigued by the name Neill, which may indeed go some way towards corroborating my family's tradition that the Clarkes were 'true Irish'. But am I right in supposing that 'true Irish' implies Catholic? How common wd. a change of religion from Catholic to Presbyterian have been?
Anyhow, very many thanks for your effort so far.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 23 May 13 10:04 BST (UK)

Have never heard the expression "true Irish" so can't comment on it's meaning but I doubt the Clarkes were Catholic earlier. If you look at the information I posted you'll notice that Samuel Clarke, his mother and wife (and other family members not listed on headstone) were buried in Ballylaggan Reformed Presbyterian graveyard. Samuel also left a sizable bequest to the Reformed Church. Only Covenanters (Reformed Presbyterians) would have been buried in Ballylaggan so it seems clear that this was the family's religion (when James Clarke married Robina Bryce he perhaps, because of her father's position, went over to the Presbyterians*).The background of the Covenanters was in Scotland so 'Neill' was probably from the Scottish rather than the 'Neal' or 'Cornelius' of the Irish.
Late last night I found the death of a William Kidd Clarke at Portstewart and Kidd is another name found in Ballylaggan. Covenanters tended to marry within their religion (as is often still the case) and I suspect that there's also a Murdock connection but would be difficult to find proof now.


* Killaig Presbyterian Church itself was a Secession Church - see here for historical backgroud of Presbyterianism in Ireland:
http://www.ancestryireland.com/irish-presbyterianism/presbyterian-ancestors/seceders-non-subscribers-and-covenanters/

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: janetrizvi on Thursday 23 May 13 12:54 BST (UK)

Thanks for the ref. on Irish Presbyterianism. Putting 2 & 2 together, it does look as if the Clarkes were originally of Scottish Covenanting origin.
My info is from the memoir written by John Clarke's eldest daughter, Mary Gavin Clarke (1881--1976), A Short Life of Ninety Years, published privately in Edinburgh in 1973. She writes, 'Of the family of James Clarke, my paternal grandfather, almost nothing is known except that his father was true Irish & presumably of Celtic origin.' No ref., so perhaps only hearsay & inference & way off the mark. She goes on, 'My father grew up in an atmosphere of somewhat rigid piety & religious observance in a forgotten sect of Presbyterianism, the Original Seceders'. Here she's on firmer ground. That's obviously the Killaig connection, & I'm sure you're right that James Clarke of Gills must have joined that church at the instance of his wife Robina Bryce.
But then how do we identify the James Clarke whose baptism Rev. James Bryce records in his notebook with James Clarke son of Samuel Clarke? The former wd. presumably belong to the Killaig congregation, i.e. to a family of Seceders whereas, as you point out, the Clarkes seem to have been Reformed Presbyterians. It seems that by establishing James Clarke of Gill's parentage, we've lost his d.o.b.---though, to be sure, the record of his death indicates the birth-year as 1820 (Dec.1891, aged about 71).

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 23 May 13 13:13 BST (UK)

But then how do we identify the James Clarke whose baptism Rev. James Bryce records in his notebook with James Clarke son of Samuel Clarke? The former wd. presumably belong to the Killaig congregation, i.e. to a family of Seceders whereas, as you point out, the Clarkes seem to have been Reformed Presbyterians. It seems that by establishing James Clarke of Gill's parentage, we've lost his d.o.b.---though, to be sure, the record of his death indicates the birth-year as 1820 (Dec.1891, aged about 71).

The birthdate for James Clarke in Rev. Bryce's notebook is not a baptismal record, just a misc. note when James Clarke was born. There is no other Clarke family in Rev. Bryce's congregation.
It may be that more details will be found in the record for Ballylaggan R.P. Church but those records are not online or available on microfilm in PRONI, Belfast. Baptisms for 1800s list date of baptism and child's name in most cases so might be difficult to make connections from the records.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 03 June 13 09:21 BST (UK)

Came across this obituary in a file- quite an unusual tribute to a woman in a time where relatively few men would have merited such an obituary in the local newspaper.

Coleraine Chronicle, 29 Jan.1887: DEATH OF MRS. CLARKE, GILLS COTTAGE
Another notable member of the community has passed away in the person of the late Mrs. Clarke, wife of James Clarke, Esq., of Gills Cottage, near Coleraine, whose death, after a short illness, which was not expected to terminate fatally, took place on the 22ndinst., and whose remains were, on last Tuesday, laid in the family vault in Killaig burying-ground, beside the church in which her father preached for considerably over half a century. No person could be even a short time in Mrs. Clarke’s company without feeling conscious of being in the presence of no ordinary woman; but then, she was a member of no ordinary family, and being a daughter of the late Rev. James Bryce, of Killaig, and sister of the venerable Rev. Dr. Bryce, of Belfast. Her naturally powerful intellect was strengthened by a classical education, which she received from her father, who, at a time when intermediate schools were few and far between, prepared so many young men for college, many of whom are still prominent members of their profession. This higher education, however, although rare among her sex in those days, did not unfit her for taking her full in all the duties of a wife and a mother, as she took as much pride in the products of her dairy, for example, as in the exercise of her intellectual powers. The respect and esteem in which she and her husband were held by all classes in the community were well evinced by the large funeral procession which assembled on the road overlooking the comfortable, well-kept homestead, lying so cosily in that sheltered nook on the banks of the Bann, where they had spent so many happy years, and reared a family of sons and daughters, who are a credit to their parents, and of whom the district may well feel proud. Two of their sons occupy eminent positions in Scotland- one of them a leading merchant in Glasgow, and the other at the top of the educational profession in the old historic city of Aberdeen.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: kingskerswell on Monday 03 June 13 10:47 BST (UK)

Hi,
   The obituary isn't too unusual as my Great Grandmother, Margaret Morrison, had a similar one published in the Coleraine Constitution in 1905.

Regards

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 03 June 13 11:01 BST (UK)

It is quite unusual for 1880s but by 1900 longer obituaries and more death notices were appearing in the local newspapers.

Title: Re: Clarke, Coleraine
Post by: janetrizvi on Monday 03 June 13 12:53 BST (UK)

How kind of you to remember me & send on my great-grandmother's obit. A great-grandmother to be proud of! Very many thanks.