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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: mympwy on Saturday 18 May 13 11:56 BST (UK)

Title: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: mympwy on Saturday 18 May 13 11:56 BST (UK)
Hi,
Hoping someone can help me, been struggling for months now and haven't got anywhere.

Edward Roberts (G.Grandfather) died 1916 Delville Wood and is mentioned on the WW1 Denbigh War Memorial.
He was married to Edith Williams and had a son in 1915, Edward Charles Roberts.  I do know that Edith re-married Robert Thomas Hughes and her son Frederick is mentioned on the WW2 memorial in Denbigh.

This is all I know so any help especially on Edward Roberts and Edith Williams would be fantastic.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: JJen on Saturday 18 May 13 18:50 BST (UK)
Hi,

Your best option would be to purchase the marriage certificate of Edward Roberts and Edith Williams, which hopefully would have their father's names and occupation recorded.

Name - Edward Roberts
Spouse - Edith Williams
Date of Registration q4 1913
Registration District - St Asaph, Denbighshire
Volume Number 11b Page Number 575

JJ
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: JJen on Saturday 18 May 13 18:59 BST (UK)
Marriage on Family Search -

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCP1-MXD

JJ
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: sheikhalbadou on Saturday 18 May 13 19:22 BST (UK)
The marriage entry reads:

October 16th 1913 Parish of Llangollen
Edward Thomas Roberts age 24 bachelor miner of Bee Bank, Vron lyssgylltan[? hard to read]
Edith Williams age 23 spinster of 35 Church Street
Father of groom - deceased (no name given)
Father of bride - Edward Williams, tailor
Witnesses: John Roberts and Jane Edwards
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: JJen on Saturday 18 May 13 19:29 BST (UK)
1901 for Edith -

Edward Williams   36 Tailor b. Llangollen, Denbighshire
Mary Williams   40 b. Marshbrook, Shropshire
Edith Williams   dau 10 b. Llangollen, Denbighshire
Hugh T Williams   7 b. Llangollen, Denbighshire
John E Williams   5 b. Llangollen, Denbighshire
Mary E Williams   3 b. Llangollen, Denbighshire
Gladys M Williams 1 b. Llangollen, Denbighshire
Hugh Williams   father in law 72 b. Llangollen, Denbighshire

RG13 Piece 5249 Folio 25 Page 14 35 Church Street, Llangollen

JJ
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: wrjones on Saturday 18 May 13 20:09 BST (UK)
Local knowledge suggests that the place on the marriage entry should read Froncysyllte.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: wrjones on Saturday 18 May 13 20:18 BST (UK)
However,whilst we will have to wait for the OP for their response given the mention of Denbigh strongly points to the St Asaph marriage,Denbigh being within the St Asaph Registration District.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: wrjones on Saturday 18 May 13 20:22 BST (UK)
The entry for Edward Roberts on the Denbigh War Memorial suggests he was born in Denbigh;
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/cofadeiladau/denbigh-wwi_wm.htm

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: despair on Saturday 18 May 13 22:13 BST (UK)
I can find a very brief newspaper report re the death of Company Sergeant Major Edward Roberts(the right man?) that gives him as the nephew of Mr and Mrs John Roberts of Ardwick,Manchester.
I'm fairly sure this John Roberts is in Manchester in 1901 at ref. 3695 36 13,given as born Llangynog Montgomeryshire.From other sources his full name appears to be John Thomas Roberts.

Perhaps the association with Denbigh is simply where the married couple were living when their son was born- there is an Edward Charles Winton Roberts registered in Denbigh in !915(NorthWalesBMD)

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: mympwy on Sunday 19 May 13 15:40 BST (UK)
Thank you all so much for your help, I can't believe how much information has been found in such a short period of time.  The newspaper article is spot on, uncle's name is interesting as I didn't know Thomas was a middle name which is confirmed on the marriage entry.  1901 census info for the William's is brill, lots to work from.  Thank you all again, I thought all hope was lost!
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: despair on Sunday 19 May 13 16:39 BST (UK)
I have been trying to make meaningful family connections for Edward and John Roberts.I wonder if "nephew" had quite the more narrow usage we tend to give it today,I have an incomplete set of data that might suggest a relationship as a cousin,but there is no suggestion of a Denbigh birth in it.
For what it's worth:-

John Roberts may be the son of William Roberts seen at Llangynog as follows:

1881 5499  23  23
1891 4602  18 14

William in turn may be the son of David Roberts seen at Pen y Graig,Main

1851  2499  278  3
1861  4262  44  3

This family has an Edward Roberts born circa  1836.
If we then turn to Edward Thomas Roberts,I think he is it this ref. in 1901 with his widowed mother Mary,"Edward T" given as a labourer in a colliery(a miner on his wedding certificate)
Looking for this family earlier the head of the family is an Edward Roberts,given born circa 1839,albeit Denbighshire

1891 4637  101  23
1881 5540  117  26

I can't confidently take this Edward back through 1871 and 1861 to make the connection.He does appear,however to name his (first?) son David,possibly as per his father in the 1851 census(above)

However,if you have access to the 1911 census there is a possible(only possible) connection between Edward Ellis in this census and someone of the same surname with an address as per Edward Thomas Roberts on his wedding certificate.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: despair on Monday 20 May 13 11:59 BST (UK)
The Edward Thomas Roberts from Froncysyllte looks like the wrong man-I think he is here(quite a coincidence of marriage and battalion)

http://www.llangollenmuseum.org.uk/english/Memorials/FronWW1/EdwardThomasRoberts/Summary.htm

However he was a private and the newspaper article is for a CSM,so the connection with John Roberts,Ardwick(probably born Llangynog) is still valid.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: wrjones on Monday 20 May 13 12:09 BST (UK)
This Edward Thomas Roberts is given as dying 14/04/1917 on the Froncysyllte War Memorial and given as the son of a Mrs M Roberts of Llannerch Cottage Froncysyllte;
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/cofadeiladau/froncysyllte_wm.htm

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: sheikhalbadou on Tuesday 21 May 13 08:18 BST (UK)
I believe the marriage transcript given earlier for Edward Thomas Roberts at Llangollen is the wrong one. There are two marriages in the same quarter between Edward Roberts and Edith Williams. Seems likely as someone else has mentioned that it is the the other one - at St Asaph. Looking at Northwalesbmd it is a civil marriage so would need to order the marriage certificate.

Wouldn't want to send someone down the wrong path  ;)
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: despair on Tuesday 21 May 13 09:45 BST (UK)
It seems I've contributed most to"red herrings barking  up the wrong trees".However I'm confident I've now found the correct uncle in Ardwick and he's from Denbigh(shire)- John Roberts circa 1862

1901  3674  121  6 (with a brother Elias link to Owen below)

I believe he is the son of Owen Roberts and they can be seen at

1871  5680  65  3

Unfortunately,it looks like he married and had early family in Cardiganshire where the 1861 census is probably missing(see below).

In 1881 Owen is back in Denbigh(5532  47  30) and there are quite a few Roberts,born Cardiganshire,as well.

Although I can't find him in 1881 at the moment there is an Isaac Roberts,born 1855 in Aberystwyth who has a son Edward born circa 1883 Denbigh who is in Bolton in 1891 and Brymbo in 1901(with a soldier son)

1891  3121  35  20
1901  5221  18  28

He may be here in 1871
1871  5408  12  17

Owen had a very large family and perhaps there are other possible candidates for an alternative Edward.The search goes on.

Regards
Roger

Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: despair on Tuesday 21 May 13 14:59 BST (UK)
This site gives Edward Roberts address as 88 Henllan Street

http://www.henllan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=530

If you have access to the 1911 census you will find that it confirms my conclusion that he is the son of Isaac Roberts,and therefore grandson of Owen Roberts.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: Richie1974 on Tuesday 28 May 13 00:33 BST (UK)
Edward Roberts, son of Isaac Roberts and Elizabeth Roberts (née Riley) is my great uncle. Born 16th October 1882 at 116 Henllan Street, Denbigh.  His 2 brothers are also named on the Denbigh war memorial. William Roberts and Thomas Roberts.
Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: Richie1974 on Wednesday 29 May 13 22:08 BST (UK)
Hi Mympwy,

Sorry i'm unable to respond to the private message facility as i've yet to make 3 postings on the RootsChat forum.
I've visited the grave of Edward Roberts in Abbeville last year. I have photos, and his birth certificate,
Edward Roberts is on the 1911 Census living at 88 Henllan Street, Denbigh.
My Grandfather is on the same 1911 Census, Arthur Roberts aged 6.
I've been checking family Census records for the last year, I was unaware that Edward Roberts was married. It is a pleasant surprise.


Many thanks

Richard

Title: Re: Edward Roberts Denbigh, Help Please
Post by: yrydwi on Sunday 22 March 15 21:53 GMT (UK)
 ;)Hello Edward Roberts was the son of Isaac and Elizabeth Roberts,he was in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers,shot in the chest at Delville wood he was decorated for bravery.He had 15 brothers and sisters,6 boys and 9 girls.The family lived at 88 Henllan Street,he was my great uncle.The Roberts family was a very old Denbigh family,Edward lost a brother by Spanish flu after the war,otherwise Thomas,Davy,Arthur,Baden,Harry returned to Denbigh at the end of war