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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: maggie55 on Monday 20 May 13 16:29 BST (UK)
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Help needed tracing Rebecca Kelly ,Mother Rebecca father William given names on Baptism at St Ann`s Ancoat,s in 1866 ,i can find no trace of her birth or records since that date.Thank you
Maggie
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Is the fathers name definitely William and not Daniel?
There is an 1871 entry for Rebecca Annie Kelly aged 5 b Salford - parents Daniel (occ joiner) & Rebecca
What was her fathers occupation on the baptismal record?
Where did you find the baptismal record - was it via an online resource or did you find it yourself in the parish records
Where does Rebecca fit into your FH? Are you descended from one of her siblings?
If so - if you have that sibling on a census entry with parents William & Rebecca - can you post full details
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Hi Carole ,Yes the fathers name is given as William (could they have made a mistake ?)
The record of baptisms 1866 was on the CD from St Ann`s church
No other name except Rebecca no second for the child ,
i am unsure how to use the CD at the moment maybe there will be more info on it ,
This Rebecca appears to be the child of my 2nd g grandmother also called Rebecca (kelly)b Tipperary 1827 father James , she was married to a William Kelly(no surname change ) he died in 1850 she later has a child Ann Amelia by John Speakman in 1864 although not married the child amelia my g grandmother was given his surname ,it would seem her mother 2 years later has Rebecca 1866 and had reverted back to the name Kelly and gave the fathers name as William .The mother Rebecca 1827 later married Thomas Gregson of Wigan in 1884,
if any of this rings a bell i am on ancestry where i have census returns and a couple of photographs.
Maggie
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Although the Daniel Kelly I found was b Ireland - wife Rebecca was b Shropshire so we can forget that 1871 entry
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The line i have followed is my g grandmother i have not found anything yet for brothers or sister`s of her mother Rebecca, to find Kelly`s is like looking for a needle in a haystack
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When a child is baptised - I would have thought that both parents would be present unless the husband was recently deceased
You say that Rebecca's husband William died 1850 so Rebecca was only 23 at that time.
Ann Amelia was not born until 1864 - 14yrs later and Rebecca 16yrs later
I can't find an 1871 entry for Amelia under either Kelly or Speakman - have you found her?
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Hi Maggie,
you say you have census returns.
I see a William and Rebecca in 1851 2224/ 23/ 43.
However, you say he died in 1850 and this Rebecca is born Limerick- so perhaps not :-\
heywood
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When a child is baptised - I would have thought that both parents would be present unless the husband was recently deceased
You say that Rebecca's husband William died 1850 so Rebecca was only 23 at that time.
Ann Amelia was not born until 1864 - 14yrs later and Rebecca 16yrs later
I can't find an 1871 entry for Amelia under either Kelly or Speakman - have you found her?
Apologies of the top of my head i gave a wrong date ,William d 9/Feb/1852 he is given on this certificate as a shoemaker ,on his marriage he was a cabinet maker so i am still a little hesitant to put this certificate onto my tree,i could scan and send it to you .
i cannot find ann amelia in any census 1871 as of yet but family stories tell of her being in a convent as a child .later Ann Amelia takes the gregson name on 1 census but then uses the Speakman name on her Marriage ,please send me your user name on Ancentry or email i will send you a link to my tree
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Hi Maggie,
you say you have census returns.
I see a William and Rebecca in 1851 2224/ 23/ 43.
However, you say he died in 1850 and this Rebecca is born Limerick- so perhaps not :-\
heywood
Hi Heywood ,Sorry wrong date given for death i should have said 1852.
On census returns when she is living (widow) /then married to Thomas Gregson(a widower) she gives on birth place on 1 as Tipperary of which i am certain (My Grandfather told me )and limerick on another, why i don't know .
i think William died then she met John Speakman who gave his name to Ann Amelia Baptism St Ann's,then maybe had the other child Rebecca and to avoid a base entry put the name of her deceased husband if her and the father were no longer together ,if you too are on Ancestry send me your user name or email i will give you access .
Maggie
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I also have Rebecca in 1861 age 34 as a boarder @ 67 Bradford road ,New Cross given as lodging with a Elizabeth Butterworth a US citizen ,Rebecca gives her status as unmarried ,Family stories have her daughter Ann Amelia being in the USA as a very young women although i have not made a connection as yet,as she Ann A must have only been 16 or 17 when she married a John McMannon in Wigan .So i wonder was it Rebecca who was in the US
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A bit of a sum up
Rebecca & William married 8.10.1850 - both aged 23 and he was a cabinet maker
They are on the 1851 but Rebecca's birthplace is shown as Limerick - not Tipperary
William died 1852 - did Rebecca report the death? Quite a shift in occupation from cabinet maker to shoemaker in 2yrs
1861 Rebecca shows herself as unmarried age 34 in lodgings in Manchester - no children
1864 she gives birth to Amelia Ann Speakman illegitimate daughter by John Speakman and registered under his surname
1866 she gives birth to another illegitimate daughter - Rebecca who is registered as Kelly and whose baptism shows the father as her deceased husband William
Neither Rebecca or her daughters are found in 1871 or 1881 under Kelly or Speakman which is annoying as we could do with a few clues.
Amelia married John McMannon 14.12.1882 in Wigan
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NNJF-C1V
There is no census entry anywhere for a Rebecca Kelly born 1866 Lancashire and no death reg between 1866-1871. If it wasn't for the baptismal entry we wouldn't know she existed
Was she adopted? Was she taken to the USA at a young age? Perhaps that's why we can't find Rebecca snr on the 1871/1881 census but she is not on the 1880 US census
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i have Rebecca senior as i say as the mother of Rebecca 1866 the godmother was Ellen Hudson was also a boarder with Rebecca senior in 1861 .
I then have Rebecca senior in 1881 living at 14 Whalley street Ancoat`s? she is shown as the wife of Thomas Gregson but they did not marry untill 1884 in Wigan when Amelia (as she was known )stood for her mother ,and Amelia is using the name gregson on the cesus but a year later uses the Speakman name on her marriage to John Mcmannon (who by the way vanished before she married my g grandfather in 1901 and again uses the name Speakman ,that`s another story believe me it is mind boggling lol
Then i have Rebecca Senior in 1891 in Earlstown married name Gregson then nothing after that still no sign`s of Rebecca junior
The young Rebecca? yes You may be right about the adoption it looks like her mother had a very mixed life i would say :) Her daughter Amelia was the same she had 3 more births that we know nothing about crazy isnt it ,i wish i could find out where the mother Rebecca came from i know for definate it was Tipperary but i am at a dead end no sign of a birth there for her .
The reason i have so much information is because i started to follow the witness on the Mcmannon certificate ,so i think i will try Ellen Hudson now and the lady they were lodging with in 1861 i wonder could she have taken Rebecca back to her birthplace in the USA ? is there a relation ship to rebecca there ? a possibility maybe .
Maggie