RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: king otg on Friday 10 May 13 14:21 BST (UK)
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Name the church
The most disappointing thing in genealogy is when somebody has gone to the trouble and expense of buying a certificate or visiting a record office to gather information and then, when they decide to share the details with others, they name either the registration district or the abode instead of the parish. It makes it is very difficult for anybody else to check the information and, unless somebody is prepared to go to the same trouble and expense, it is of limited value. For all we know it could be fabricated.
If it is intended it defeats the purpose of sharing. If it is unintended it means more care should be taken to ensure that the information is correctly recorded. Church events are always filed under a particular parish. The name of the registration district is less precise because it includes many parishes and non-church wedding places.
To figure out where a marriage took place, given only the registration district, requires a large database containing similar examples. The solution, in some regions, has been the creation of reverse GRO Indexes (freely available online) which name the precise church or, if it was a non-church wedding, it will say so. Other methods include using the censuses and a map to establish where the family lived at about the same time as the event.
With regard to baptism, marriage and burial registers, writing down the applicable page number is useful but it is a mistake not to make a note of the church named at the top of the page (or previous pages if it is blank). Church names can change but whatever church appears on the page is going to be more accurate than anything else since the date of any name-change is a matter of official record.
When additional churches develop out of the mother church they sometimes have the same name so it is worthwhile noting how the church has been archived. Record offices specialise in putting information in the correct place so their system is the most reliable. Some popular online indexes, those which do not specialise in identifying the church name, can be misleading.
When the abode is not the same place as the church it is a reminder to make a clear note of which parish it is.
In my database, 1,200 pages and 50,000 entries, I try to include as many references to English and Welsh gipsies and travellers as possible.
Copies of my database will eventually be deposited at selected Record Offices. It will be distributed in PDF format and I have divided it into 6 regions: East, Greater London, North, South East, South West and West. The regional files are between 200 and 300 pages in length (about 10,000 entries each).
Families which travelled widely are best located in the amalgamated edition where everything comes together in one place and where, using ‘Word’, it is quick and easy to extract details. It is the version that I will retain. There is also an expurgated edition from which recent baptisms and those surnames having just one entry have been deleted. These two enormous files are cumbersome in PDF.
If sufficient interest is shown I will provide a list of record offices which have been given a copy of the database. There are none at present because I am still proof-reading.
TL
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No interest shown so far, except from Berlin-Bob who has a similar idea, but I can confirm that Hampshire Archives will receive a copy of the database from September 2013 onwards. Whether they receive the Expurgated Edition or the South West Gipsy Index (or both) is yet to be decided.
When deciding which Record Offices deserve a free copy I take into account how much I enjoyed working there and what reaction I received to previous donations. In both respects Hampshire is outstanding.
There was a time, in the recent past, when my database was freely available to everybody but there was insufficient interest shown so the offer was withdrawn. I can understand this because it is difficult to grasp its significance without seeing it. When I obtained a printout of the full database it was too heavy to carry.
TL
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I think its an excellent Idea and any researcher will value it and the importance of it .
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;D Brilliant idea
hope ERO gets a copy as I would love to use the search data. 8)
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Essex Record Office sent a nice letter acknowledging receipt of my previous donation on CD-Rom so they are halfway there. I would like to deposit a copy of the regional database in at least one record office within each region and I have already begun copying to disc. It seems likely that the South-West will receive several while the Greater London area, which includes the overspill from Essex, may be limited to Bromley and Bexley libraries.
These are the titles of the works and the counties covered by each database. They contain approximately 50 entries per page and are not for sale:
Eastern England & East Midlands Gipsy Index (EGI) covers Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Derbyshire, Essex, Huntingdonshire, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire, Rutland, Suffolk (266pp)
Greater London Gipsy Index (GLGI) covers Hertfordshire, London, Middlesex, and the Greater London Boroughs (there is some overlap with neighbouring regions to the south and east) (216pp)
Northern England Gipsy Index (NGI) covers Cumberland, Durham, that part of Lancashire now included in Cumbria, Northumberland, Westmorland, Yorkshire, Scottish Borders (231pp)
South East England Gipsy Index (SEGI) covers Kent, Surrey, Sussex (263pp)
South Central & South West Gipsy Index (SWGI) covers Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Hampshire, Oxfordshire, Somerset, Wiltshire, Isle of Wight, Channel Islands (270pp)
Wales & West England Gipsy Index (WGI) covers Cheshire, Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Wales, Isle of Man (252pp)
The A to Z of Gipsy Genealogies Amalgamated Edition (1156pp); Expurgated Edition (1088pp)
Although the works are referred to as 'Gipsy' indexes I have not tried to distinguish between one type of traveller and another. Some of the entries are 'gipsylike' while others are included because they are known to be connected to travelling people. The data is there to assessed and sorted by the reader.
TL
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i have found all the info you have sent me to be very intresting kotg so would certainly like to be able to study more of your database and not just on my own families i should imagine it would be a very intresting study of gypsy people.
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A great idea. :)
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What a smashing thing to have undertaken. An enormous amount of people will be interseted in this. A good idea re naming a parish in our research. I know exactly what you mean.
Susan
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A provisional list of Record Offices has been drawn up and, from September 2013 onwards, will be the first to receive a copy of the database covering their particular region. Further donations are partly dependent upon researchers asking a record office to request a copy. Since I am bearing all the costs it will work better if my efforts are directed at assisting those who take a particular interest rather than indiscriminate distribution.
Record offices which are not on the following list might (or might not) receive a donation later but when asking a record office to request a copy you are not limited to the region where you live. Any record office can ask for any regional index at your request.
If, for example, you are interested in a surname which travelled mostly in the south of England , such as COOPER, you would find SEGI and SWGI to be of greatest value. If your nearest record office is Maidstone you would need to explain your surname interests to the archivist so that he or she could make the case for requesting a copy of SWGI. Maidstone does not have to explain its interest in SEGI because SEGI covers Kent however there is nothing listed under ‘Kent’ in SWGI.
In selecting the following record offices I am not taking into account whether or not they have the necessary facilities. They may have additional requirements so it is a good idea to contact them before visiting in order to obtain up-to-date information.
EGI:
Cambridge
Huntingdon
Matlock [Derbys]
Wigston Magna [Leics]
GLGI:
Bromley [Kent] Library
Ilford [Redbridge] Library
NGI:
Beverley
Doncaster
Heslington [York]
Newcastle
Northallerton
SEGI:
Bromley [Kent] Library
Canterbury [East Kent]
Chichester [W Sussex]
Strood [Kent]
SWGI:
Chippenham [Wilts]
Cowley [Oxon]
Dorchester [Dorset]
Sowton [Devon]
Truro [Cornwall]
Winchester [Hants]
WGI:
Aberystwyth [National Library of Wales]
Chester
Gloucester
Hereford
Shrewsbury
Stafford
Warwick
Bromley Library is listed under both GLGI and SEGI because it will receive both regional indexes. The Bromley region contributes to both Kent and Greater London.
The record offices will be told that they cannot make copies of the works so you should not expect to find copies in other record offices within the same county unless they have been donated separately.
TL
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The following record offices will receive their respective regional indexes on the dates shown below. The first four databases are dated May 2013. The last (Shrewsbury) is dated June 2013. Subsequent donations will be dated August or September 2013.
Matlock (EGI) 30 July
Ilford (GLGI) 2 August
Winchester (SWGI) 6 August
Warwick (WGI) 5 August
Shrewsbury (WGI) 5 August
From then on it will be up to researchers to ask the record offices about availability.
I am currently finding out if my paperwork, which supports the database (234 A4 ring-binders), can be deposited at the National Archives. If so, it will be useful. If not, it will be thrown away.
TL
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This is the final list of planned deposits after which any record office can apply for a copy of any database on your behalf. There is nothing stopping you from asking to see all the files but only through the record offices where it will be necessary to make the case for seeing them. I am in touch with all record offices by email so it is easy to pass files to them once a decision has been made.
EGI:
Cambridge
Matlock
Huntingdon
Wigston Magna
GLGI:
Bromley
Ilford
NGI:
Beverley
Borthwick
Doncaster
Durham [awaiting confirmation]
Northallerton [awaiting confirmation]
Newcastle [awaiting confirmation]
Woodhorn [awaiting confirmation]
SEGI:
Bromley
Canterbury
Chichester
Strood
SWGI:
Truro
Sowton
Dorchester
Cowley
Winchester
Norton Firzwarren
Chippenham
WGI:
Chester
Shrewsbury
Stafford
National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth
Warwick
The CD-ROMs containing the regional databases that are not already scheduled to be delivered in late July and early August (see Reply #9) will be posted on 30th August.
TL
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The following Record Offices have been sent their respective regional indexes:
EGI:
Cambridge
Huntingdon
Wigston Magna
GLGI:
Bromley
NGI:
Beverley
Doncaster
Durham
Northallerton
SEGI:
Bromley
Canterbury
Chichester
Strood
SWGI:
Chippenham
Cowley
Dorchester
Norton Fitzwarren
Sowton
Truro
WGI:
Chester
Gloucester
Stafford
National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth
These six, Matlock, Ilford, Maidstone, Winchester, Shrewsbury & Warwick will receive theirs in August as originally planned.
The first 40 pages of each work is Part One (Introduction & Key) and, to save time at the Record Office, you can obtain a free copy if you supply an email address by PM. Part One has been circulated in the past with restrictions but they are now lifted because the work is finished. Anyone can now receive a copy of Part One and they can pass it on.
TL
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The only alterations to the above are that Hampshire will also receive SEGI and that Tyne & Wear have been sent NGI.
Record Offices around the country are acknowledging receipt of their copy of the database. If you can follow this thread you should be able to gain access to all the information you require.
TL
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Just one or two final adjustments.
Woodhorn (Northumberland) has also been sent a copy of NGI.
York has refused NGI, without seeing it, and Hereford has shown no interest in receiving WGI.
That accounts for all of the Record Offices to which I planned to donate a regional copy of my database.
TL
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The following record offices have, so far, acknowledged receipt of their respective databases and my impression is that they are already available for visitors to view:
Aberystwyth - National Library of Wales (WGI)
Bromley, Kent (GLGI, SEGI)
Cambridge (EGI)
Canterbury (SEGI)
Chichester (SEGI)
Chippenham (SWGI)
Gloucester (WGI)
Huntingdon (EGI)
Northallerton (NGI)
Norton Fitzwarren (SWGI)
Oxford (SWGI)
Stafford (WGI)
Truro (SWGI)
TL
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The following additional record offices have acknowledged receipt of their copy of the database (I am awaiting replies from five others):
Beverley (NGI)
Doncaster (NGI)
Durham (NGI)
Glamorgan (WGI)
Hawarden (WGI)
Leicester (EGI)
Woodhorn (NGI)
Two further record offices will receive a copy in August:
Bexley Library (GLGI & SEGI)
Reading (SWGI)
Two questions have arisen from record office responses. One asked what happens if one of their customer’s wants a copy of the database. The answer is that explicit consent is required from me. Consent will not be given to requests from individuals although due consideration will be given to those involved in serious academic research. The work itself is not academically oriented. It is easy to understand and designed for quick access to surnames but it is also comprehensive and therefore invites analysis of general principles.
Another record office asked for the freedom to act upon its own initiative. The work is available under new legislation, dated 6 April 2013, which governs the deposit of non-print publications such as CD-ROMs. Record offices will administer it in accordance with database right and copyright rules. Visitors will not be permitted to make a copy from the CD-ROM.
Several months ago the database was freely available to everybody but there was an insufficient number of responses and the work is too important to be in the hands of the few. Record offices have been chosen to administer it because they can provide copyright protection while enabling visitors to obtain family information. The rules laid down are tough and they will prevent anybody from being victimised by the data.
The CD-ROM should be available on a single computer terminal under supervision. If researchers wish to see other databases, from the collection of six, they can apply through the record office of their choice as described earlier in this thread. They still cannot make a copy of the other databases.
Going to a record office is no big deal. It requires finding its location, proving your identity, and making an appointment (not always necessary). The following website usually has the most up to date information and rapidly connects you to the relevant record office website.
www.ancestor-search.info/
A few weeks ago I discussed the possibility, with Berlin Bob, of adding the database to Rootchat’s website but there were several technical problems.
My database is very large and it would take years to change the format.
It is designed in a particular way so that related information is close by.
It is more complicated than those using the Chapman Codes, it takes into account the 1974 county boundary changes, and shows exactly where the primary sources can now be found.
There has never been anything like it before so researchers are advised to do some planning and study the 40 page Introduction beforehand. Otherwise abbreviations might be a problem.
TL
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I feel it is important to keep people up to date, assuming that anybody is thinking about making use of my database, so as not to mislead.
A couple of record offices wish me to sign a form handing over certain rights to them. There is also a distinction between 'gift' and 'donation'. If the record office classifies a 'donation' as a 'gift' they can do as they please with it.
I have already laid down the conditions under which the database can be viewed so I will not be signing any waivers. This could mean that some record offices are obliged to return the CD-Rom. Here is the update:
Sowton (SWGI) have received theirs.
Beverley (East Yorks) (NGI) have refused to accept the donation and will be passing it to Tyne & Wear whose copy has got lost in the post.
Strood have also lost their donation because I sent it to the Civic Centre instead of Gun Wharf. I am thinking of sending another copy but it is not yet decided.
It appears that Cornwall may well refuse to accept their donation because of the disagreement over who sets the rules.
TL
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In the spirit of keeping people up-to-date (although I have no idea if this is of any interest to anybody) dealing with record offices can be quite difficult.
My CD-ROM deposits have some rules attached to them but a few record offices like to take complete control. If they call the deposit a Gift it means that they are going to do whatever they like with it although record offices usually act in everybody's best interests so it is not a cause for alarm.
Nevertheless the work is definitely called a Deposit, in my donation letter, and this causes some record offices to take a different path which involves negotiating the terms of the deposit. It is the right thing to do, in this case, but the permissions they are asking for are extensive and would, if agreed, constitute a breach of my conditions.
I have a trusting relationship with many other record offices who have simply accepted the donation gracefully.
There will probably be some changes of plan to accommodate my new understandings.
TL
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following all the info, thanks for the updates :)
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Here is the “successful deposit” list. These are all excellent record offices:
Aberystwyth - National Library of Wales (WGI)
Bromley, Kent (GLGI, SEGI)
Cambridge (EGI)
Canterbury (SEGI)
Chippenham (SWGI)
Doncaster (NGI)
Durham (NGI)
Gloucester (WGI)
Hawarden (WGI)
Huntingdon (EGI)
Leckwith (WGI)
Northallerton (NGI)
Oxford (SWGI)
Stafford (WGI)
Wigston Magna (EGI)
The following record offices will definitely receive theirs in early August. There should not be any subsequent difficulties:
Bexley Library (GLGI, SEGI)
Ilford Library (GLGI)
Maidstone (SEGI)
Matlock (EGI)
Reading (SWGI)
Shrewsbury (WGI)
Warwick (WGI)
Winchester (SWGI & SEGI)
The following are currently in slight doubt for the reasons given:
Chester (WGI) persistent no reply
Chichester (SEGI) reconsidering basis of deposit
Newcastle (NGI) lost in post
Norton Fitzwarren (SWGI) appears normal subject to final checks
Strood (SEGI) lost in post
Woodhorn (NGI) awaiting receipt
NO OTHER RECORD OFFICE is currently authorised to make the database available although there is nothing to stop them from requesting a copy for their region at any time in the future. The stimulus should come from their customers.
Many gipsy and traveller families are spread out all over England & Wales. If you are planning to make use of the database in your region and wish to explore further afield you can tell the archivists about your interests and ask them to apply to me for a copy of the database for whichever region you are interested in. You can then examine it at the same record office.
Approval is not automatic. The information that is passed to me needs to be clear enough to identify the correct database and what contribution the requested file could make. In other words, Surname and County. Examples include ‘SMITH in Worcestershire’ or ‘BOSWELL in Lincolnshire’. The alternative is to go to a record office that holds the database you wish to see.
As mentioned previously I have finished my work so I will be moving on to other projects in the coming months. The record offices, mentioned above, will deal with all enquiries and requests.
The Society of Genealogists has kindly offered to accept the full paper version subject to discussions about terms and conditions.
TL
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Wow! this collected data is unbelievably valuable. I for one am so glad and grateful that you are making these collections available through the Register Offices.
Am I right in thinking that Beverley will be the correct office for: Northern England Gipsy Index (NGI) covers Cumberland, Durham, that part of Lancashire now included in Cumbria, Northumberland, Westmorland, Yorkshire, Scottish Borders (231pp) ?
What would be the procedure to access the records?
I believe this is the region where my ancestor (Jeremiah Sowden and his wife, Jane and their family) will be recorded as am still looking for his marriage to Jane, his birth (abt 1755) and other births to them. You have already generously helped me in my search and taken me forward. Once I can get over to England I would love to be able to visit the appropriate registry offices to continue the search.
Very best wishes - Amanda Stone
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The Northern Gipsy Index is currently available at Durham, Woodhorn (near Ashington) and Doncaster.
The other record offices that were originally sent the NGI, Beverley and Newcastle, have had problems. The one that went to Tyne & Wear archives was lost in the post although another copy will be sent to them if it does not show up. Beverley have returned theirs because we could not come to a suitable agreement about terms of use. So the answer is, 'No, Beverley is not the correct office'.
The following website, under Local Centres then Record Offices, then Yorkshire South (for Doncaster) Northumberland (for Woodhorn and Tyne & Wear) and Durham (for Durham) leads to the relevant county websites to clarify their opening hours and whether an appointment is needed
www.ancestor-search.info/
Thanks for your kind words.
TL
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For those who had a glimpse of hope when seeing the last sentence of Reply #19, which suggested the possibility of depositing the paper version at the SoG, unfortunately that outcome has been cancelled.
Just like four other depositories that have had to return their CD-ROMs, the SoG automatically expects to take full control of the database and that is not acceptable to the author. In practical terms this means that the paper version will be destroyed for lack of space to store it.
It is quite right to resist the standard deposit forms because they propose agreement to a number of proposed developments which, considering the subject-matter, might be frowned upon by some members of the community. The database is not just genealogy. Conclusions can be drawn from it.
Placing the database online is one of the proposed developments. Ask yourself if you want everybody around the world to see the comical remarks that some clerics have made in their registers such as describing one family as a "shower of wild beasts".
Do you want the police to analyse the data from the perspective of historical territories? My strict rules ensure that this cannot happen.
The database is free but it is not a free-for-all.
TL
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I am very concerned. Am I correct in understanding that you have nowhere to place these paper records?
This is a hugely precious resource both historically and personally for you but also for many who have benefited from it. I think what you seem to have amassed is insurmountable and should be treated as such. I know about the problems of storage of such things as my late father created a huge resource in folk history which my daughter is now cataloguing and thankfully has found a caring home.
I appeal to all those who may or defintiely have a gypsy heritage - this is an important issue and should be taken in hand.
Best wishes
Amanda Stone
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As an aside:
I quite enjoy the comical remarks - the clergy were openly disgusting in their treatment of anyone who fell outside a very narrow range of what they considered respectable. Anyone who has trawled the original records will have noticed that their contempt is almost palpable. Since most of us came from common folk anyway - we will not be deterred. No wonder the Methodist and similar movements took off. Glad to say one of my ancestors were amongst the first to choose the registry office for their marriage - good on them.
A
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I to like all the little comments that are written in the registers etc. chuckled away in those registry offices many a time :D while searching.
It is such a shame that these records are not offered storage as their information would benefit us all. Please don't give up trying to "home" them just yet king otg.
You never what's round the corner!
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I have started to disassemble over 200 ring-binder files.
Approximately 50,000 factual entries have been uploaded as if they were parts of a giant jigsaw puzzle with plenty of contextual clues without necessarily doing all the work. I believe that family historians prefer to make their own discoveries and the information is now gathered for that purpose.
The material being destroyed consists of 1) additional evidence, which can still be seen by following the indexed information to its source, and 2) speculative pedigrees which gather details from a variety of sources. They can be reproduced by putting all the available information together including certificates, census extracts, other people’s contributions and JGLS notes.
Nothing less than a very large, factual, well organised and easily accessible database is going to be fit for purpose and, after division into six regions, the database has been deposited at 30 record offices. Since some of the depositories are still to officially acknowledge receipt and because we are still sorting out the conditions of use I will delay giving a final list.
There is also a list of Record Offices that will not be participating and a large number of Record Offices that know nothing about the database and can still be approached and educated about it.
TL
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Below is the final list of record offices and local history libraries that are authorised to share my database and a list of those which are not. I hope there is no confusion over the constantly changing details but some of the conditions of deposit have been found to be unacceptable.
These are the conditions of deposit, as I understand them, although human nature dictates that there will be regional variations. The rules listed here are all approved by me. The aim is to encourage genuine research and discourage any attempt to gather the whole database in one place.
The authorised record offices will assist people who visit them. As author I am entitled to limit the amount of photocopying to zero but I am allowing photocopies of pages to be made, under the supervision of the duty archivist, for the purpose of helping the researcher avoid transcription errors and to make efficient use of time.
The record office is not permitted to give, sell, lend or copy the complete database to anybody, including other record offices, which means that those depositories that are not participating should not hold a copy even though several of them have been in possession of one at some stage.
The database must not be indexed, turned into digitised images, or placed online except to notify the public of its existence and location. The record office administers, protects and preserves it for the benefit of its customers, subject to the relevant copyright legislation. The record office is entitled to make back-up copies of the database but only for the purpose of preserving its contents. Recent legislation has determined that the CD-ROM must be used on one particular computer under supervision. USB sticks are not permitted.
The database must not be transferred by any form of post. This rules out some people, especially those who live outside of the U.K., although there is a reason for it which is that I am moving overseas early next year where the same material will be divided into 9 equal parts, each just over 130 pages in length, which will be sold as printed books. The division is alphabetical and the titles will be:
1 of 9 Abbott to Boswell
2 of 9 Botton to Cooper
3 of 9 Coopling to Gray
4 of 9 Grayson to Keene
5 of 9 Keet to Loveridge
6 of 9 Lovett to Ponto
7 of 9 Poole to Smith (baptisms to Lancashire)
8 of 9 Smith (baptisms Leicestershire) to Swainson
9 of 9 Swales to Zachary
Since I went on my final trip after distributing the six regional databases they are all now slightly out of date although I cannot say that just a few changes have been made because I tend to gather a considerable amount of information. The work contains factual entries while additional remarks are placed within square brackets. All the entries are either gipsylike or known to be connected to travelling people. There are numerous instances of itinerants who may not have been gipsies but who had similar occupations.
This is the final list of 23 authorised record offices and local history libraries:
Eastern England & East Midlands Gipsy Index (EGI)
Bedford
Cambridge
Huntingdon
Matlock
Wigston Magna
Greater London Gipsy Index (GLGI)
Bexley Library
Bromley Library
Northern England Gipsy Index (NGI)
Doncaster
Durham
Northallerton
Newcastle
South East England Gipsy Index (SEGI)
Bexley Library
Bromley Library
Canterbury
Strood
South Central & South West Gipsy Index (SWGI)
Chippenham
Norton Fitzwarren
Oxford
Winchester *
Wales & West England Gipsy Index (WGI)
Aberystwyth (NLW)
Gloucester
Hawarden
Leckwith
Shropshire
Stafford
The following record offices and local history libraries will not be participating:
Aylesbury
Beverley
Birmingham
Bristol
Carlisle
Chester
Chichester
Dorchester
Hereford
Hertford
Heslington
Ilford
Kendal
Liverpool
London Metropolitan Archives
Maidstone
Reading
Sheffield
Sowton
Truro
Walthamstow
Woking
Woodhorn
Worcester
One record office, Warwick, is still being decided.
TL
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Warwickshire Record Office is now confirmed as one of the participants.
TL
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So that I do not have to answer the same questions repeatedly I am responding to issues raised in PMs.
Somerset is one of the Record Offices having the South West database. Norton Fitzwarren is a short bus journey from Taunton.
In organising the database for public use each of the selected record offices has had a chance to show that they are going to give a fair deal to everybody. Ultimately it is my decision to deposit and I have chosen those which I regard as most agreeable. It would not be appropriate to make the details public.
I have seen no prejudice on account of the subject-matter. On the contrary, the vast majority of record offices (including those that have been rejected for one reason or another) have been delighted at the possibility of having the database for their region. It is pure coincidence that large parts of the country are not served.
If you study this thread, especially at the start, it does suggest that lobbying the record office could get results although that likelihood may be receding because record offices tend to respond to enquiries from you rather than to request free copies on their own initiative.
Of course, I could hand a copy of the database to anybody that asks but I did not receive enough enquiries when I was prepared to do that and it is not something that can be given to just a few people because they could become the millionaires instead of me.
TL
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The A to Z of Gipsy Genealogies (1,190 pages, approx 50,000 entries) a database on CD-ROM compiled by Terence Lee of Sedbergh, Cumbria.
Last year I deposited the regional divisions of my database (GLGI, EGI, NGI, SEGI, SWGI & WGI) at about 20 selected Record Offices. I have, since then, updated the full ‘unexpurgated’ edition which is 1,190 pages in length (too heavy to carry if printed) comprising mostly baptisms, marriages and burials for gipsies and travellers.
The difference is that the full version covers all of England and Wales and a little of Scotland. It means that you only have to visit one of the Record Offices listed below to see records of gipsies and travellers for the whole country.
The following Record Offices and libraries have been (or are about to be) sent the full and final version which can be viewed by anyone free of charge. It is just a matter of contacting the chosen Record Office to make an appointment (assuming appointments are needed). All Record Offices have their own set of rules which are designed to help visitors do research. In this case you simply ask if they have Terence Lee’s gipsy database, the full version
The first four are libraries. the remainder are Record Offices.
Aberystwyth (National Library of Wales)
Bexley Library (KT.BX)
British Library (processing time means it will not be immediately available here)
Bromley Library (KT.BRO)
Cambridge (CAM)
Canterbury (E.KT)
Chippenham (WIL)
Doncaster (YKS.DON)
Durham (DUR)
Gloucester (GLO)
Huntingdon (HUN)
Kendal (WML)
Leckwith (GLM)
Matlock (DBY)
Nothallerton (YKS.NLN)
Reading (BRK)
Shrewsbury (SHR)
Stafford (STF)
Wigston Magna (LEI)
Winchester (HAM)
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Due to serious ill health this will be my last posting on Rootschat.
The following Record offices and library have so far acknowledged receipt of the CD-ROM described above. Others may do so later although I will be unable to notify anybody.
Bromley Library (KT.BRO)
Cambridge (CAM)
Chippenham (WIL)
Reading (BRK)
Shrewsbury (SHR)
Wigston Magna (LEI)
It would be a good idea to check, in advance of a visit, to ensure that it is available.
TL