RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: gerryg1 on Saturday 11 May 13 05:25 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
One photo shows my grandfather after WW1 judging from the fact that they already have ribbons on their jackets. He was with the Highland Light Infantry/Scottish Rifles, signed up in Belfast. There is a suggestion in the family that at some time he spent some time in the South of Ireland during or after the war. Does the photo suggest anything to anyone? Obviously this is not the Scottish Rifles uniform, judging by the hat badge. He had colour service from 7/12/15 to 20/3/19 with 2 years 92 days overseas.
Gerry.
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Perhaps the Ulster Special Constabulary??
See 3rd pic at http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/lost_photos_RUCRICBSpecials.htm
Adrian
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From your oral history it could possibly be the Special Constabulary sometimes known as the Black and Tans.
Baird
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Thanks for that. I've removed his medal card as I don't think it is relevant to this.
Gerry.
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Looking at the collar badges of the Harp with the Kings Crown on top I would say the Royal Irish Constabulary circa 1920-1940ish.
The uniform would have been Black with dark metal buttons. The collar badge would have had a red cloth backing as would any insignia, the webbing is a standard canvas 1908 pattern.
Regards
David
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From your oral history it could possibly be the Special Constabulary sometimes known as the Black and Tans.
Baird
Were the SpecialConstabulary not called the B specials, I have a few drawings and paintings of the Black and Tans and none of them show them in peak caps unless their uniform changed.
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Thanks to all who replied. From the answers here and further investigation I think they were members of the Ulster Special Constabulary formed about Sep 1920. I think I'll try the Irish history boards to see if I can gain some more information.
Thanks. Gerry.
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My grandfather, John Gaston, born in Belfast on 13 May 1896, is in this photo can anyone identify the unit? or supply additional information.
I found a larger photo of an entire outfit on Lennon Wylie's site with the title of '1st North Battalion (Belfast District), which may have him in it, bit hard to tell, Underneath has been added 'U.S.C. Belfast 9.3.1922 (32)?' which may of may not help.
Any help appreciated. Gerry.
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Ulster Special Constabulary?
B specials
Ady
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Thanks Ady.
Been reading up on the different police units, all very interesting but little wiser as to the actual unit depicted in the photo. I wonder if the fact that all but one of the men, apart from the instructor, are wearing ribbons could mean something. Perhaps just a course photo, lots of times in my army career we had photos taken at the end of longer type courses, not to mention basic training.
Gerry.
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This is a photo of my Uncle . I have come to the conclusion that this is a 'B' special uniform. He was a sergeant major in WW1 and I presume was recruited into the 'Specials' after the war. I have a few more of groups but the files are too big to attach.
RosemaryJoan
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Thanks RosemaryJoan, I think you are probably right. Here's some of the other info we've come up with so far.
The USC (Ulster Special Constabulary) was made up of two groupings.... 'A' & 'B'.
'A' Specials were paid for duties to assist at police stations as Police numbers were low and the USC was a cheaper way of covering for Police who were required out on the ground. I understand there was also a reserve 'C' section of mostly older men.
'B' Specials (USC) were unpaid (except for 2 bounties a year) and were only used when the 'pooh' hit the fan (but not sure how they were informed when to take up duty).
Uniforms obviously supplied by the Government and probably kept at home. Firearms and ammo kept in Police Stations. Drilled every Sunday.
Obviously there is a lot more information on the net.
Apparently details of individuals are kept by PRONI.
Regards. Gerry.
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gerryg1
From what you say, I think perhaps William John was an 'A' category, as I have photographs of him in an office and with groups and it looked as if he was permanently employed. He was born in 1890 and was the youngest man ever to become a regimental sergeant major in the British Army(family legend).
RosemaryJoan
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RosemaryJoan, I think from other sources that William John joined the RIC after the war and would most likely have transferred to the RUC when the RIC was disbanded in 1922, therefore he would have been a member of the the full time police force, the Royal Ulster Constabulary, rather than the more controversial reserve, the Ulster Special Constabulary ('A' & 'B' Specials) formed late 1920. I also note that besides the 'family legend' he had also been awarded the Military Medal.
Refer here - http://www.royalirishconstabulary.com/index16.html
The site has a host of fascinating information.
Gerry.
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Strangely enough, I gave all those photographs and info to the owner of that site but didn't know that he had published it. I don't Wm. John was ever in the RUC, as in 1945 he was a labourer. I must get out his file and see if I can find out when he became a civilian.
In one photograph he has a sergeants stripes, and another the RIC insignia which I gather denotes a higher rank. Do you agree?
RosemaryJoan
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RosemaryJoan, certainly agree assume Warrant Officer level which I guess would be Head Constable. I think I noticed that there were two levels of this rank.
Gerry.
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Just looked at his marriage cert. in 1923. His occupation was 'R.U.S.C.'
RosemaryJoan
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Strange mixture of terms. Perhaps he was 'RUC' attached to the 'USC' in an organisational capacity, or he may have just transferred from the 'RIC' to the 'A' Specials as you thought.
Gerry.
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Perhaps I should get his full record from the R.U.C. Museum.
RosemaryJoan
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I believe they are held at PRONI. My cousin is going to have a look for my grandfathers, she tried the museum first, got lots of good general info but it was them who told her she needed to go to PRONI. She is ex RUC.
Gerry.
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Thanks for that Gerryg1. I will request a search from them. By the way, I still have the truncheon and whistle!
RosemaryJoan
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This is a photo of my Uncle . I have come to the conclusion that this is a 'B' special uniform. He was a sergeant major in WW1 and I presume was recruited into the 'Specials' after the war. I have a few more of groups but the files are too big to attach.
RosemaryJoan
The insignia on your uncle's cuff signifies that he was a Head Constable at the time, probably in the RIC, which continued up to August 1922.
Roger
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Thank you rogerwill, That information would figure, since he had been a regimental sergeant major in the British Army. This is good to know.
RosemaryJoan
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Hi Gerry,
To answer your question, your Grandfather is wearing the uniform of a member of the Ulster Special Constabulary, by the date he may well be in the 'A' category who were predominately ex-servicemen and recruited for their skills as soldiers, but only with exemplary service records! They would have served on a full time basis in support of the RIC/RUC. The 'A' class of USC constables were disbanded in 1924/25, but a lot of these men were absorbed into the RUC.
His record will be in the PRONI archive, but you may find it's only two pages in length.
With your permission can I use this photograph for a website I'm putting together for the USC association?
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Thanks John. Plese feel free to use the photo for your website on the USC association.
Regrds. Gerry.