RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: starrynight on Tuesday 21 May 13 22:12 BST (UK)

Title: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Tuesday 21 May 13 22:12 BST (UK)
Hi there,
This is my first post so please bear with me!
I have been going round in circles trying to find any of the births of the children of Jeremiah Kellehar (b. abt 1867 in Lambeth/Bermondsey) and his wife Maria (nee Loveland, b. 1869 in Camberwell). The couple were married in Bermondsey on 9 June 1889, and I have found them in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses. Their children were as follows:
Alice b. 1890 in Bermondsey
Ellen b. 1892 in Bermondsey
Maria b. 1893 in Bermondsey
Jane b. 1895 in Bermondsey
Nora b. 1897 in Bermondsey
Annie. b. 1898 in Bermondsey
Elizabeth Mary b. 7 Oct 1900 in Billingshurst, Sussex
Catherine b. 1905 in Billingshurst, Sussex
Florence Mary b. 1906 in Billingshurst, Sussex
John Thomas b. 30 June 1908 in Billingshurst, Sussex
Ruth b. 1910 in Billingshurst, Sussex

However, I have had no luck in finding any of the children's births.  I know Elizabeth's DOB because she was my great-grandmother and my nan told me it.  I know John Thomas's because I am in touch with one of his daughters.  I just can't understand why I can't find any of them.  In censuses the Kellehars have been Kelly's, so maybe it's a name variation thing, although I have tried everything I can think of.
Any advice or help would be gratefully received!
Thank you  :)
 
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 21 May 13 22:20 BST (UK)
Hi starrynight

Welcome to rootschat  :)
A possibility
June qtr 1890 
Kalahar    Alice Maria -     St. Saviour    1d   82

March qtr 1892 
Kalaher    Ellen Elizabeth        St. Olave    1d   271

Dec qtr 1893   
Kalehar    Maria Annie        St. Olave    1d   215

Dec qtr1895   
Kelahar    Jane        St. Olave    1d   209
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: Bryn Celyn on Tuesday 21 May 13 22:29 BST (UK)
I searched on Ancestry for Alice born 1890, and used the widest possible search parameters, and one record that appeared was for Edith A Kelleher born 1890 in Shoreditch (opposite Bermondsey, with "just the Thames" separating them, but connected by the Rotherhithe Tunnel, at least after about 1908.  She then seems to appear in censuses as KELLER, and her place of birth seems to change from Shoreditch to Bermondsey to Battersea.  Her father is given in the censuses as Jeremiah Keller and her mother as Sarah M Keller.

I am not suggesting that this is your family, but it might be worth looking at variations of Keller.
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Tuesday 21 May 13 22:55 BST (UK)
Wow!  Thank you both so much for your super-quick and helpful replies - I wish I'd thought to post on here weeks ago, would have saved me a lot of time going nowhere!!
Rosie, I think you must have found them, it certainly looks right, thanks so much!  I take my hat off to you  :)
I think I will be back with my other 'brick walls' before too long! 

Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 22 May 13 08:48 BST (UK)
Do come back, we love brickwalls.  ;D

There are still these to find though and I have the dog to walk in a minute  ::)

Nora b. 1897 in Bermondsey
Annie. b. 1898 in Bermondsey
Elizabeth Mary b. 7 Oct 1900 in Billingshurst, Sussex
Catherine b. 1905 in Billingshurst, Sussex
Florence Mary b. 1906 in Billingshurst, Sussex
John Thomas b. 30 June 1908 in Billingshurst, Sussex
Ruth b. 1910 in Billingshurst, Sussex
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 22 May 13 09:05 BST (UK)
I wonder if tney got the ages of the children mixed up on the census?

There is an Elizabeth Kalaher registered 1905 st olave, for example
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Wednesday 22 May 13 13:25 BST (UK)
Yes, a mix up over the ages seems possible, seeing as they couldn't get their surname consistent!! 
With Elizabeth, however, I'm sure of her DOB...
Thanks for your help
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: RayDen on Wednesday 22 May 13 14:26 BST (UK)
From London Metropolitan births & baptisms:

Baptism Alice Maria Keleharthe 6 April 1890 (born 17 March 1890) daughter of Jeremiah & Maria at
St.George the Martyr, Southwark:   fathers occupation Hoop Bender.

No sign of any other baptism's

Ray
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Wednesday 22 May 13 21:52 BST (UK)
Brilliant! Thanks so much Ray, that's the right one as Jeremiah was indeed a hoop bender. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it  :)
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: RayDen on Wednesday 22 May 13 22:42 BST (UK)
What is interesting on the 1911 census is that on the column for nationality all the family (except mother Maria) are shown as Catholic.   This is a good reason why no baptism's are shown because catholic baptisms are not included on the archives. Its a wonder that Alice Maria was on the register.

Also from the 1911 census it shows Ruth as 5 months old.  With the census taken on the 2nd/3rd of April that would give a birth around October/November 1910 so she should be registered either Dec Qtr 1910 or March Qtr 1911.  Doing a freebmd search for all Ruth's registered countrywide in those 2 quarters shows nothing resembling Kelleher - very strange

Ray
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: RayDen on Wednesday 22 May 13 23:14 BST (UK)
It looks like the Elizabeth Kalahar born St Olave 1905 is on the 1911 census in Bermondsey with her parents John & Caroline Kalahar.  Sister Caroline registered 1903 St Olave.

Ray
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: Beth42 on Wednesday 22 May 13 23:42 BST (UK)
London, England, Confirmation Records have entries for Florence Mary Kellehar aged 14, on 15 Mar 1921 at Camberwell, St Bartholomew, Surrey and also on the same date John Kellehar aged 13- both at the same address 83 Verney Road. May not be your family.
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: RayDen on Thursday 23 May 13 09:20 BST (UK)
on the 1921 London Electoral Register there is Maria Kelleher living at 85 Verney Road.  The other person recorded at the address is a James Kelleher. The same Maria & James are at that address until at least 1927.

However on the 1918 Register there is a Jeremiah & Maria at 53 Verney Road!!!

To much of a coincidence I think -

Ray
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: RayDen on Thursday 23 May 13 09:50 BST (UK)
Florence M Kelleher marries a Arthur Burden Sept Qtr 1925 at St.Olave 1d 372

Ray
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Thursday 23 May 13 16:43 BST (UK)
Thanks Ray and Beth - Verney Road is my family, my nan grew up at number 83.  Ray, I had wondered about James Kellehar on the Electoral Register, I wondered if Jeremiah's middle name was James or something like that and he interchanged them but I haven't been able to find his birth yet (surprise surprise), so until then I won't know. 
I've got the marriages (thanks though).  I tried every which way I could think of spelling Kellehar on FreeBMD with no joy at all.  Would be great to find at least one of the Billingshurst births!
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: RayDen on Thursday 23 May 13 17:25 BST (UK)
Do you know Jeremiahs fathers name - from the marriage certificate?  Its just that there is a Jeremiah Kenly on the 1871 census in Bermondsey with a father Jeremiah:

Household Members:   Name               Age
                                Jeremiah Kenly       32     Ireland
                                Elizth Kenly       30     Ireland
                                Margaret Kenly       10     Bermondsey
                                Mary Kenly        7      Bermondsey
                                Jeremiah Kenly        6      Bermondsey  (1865 birth)
                                Edward Kenly       2 Months

On the 1881 census his age is 13 giving a 1868 birth.  Again I can't find any name that looks like Kelleher for a Jeremiah birth between 1865 & 1868 in Bermondsey (or Lambeth) but there is a Jeremiah Connelly in Bermondsey in 1865 which could have been heard as Kenly?

Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Thursday 23 May 13 23:47 BST (UK)
Hi Ray,
Yes Jeremiah's father was a Jeremiah too, and a hoop bender like his son.  I think I have him on the 1871 and 1881 censuses - surname is Kelley in 1871 and Kelly in 1881.  I haven't found them prior to 1871 yet, although I think they should be in the same area in 1861 as their son Ted was born in Tooley Street in about 1859...
Appreciate your help!

Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: RayDen on Friday 24 May 13 10:51 BST (UK)
There is a Jeremiah Kelly birth registered Dec 1867 St George Southwark 1d 136 (right area and date)

Can't find any 1871 census for any other likely Jeremiah apart from yours.

There is also a birth which matches Ellen:

Ellen Louise Kelly Dec qtr 1870 Lambeth 1d 389
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Friday 24 May 13 22:54 BST (UK)
Thanks for that, I'll check it out over the weekend  :)
I was told that the family pronounced Kellehar as Kelly-er, so I can understand how it could have been registered as Kelly in the census, but I must admit I thought that births would have been registered as something a bit closer to Kellehar.  This is the first time in my research that I've come across a name changing in this way - it makes life difficult, doesn't it?!
Thanks again!
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 28 May 13 07:58 BST (UK)
I see there is a listing of Billingshurst gravestones on here

http://www.billingshurst.gov.uk/Billingshurs-Parish-Council/churchyard_inspection_report-5596.aspx

Which may be of use if tbey stayed there.

It seems to be limited, as many have no names listed, so presumably tney were illegible.
The list looks quite daunting with 243 pages, but I just whizzed through tne first 20 or 30 in just a minute or two , so it wouldnt take very long to glance tnrough it all for Kellehers or similar.
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: starrynight on Tuesday 28 May 13 11:02 BST (UK)
Thanks for that - the good thing about it is that it's a Word document so you can enter a search for what you're looking for, which makes things quicker!
However, I know the family were back in Bermondsey by 1921 at the latest, and didn't return to Billingshurst.  But thanks for the thought though!
Title: Re: Please help! I can't locate births of Kelleher/Kellehar children in Bermondsey
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 28 May 13 13:25 BST (UK)
I didnt even realise that.
Mind you, a search isnt much good when there are so many possilibilites for the spelling of the name. More reliable to run through and see what catches the eye!