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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: dunkmac74 on Tuesday 14 May 13 14:17 BST (UK)
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Hi all not sure if this is the right place to post this question ???
Im hoping someone may be able to help me by offering some advice or a link where i could look up further a link(if any!!) between Fishermen and Fishing between Newlyn and Ireland circa early 1800s please,at the present im still trying to trace an Ancestor of mine who ive referred to a few times on the Cornish board so wont again ;) who turned up in Newlyn in about 1806 on his Banns he is referred to as a Sojuorner and on his Daughters wedding cert as Mariner as well as his sons he was born in Ireland and im led to beleave by a family member he may of originally come from County Donnegall before settling and marrying in Newlyn which leads me on to my next bit of research does anyone know of Fishermen From Newlyn and also from Ireland fishing the waters around these areas at that time was there a trade link between the 2 and also did Cornish fishing vessells fish out as far as County Donnegall and also the Irish sea and vice versa back with the Irish fishermen in 1800s?any help or advice or links where i may be able to check this out further and get some positive results either way would be really apreciated on my next part of my journey tracing this side of my Family .Kindest regards Dunc
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no, not the right place. Resources & Offers is for offering information, but a moderator could move it for you.
Given how early fleets from this side of the Atlantic were fishing the Grand Banks, I wouldn't have thought that Donegal would be out of the question three hundred years later.
http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/exec/premier/gbanks.htm
Do any of the records you have for him state fisherman? I should remember as I've looked up a few. Mariner isn't the same as fisherman. It crossed my mind that he could have been in the Coastguard service as they weren't posted close to home on purpose. There's Cornishmen who served as coastguards in Ireland, so why not the other way around? There's someone on Rootschat who is very knowledgeable and helpful about Coastguard records, user name crimea1854. You could ask him to check?
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Hiya dunkmac, nice to see you again. :)
I just think it would be wise to let people know all the searching that has been done about your people here already (not to mention all the info I have emailed) -- a search for McDonald posts by you brings up 27 threads! (in quite a number of forums)
Hypothetical questions often prompt people to ask for details (because searching for individuals specifically is so often more useful than looking for general info) and do more searching that in this case has likely been done before -- I know you're trying to head that off, but if your thread is moved, it would be good just to let people know they can find all the individual background info by doing that search.
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Cheers for Replys Osprey Janey i appreciate it hopefully someone can move this topic as i dont actually want any look ups per say ive had someone tell me from Dublin that there was a link for fishing between Newlyn and Kingston Dublin back early 1800s and that people from Mousehall fished up into Northern Ireland back then too so im pretty sure since i last posted that the link was there as for Mariner/Sailor who knows ive only got one mention of him being a mariner and that was on his sons marriage cert on his own wedding banns it states sojourner?the facts are i have a baptism for Dennis 1780 St Andrews Dublin 6 miles from Kingston on the part of the liffey used by fishing fleets and families also ive discovered a family of McDonalds in County Donegal that were ship builders and mariners who came over after the jacobite revolt in 1750 im 99 per cent sure given what ive found Dennis 1780 is right but ill look up the coast gaurd theory im pretty sure he was a fishermen as im thinking if he was in charge of a ship records might of been more forth coming but thanks for the tips ill carry on my search ;)
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I'm not sure what this talk now is of moving this topic- I moved it the other day from CORNWALL RESOURCES (where it was originally posted) to CORNWALL. Seems quite clear that dunkmac74 is asking for general information about the subject but not details about a particular person.
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Google the exact phrase (quotation marks and all!):
"the herring fishery" and "irish coast" and "newlyn"
...and you'll get some hits. :)
I imagine there are better searches you could do, but this should start you off.
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Thanks aghadowey and gaffy ;)thats what i was after info on fishing between the two places and any other links or info im pretty sure as i say i have the right person just trying to tie up as few loose ends and research a bit further into the way of life in Newlyn etc back then as i know nothing about that way of life at all even tho the people(My Ancestors) im researching lived and worked their ive never been to Newlyn and live on a council estate in the South East ;)
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Thanks aghadowey and gaffy ;)thats what i was after info on fishing between the two places and any other links or info im pretty sure as i say i have the right person just trying to tie up as few loose ends and research a bit further into the way of life in Newlyn etc back then as i know nothing about that way of life at all even tho the people(My Ancestors) im researching lived and worked their ive never been to Newlyn and live on a council estate in the South East ;)
Yes, it's clear that some Newlyn and Irish fishermen shared the same waters...
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aghadowey, I quite appreciate that specific individual info was not requested -- but we do all know how often a general/hypothetical question is met with a request like "maybe if you give us some names and dates we could try to help".
In this case, I and dunkmac and others have looked in Irish records available on line to see whether we could figure out a connection with the earliest known McDonalds in his line in Cornwall (they were first in Paul at the beginning of the 1800s), unfortunately to no avail, but it does seem likely that Ireland was their source, so this is a good question to be asking.
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Hi All ;)
After getting wedding cert out of attic for the son it doesnt give fathers occupation as Mariner it actually says Sailor?is that the same thing as Mariner?or should i restart my research stating sailor now ???Dunc
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I would say same thing, more modern terminology.
This is the 1898 marriage of the son John?
- edit - that was stupid - that is the remarriage of James Forester McDonald himself
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=344739
where he is the sailor (father John - not James - is farm labourer).
The 1874 marriage I think of the father James:
- edit - no, it is the first marriage of the same James Forester McDonald
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=344547
where he is called Mariner (father is labourer -- I think it's what old sailors became ;) ).
So JFMcD was called Mariner when he married in 1874 at age 27 and Sailor when he remarried in 1898 at age 50. He is luckily enumerated twice in 1901 -- once with wife Bridget (and crossed off and shown as on board SS Lyonnesse, Penzance, and once on the vessel, a screw steamer, and him a Seaman).
(Remarried to his deceased wife's sister? My grx2 grandfather was born in sin because his mother was his father's deceased wife's sister and it was illegal for them to marry at that time. ;) )
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Nice one Janey!me heads all over the shop now mariner sailor ??? from what i can gather on google and other countless research theres 3 possibilities 1 Birth in Dublin 2 McDonald boat builders County Donegall 3 privateer 1812 on the ship called Dart next stop for me is researching newlyn Penzance museum he who dares wins! ;D Dunc
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shouldn't take long to research the museum, it's a couple of rooms in Penlee House
http://www.penleehouse.org.uk/
http://www.museumsincornwall.org.uk/
What is it you're trying to find out? It may be something that a library can help with.
http://www.morrablibrary.org.uk/
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this may help with the difference between mariner and sailor
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,310299.msg3198167.html#msg3198167
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Thanks for the replies Janey and Osprey really appreciated thanks Janey thats right he did remarry his dead wifes sister!talk bout keep it i the family! id often wondered why sailors etc come up as labourers and farm labourers etc on diffrent census records i was told out of season or when weather was bad the people of Nwlyn etc turned to farm labouring till weather changed or season started up again?as for trying the museums i just tought i email see if they can add anything as i did this at Isles of Scilly and i was kindly sent loads od info and census records im just curious to see if my relative pops up in any of their records worth i try maybe ??? Dunc
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Excerpt from NEWLYN - A VIEW FROM STREET-AN-NOWAN by John Cecil Jenkin
Just read this piece this morning...
"...and around 1829, Charles KELYNACK, grandson of Old Bunger who rescued Wesley from a hostile crowd, persuaded Newlyn fishermen to fish for herrings in Irish waters, beginning in July after the mackerel season. By 1838 some 100 boats took part regularly."
There's also a famous painting by Stanhope Forbes called Off To Skibbereen which shows a boat setting sail from Newlyn. Skibbereen is on the coast of County Cork, if I remember correctly.
I just noticed that this doesn't really tie in with your dates, but I'll leave the info on here anyhow.
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Thanks Graylight for your reply really appreciated it ive recently found an article online by a man called Vingoe from Newlyn where he says that there were fishing crews fishing around Ireland like i say Newlyn to Dublin and Mousehole to County Donegall at the start of 1800 so all the links are looking good ;) thanks again Dunc