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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Jacrista on Thursday 16 May 13 17:11 BST (UK)
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Big big disapointment today :'( I think I've just discovered that I've been researching down the wrong route ::) I guess you can imagine how gutted I am as I have done such a lot so far, anyway, I don't know if anyone can help me out here.
Starting with Herbert Darling born approx 1880 in Bradford, on the 1911 census he is in Chesterfield Derbyshire as a lodger and goes on to marry their daughter Agnes Ellis, he dies in 1923 in Chesterfield.
On the 1901 census I have him working on a farm in Yorkshire, and in 1891 he's in 'Nutters Orphanage' in Bradford along with his brother George.
On the 1881 census he is in Bradford with his parents, brother George and two sisters, Grace & Mary Jane who both died 1882 & 1883.
Now here in lies my dilemma, what has happened to his father John? (stone mason) born Scarborough 1851, his mother Harriet dies in 1887, I can find no other records for him, either before or after this census date, no birth, death or marriage.
I had assumed that he went on to marry 'Eliza Glaves', and this is where I am sure I have gone wrong (and this is the line I've been following) after discovering another record for 'Eliza's John' yesterday, which on the 1881 census puts him in East Ayton Yorkshire as a farm servant, so he could hardly be in Bradford with his parents!!
Oh boy, all the work I've done, I'm gutted!
But anyway, getting off on the right line is proving difficult, as I said I can't find any records for the 'right John' I assume his kids (Herbert & George) were put in an orphange after their Mum died, but what happened to John? can anyone help, point me in the right direction or just something, I'm pretty close to giving up altogether I can tell you, I'm so mad, grrrrrrr
Would be eternally grateful for any snippet anyone can offer, thanks.
(Forgot to say that I got Herberts fathers name and occupation from Herberts parish record of his marriage)
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On the 1881 census he is in Bradford with his parents, brother George and two sisters, Grace & Mary Jane who both died 1882 & 1883.
There are christenings for a Herbert Darling with parents Edward Darling and Harriet in 1880 and George in 1878. Grace born 1874 has parents John Edward Darling & Harriet. Harriet seniors maiden name was Brayshaw according to Graces christening are these your family? Herberts has the same mothers maiden name
ADDED MMN could be BrayshaY
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Rosie99 was just about to add 1881 census details in case anyone could help
John has the middle initial E
1881 c Piece: 4449 Folio: 86 Page Number: 34
15 Stott Hill Place Bradford
John E Darling 30 Scarbro Stone Mason
Harriet 29 Bradford
Grace 7
Mary J 5
George 3
HERBERT
added
looks as if he married as EDWIN
Marriage entry FreeBMD
Dec 1873 Bradford Y Vol 9b page 67
Edwin DARLING
Name on same page
Harriet BRAYSHAW
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As he married as Edwin
Death March qtr 1885
Darling Edwin
age 35
Bradford, Y. 9b 59
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Sorry don't have access to full census could this be him 1871 census Yorkshire
Edward Darling age 21 c. 1850 occ Stone Mason Esholl Yorkshire
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looks as if he married as EDWIN
Marriage entry FreeBMD
Dec 1873 Bradford Y Vol 9b page 67
Edwin DARLING
Name on same page
Harriet BRAYSHAW
Marriage at St Peter, Bradford (Bradford Cathedral)
18 Oct 1873
Edwin Darling age 23 occ Mason father George Darling occ Grocer
Harriet Brayshaw age 22 father James Brayshaw occ Fruiterer
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Marriage at St Peter, Bradford (Bradford Cathedral)
18 Oct 1873
Edwin Darling age 23 occ Mason father George Darling occ Grocer
Harriet Brayshaw age 22 father James Brayshaw occ Fruiterer
possibly John Edward/Edwin's father on 1871 census Yorkshire
George Darling age 47 c. 1824 West Ayton Yorkshire Occ Retired Grocer
family search 1871 census https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KZGW-D3S
George Darling 47 b1824, dau Jane age 19 son John age13 ???, all born West Ayton
1881 c Piece: 4807 Folio: 122 Page Number: 12
Back Lane
George Daniel 33 Gardener
Grace 32 West Ayton
Maud N 6
GEORGE Darling widow f-i-l 57 West Ayton Yorkshire occ Grocer out of Employ
If this is John Edward/Edwin's father looks as if he had a sister named Grace
This looks to be Grace's marriage entry FreeBMD
Jun 1873 Scarbro Vol 9d page 557
Grace Hostler Darling
Name on same page
George Daniel
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Hi all think he is Edwin in 1851 Father George Grocer (Master) Mother Mary.
Census Ref HO107/2368/656/26
Keyboard86
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Hi all think he is Edwin in 1851 Father George Grocer (Master) Mother Mary.
Census Ref HO107/2368/656/26
FreeBMD marriage entry
Mar 1845 Scarborough vol 24 page 507
George DARLING
Name on same page
Mary SMITH
Scarbro birth entries FreeBMD which may relate to your Darling family,
West Ayton is in the registration district of Scarbro'
1851c Scarborough, Hutton Buskell
George Darling 28 (1823) West Ayton
Mary 25 (1826) Leathley
William 6 (1845) East Ayton
Hannah 5 (1846)
EDWIN 3 (1848) West Ayton
Grace 2 (1849) West Ayton
Mary
Dec 1847 EDWIN Darling (I wonder if this is John Edward/Edwin birth a little earlier than 1850 :-\)
Jun 1849 Grace Darling (this looks to be the same Grace as on 1881c with father George
Dec 1851 Jane Darling (this looks to be the same Jane as on 1871c with father George)
Jun 1857 John Darling ( John " "
amended ::) Obtaining b/c of one of the children above would confirm if mmn SMITH
Jacrista - let us know what you think :)
added for Info.
1851c James I Brayshaw c. 1823 Holbeck occ Green Grocer
1861c Bradford East End
James Brayshaw 37 Holbeck occ Green Grocer
Grace 32 Bradford
Mary J 12, Ellen A 10, HARRIET 8, Edward H 6, Ellen 3, Ada 1
1871c Harriet Brayshaw age 18 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBZ7-4PW
Jun 1847 Bradford Yk James Brayshaw name on same page Grace Hodgson
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Christenings at Bradford St Peter
Christened 23 Apr 1876 - parents John Edward Darling & Harriet
Grace born 5 September 1874
Mary Jane born 4 March 1876
mothers maiden name Brayshaw, fathers occ Stone Mason.
res 28 Southampton Street, Bradford both children apparently born at this address
Christened20 April 1881
Herbert born 19 October 1880
parents Edward & Harriet
fathers occ Stone Mason
mmn Brayshaw
res 15 Stott Hill Place, Bradford (this address also given as place of birth)
Christened 4 February 1883
James born 6 January 1883
parents Edward & Harriet
res 25 Pine Street, Bradford (also given as place of birth)
mmn Brayshaw
fathers occ Stone Mason
............
Christened at Bradford, Holy Trinity
Christened 29 January 1879
George born 30 December 1878
parents Edward & Harriet
fathers occ Stone Mason resident Dalby Buildings
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Wow, thanks everyone for helping me, you're a great bunch of 'research buddy's'!
I have found the records of what you have all been telling me, some I already had, some not, I've been sifting through everything all morning, printed off lots of records, but oh boy, am I confused or what!! I don't know whether I'm coming or going with it all to be honest :-\ ???
All this changing of names is really doin' my head in!!! would someone named John really have started calling himself Edwin? :o or indeed Edward!! I can't seem to find out what the 'E' in 'John E' really stands for, could be either, he's Edwin and Edward on different records.
It would seem though that I have for certain been going down the wrong line.
On the 1881 census I have 'John E Darling' B. 1851 Scarborough, Stone Mason, living in Stott Place, Bradford' I came to that from this starting point....
'Herbert Darling' married 'Agnes Ellis' in Chesterfield 1911, on the record at 'freereg.org' it shows that his father is 'John', a stone mason, and from the 1911 census I see that Herbert was born in Bradford, so I went from there and found an 1881 census in Bradford with both Herbert and John, I can find no other with these names so assume that this is them.
On the 1891 census, Herbert and his brother George are in the orphanage (birth dates pretty much match so assume its them) But, I cannot find anymore records for their father 'John E' after the 1881 census, not even a death, his wife Harriet, died in 1887, I assumed that the boys were then put in the orphanage.
From there I thought that John went on to marry 'Eliza Glaves' but this is where I went wrong I think, it must be another John unfortunatly.
I have an A4 folder stuffed full of stuff about that line, can barely shut the flippin' thing!!! so you can imagine how dissapointed I am, gutted, just about covers it! we have even just come back from holiday in Scarborough and combined it with looking around the graves, got pics and info, the lot, all wasted now of course, the wrong bunch!! :'( :'(
To get back onto what I was saying (sorry for the grumble :-X) do you think that I should send for a birth cert of Herbert, that will give me his mums name won't it? (Brayshaw or otherwise)
My only worry is, am I sending for the right Herbert! his birth date changes like the wind, I know they can vary, on birth record he's 1880, baptism he's 1880, (father as Edward though) marriage works out at 1884, 1881 census he's 1881. 1891 he's 1881, 1901 he's 1881, 1911 he's 1884, so in your expert opinion do you all reckon its the same guy?
Sending for his marriage cert won't give me anymore than I already know will it? it's not going to tell me anymore about his parents is it? so that one would be a waste of money I'm thinking.
Do you know if and where I could get records of the orphanage? they should, I suppose, tell me why they were put in there, it is frustrating though not being able to find out what happend to their father, not even a death record, I mean, can I really assume that he is the 'Edwin' that we all keep coming up with?
Well anyway folks, I'm deeply grateful to you all for taking time out of your own research to help me, you're all very kind, I'm always more than happy for any snippet that anyone can come up with.
Jacrista :-*
PS. Rosie99 ...Posted this message before seeing your addition this afternoon, thank you so much for putting that list all together.
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Christenings at Bradford St Peter
Christened20 April 1881
Herbert born 19 October 1880
parents Edward & Harriet
fathers occ Stone Mason
mmn Brayshaw
res 15 Stott Hill Place, Bradford (this address also given as place of birth)
I don't think a birth cert would help. :-\
The above christening gives Herberts mother as Brayshaw and his place of birth/residence at the time of his 1881 christening as 15 Stott Hill Place which is identical to the address in 1881 census that you have for John E & Harriet ;D
ADDED It is not unusual for the name of Edwin to be also known as Edward
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As he married as Edwin
Death March qtr 1885
Darling Edwin
age 35
Bradford, Y. 9b 59
I think this is probably John E's death ;D
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I'll go with that for the death then, that means that he died before Harriet (1887) so I guess that would be why the boys were in the orphanage. Many thanks
Oh forgot, about the certs, I know what you mean, but I was thinking that it would just confirm I was on the right line, I suppose death certs would'nt help in any way would they?
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Hi
The death cert for Edwin would show where he died and who registered the death but it would not necessarily be his wife. The burial register might be more help.
Rosie
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Hi again all, so glad to have helped out on this one, one small point however, were George or Mary in the 1851 Census I reported married previously, as living with the family is a George Etherington aged 77 Widower Father in Law occ Retired Grocer b Hive, Yorks.
Keyboard86
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Hi Keyboard86, think I must be missing something here, but I just assumed that George Etherington, father in law, was Marys Father, is that not right then?
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Hi Keyboard86, think I must be missing something here, but I just assumed that George Etherington, father in law, was Marys Father, is that not right then?
:) Well the marriage that Ladyhawk located on reply 8 was George Darling to (on same page) Mary SMITH?
Keyboard86
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Yes sorry about that, I re-read the posts and got the picture, duh ::)