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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Leofwine on Monday 20 May 13 03:21 BST (UK)
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I've been researching the names of the soldiers commemorated on the Brompton (Kent) War Memorial, and have found information on 45 of the 50 First World War names, but the last 5 are eluding me.
Kent Fallen has no information on them (http://www.kentfalle...TS/BROMPTON.pdf) and I can't locate them in the censuses or military records. Anyone able to find anything about them?
Driver T. Butler, Royal Horse Artillery.
Private A.W. Doyle, Royal Army Service Corps
Private A. H. Goodchild, Royal Army Ordnance Corps
Private R. Scott, Durham Light Infantry
Private W.H. Stace, Worcestershire Regiment
I might have found Goodchild's service number (S/4804) from the medal rolls, but can find no further information.
Thanks for any help you may be able to give with these men.
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Cwgc.org has an R W Scott from Durham light infantry
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Surrey recruitment register
A Goodchild 12318
Army Ordnance Corps
Derby scheme men 16 th Aug to 8 th Dec 1916
Age 32 yrs 9mo
Prewar record for a
William Henry Stace
Old Brompton, Chatham
Army Service corps ( seems to have been in army less than a year in 1902)
Joined Woolwich 1902
Mother Elizabeth Stace, 19,Manor Street, Old Brompton
Brothers Thomas, John, Oliver.
This tallies with 1891 census with parents Edwin and Elizabeth at correct address.
Not sure if either is your man but something to think about.
I don t understand why they are not on CWGC site.
Cathy
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An Alfred H. Goodchild bc.1879 died Sept.qtr.1919 Medway.
Did he die back in England of wounds suffered in WW1?
Annette
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National Archives has an index reference for William Henry Stace born 23 October 1882, Old Brompton. Need to pay to download. Appears to be in Royal Navy. Also a reference to someone of same name in Air Ministry records commencing 1918 (RAF established that year).
Worcestershire Regiment Roll of Honour has no Stace.
This may be of interest:
http://infromthecold.org/
Imber
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Thanks for the various replies, some food for thought there. I've ordered the death cert for Goodchild so maybe that will throw some light on that one.
If anyone has any additional clues I'd love to know.
I'm also surprised that on one memorial there are 5 names that don't seem to have a CWGC entry, in other people's experience, is that usual?
Also, in researching the memorial I found 4 more local men who died serving in the war who are not commemorated on the memorial. Is this an unusually high number on a memorial of 50 names?
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I'm afraid it all sounds quite normal where local memorials are concerned. Anything is possible. A few weeks ago I helped someone undertaking similar research into a war memorial and found several for her, one getting married in 1930!! Often they are on CWGC but not in the form you expect. Some used an alias. Many are missed off CWGC because they died of their wounds having been invalided out but then overlooked. The link I gave you to In From The Cold covers this.
Imber
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I feel sure that the William Henry Stace already mentioned is indeed the man you seek. I cannot explain why there seems to be no mention of him after 1902 either in war records or UK Deaths Index.
His parents were Edwin Stace (b.Woolwich ca.1847 who was an army man himself for a while) and Elizabeth Gregory married Dec.qtr.1879 Medway. Their children were:
Edwin Richard b.1880 (served Royal Fusiliers WW1)
Elizabeth Emma b.Sept.qtr.1882 Cork, Ireland
William Henry b.Dec.qtr.1884 Kinsale, Ireland (shown on 1891 census as Queenstown)
then twins
Thomas James b.1887 Plumstead (served in either RAMC or Army Ordnance Corps WW1)
John Alfred b.1887 Plumstead (served 28th London Regiment WW1)
Mary Ann (Annie) b.1889 Plumstead
Oliver George b.1893 Burham, Kent
Daisy Rosa b.1895 Brompton, Kent
Is Oliver George on the Brompton Memorial? He served in the Royal West Surrey Regiment and died 7/11/1914 Leper, Belgium (so soon after the war started). He should definitely be on it.
When William Henry briefly served in army 1902 (having already briefly served in Royal Navy) he gave his n.o.k. as his mother and brothers, not his father Edwin who was still alive and kicking (died 1918). Wonder if he and his father were estranged somehow and perhaps he'd changed his name when he registered again in WW1 hence our being unable to find him. Can find no trace of this individual emigrating nor a death in UK Death Index.
Someone has a public tree on Ancestry and wonder if it could be worth your while contacting the submitter of this to see if they have any further details of William Henry - there could be some kind of story here. The tree does show the death of Oliver George in 1914.
I have also looked at the list of 306 men executed for cowardice in WW1 who received a pardon in 2006 (I think, fairly recently anyway). He doesn't show there nor on the list of over 1000 'missed' individuals on the website mentioned by IMBER.
Annette
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IMBER - I've reported W. H. Stace to the In From The Cold project, and will send the others if I find out enough about them.
Annete7 - Oliver George Stace is on the memorial and was fairly easy to find out about, which is why I'm surprised his brother is proving so elusive. Perhaps, as suggested, he served under an alias.
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I keep coming back to an Arthur Watts Doyle who was born 1869 Rochester, Kent.
He served 21 years in the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, discharged 8/1/1909.
His widowed mother Elizabeth lived for a number of years at 24 Westcourse St., Old Brompton, Kent hence my wondering if this man could be A W Doyle.
He would have been in his 40's during the war - could he have rejoined the army during this period offering his skilled services? He appears to have died in the Sept.qtr.1920 Woolwich (where he lived 1911) - as this date is so soon after the war ended is it possible that he did indeed re-enlist during the war, receiving injuries which ultimately caused his death in 1920?
Knowing the family had a link to Old Brompton I just can't help wondering.
Annette
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Thanks Annette, that one definitely looks worth following up.
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I've looked at Arthur Watts Doyle and the Brompton connection grows stronger. Although he joined the Inniskillins in Jan 1888, by March 1888 he had transferred to the Royal Engineers who are based at the School of Military Engineering in Brompton. His records also show he married the widow of a SSM in the ASC in 1895, so there is a vague ASC connection too.
I also found this in the National Roll of the Great War:
DOYLE, A. J., Pte., R.A.S.C. (M.T.).
He volunteered in August, 1914, and served on both Western and Eastern Fronts. In France he was engaged on the transport of stores and ammunition to the trenches, and in Salonica drove a Staff car. He was invalided home on account of ill-health, and discharged in May 1916.
He holds the 1914 Star, General Service and Victory Medals.
43, Brenthurst Road, Willesden, N.W. 10 16379
I wonder if that's our man with a wrong initial?
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I've partially solved one of them thanks to local papers. This is a summary of what was written about him:
Chatham Observer 23 3 18:
DRIVER ARTHUR WILLIAM MOON
Mech Transport Section of ASC.
Adopted son of Mrs E Doyle of Westcourt St
25yo. Educ Holy Trinity. Corporal Church Lads’ Brigade.
Went to France Sept 1914. In France 2 ½ years. 3 months ago taken to hospital with consumption. Died in Brompton Hospital (NB is this London?) Monday week.
Gillingham Cemetery, Rev WD Driver conducted service. List of mourners.
It seems he served under his birth name, but appears on the memorial under his adopted name.
However..... just to confuse things the address is 24 Westcourt Street, the same address Annette found for Arthur Watts Doyle's mother, so I'm not entirely sure what is going on with this one.