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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: benicio on Friday 10 May 13 12:39 BST (UK)

Title: Keighley Pieman
Post by: benicio on Friday 10 May 13 12:39 BST (UK)
I am researching the death of a man by the name of Richard Kenny whom lived at 6 King Street, Keighley. (drowning in a canal, "about a mile and a half from Keighley, in the direction of Silsden" per The  Yorkshire Evening Post 08 Jun 1897)

I have located two short clippings of his death on the Findmypast.co.uk website but I find their search function to be difficult to utilize.  What/where (in your opinion) would be the most robust database of UK newspapers (specifically Yorkshire) be located online?  I am in the US and unable to physically visit the Keighley libraries.

My end goal is to identify where Mr. James Kenny was buried.  He was Roman Catholic.

Thanks for any ideas/assistance-

Ben Fleming
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 10 May 13 14:49 BST (UK)
Hi

Can you clarify who you are researching?

Quote
I am researching the death of a man by the name of Richard Kenny


Quote
My end goal is to identify where Mr. James Kenny was buried.  He was Roman Catholic

From freebmd

Deaths June qtr 1897   

James Kenny  aged 43  Skipton  9a 31

There is no death for a Richard Kenny
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 10 May 13 14:54 BST (UK)
Keighley was not part of the Skipton Registration District but Silsden was so his death would be registered in the district in which he died or in which his body was found  - presumably Silsden

He was buried on 11th June  in Utley Cemetary - no other details known

Utley Cemetery
Skipton Rd Keighley BD20 6EJ‎
Tel: 01535 603162
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: benicio on Friday 10 May 13 15:40 BST (UK)
apologies, I am indeed researching James Kenny, (Richard was his son - typo on my part)

Thank you very much Carole.

I was able to call the cemetery and have now obtained a lot of useful information.



Ben
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: dobfarm on Friday 10 May 13 18:55 BST (UK)
I would email/phone Leeds local studies library to send a copy of the event in the Yorkshire post evening news. There maybe a peanut charge for a copy of - overseas airmail postal charges and copy printing out charge

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/leisure/Pages/Local-and-family-history-service.aspx

or

(Your best option)

The Keighley Telegraph & Argus newspaper at Keighley library

 http://www.bradford.gov.uk/bmdc/leisure_and_culture/library_and_information_services/a-z_of_libraries/libraries_keighley_library




Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: Mavals on Friday 10 May 13 20:17 BST (UK)
Keighley Library also has a large collection of films with Keighley News and other local  papers. Craven Herald is is the paper for Skipton. You get a bit of overlap between the papers.

Keighley also has transcripts of St Anne's Church, the RC in Keighley .As he is buried in Utley Cemetery, the funeral service could have taken place there.

Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: benicio on Wednesday 22 May 13 21:56 BST (UK)
Thanks to everyone for helping me unlock the mystery surrounding the Pieman.  I am attaching some additional data I have located in the event anyone is curious. (in order of published date):

The Yorkshire Evening Post - 8 Jun 1897:

(http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/0d1d01f5-ede6-4ace-8f2f-82b4684c8183.jpg?Client=Trees&NamespaceID=1093)

The Herald - 11 Jun 1897:

(http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/27840ff7-5099-41ae-b980-95506724dc90.jpg?Client=Trees&NamespaceID=1093)

The Leeds Times - 12 Jun 1897:

(http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/60bf0fcf-dc07-4999-b0d1-03e88d421653.jpg?Client=Trees&NamespaceID=1093)

James Kenny is buried in Utley Cemetery (Section E; Grave 225); Along with his yound daughter Catherine and two other individuals.  There is no marker on the grave.  James' spouse Annie Eliza (Donigan - spelled many different ways depending on the source) moved the family to Massachusetts not long after his passing where most remained for the rest of their lives.  Annie died on April 19, 1948 and is buried in Lawrence, Massachusetts.

Did James take his own life?  Did he suffer some sort of injury while an iron worker earlier in life?  Which sister is mentioned in the article?  Why was she in the asylum? 

Any suggestions on where to go next?

Special thanks to the Keighley Local Studies library, CaroleW, dobfarm, and Mavals.

Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 22 May 13 22:39 BST (UK)
One would think a person who was an accomplished swimmer would find another way to take his life. Premeditated thinking!! of trying to drowned ones self, even in very cold water in a canal, the distance to the side is short, and trying to do it would be near impossible for a good swimmer intentionally.

 If he fell, slipped in the canal due to his bad health unintentionally by accident over come by sudden sharp shock of cold water unexpected! and his bad health, then it would possible to drowned even if he could swim.

Intent or accident by the way they found him
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: benicio on Thursday 23 May 13 02:53 BST (UK)
I tend to agree with your train of thought, however, the thing that is giving me pause in totally agreeing with you is the following sentence from The Yorkshire Evening Post 8 Jun 1897 "Yesterday morning, on leaving home, he made use of language suggesting that he might not come back."

Although I supposed if you are knowingly going to kill yourself, you wouldn't do so with money in your pocket when you are leaving a family behind who could definitely use it.

Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: dobfarm on Thursday 23 May 13 04:46 BST (UK)
Maybe heartattack that would fit with his other complaints symptoms or shock after falling in clinching his cap and coat with the pain stress of the sudden instant attack on his heart
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: benicio on Thursday 06 June 13 14:16 BST (UK)
I just received a copy of the 'Certified Copy of an Entry of Death' from the GRO for James Kenny. 

Transcription:

When and where died:  Found dead Seventh June 1897; Leeds and Liverpool Canal; Silsden U.D.
Name and surname:  James Kenny
Sex:  Male
Age:  43
Occupation:  General Labourer
Cause of death:  Found drowned; No mark of violence upon his person
Signature, description and residence of informant:  Certificate received from T.P. Brown; Coroner for Craven District; Inquest held Ninth June 1897
When registered:  Twelfth June 1897
Signature of registrar:  A.H. Dawson, Registrar

I have sent an email request to the West Yorkshire Archive Service, in an attempt to obtain the coroner's inquest.  Hopefully, they will be able to locate it.

benicio
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: benicio on Friday 07 June 13 13:42 BST (UK)
I just received the data contained in the Coroner's inquest from the Wakefield Archives.  Unfortunatly, not too much data was recorded. 

Transcription of data provided via email:

Number: 19
Held when: 1897 June 9th
Held where: Liberal Club, Silsden
Name and surname: James Kenny
Age: 43
Verdict:  Found drowned in the Leeds and Liverpool Canal no mark of violence
Expenses paid by coroner: £2 16s 6d
Miles: 6
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: dobfarm on Friday 07 June 13 16:42 BST (UK)
As I said before, for an accomplished swimmer to try to commit suicide in a calm still shallow waters of a canal in warm June, who would not panic like a non swimmer and  it would be like trying to sink one of the polystyrene floats at the swimming baths to a good swimmer. Therefore there must be some other reason.  ???
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 08 June 13 01:22 BST (UK)
Apart from anything else , i would think the Leeds/Liverpool canal would have been a pretty unhealthy place to go anywhere near at that time , especially around Keighley with all the mills . Pollution from the mills dye works , coal , heavy barges and then the summer heat . Even in the 1960s the water could change colour depending on what dyes were being used in the mills . A few mouthfulls of it would be nasty enough i imagine . Dangerous places .
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: benicio on Tuesday 25 June 13 17:17 BST (UK)
From what I can tell the following RC Churches are located in Keighley:

St. Anne's
Christ the King
Our Lady of Victories
St. Joseph's

Of these, what would be my best bet for locating funeral information (if it exists) for James Kenney?  Bearing in mind that the family lived on 6 King Street when he died and the year was 1897.

Thanks,

Ben
Title: Re: Keighley Pieman
Post by: sallyyorks on Friday 18 October 13 15:50 BST (UK)
I tend to agree with your train of thought, however, the thing that is giving me pause in totally agreeing with you is the following sentence from The Yorkshire Evening Post 8 Jun 1897 "Yesterday morning, on leaving home, he made use of language suggesting that he might not come back."

Although I supposed if you are knowingly going to kill yourself, you wouldn't do so with money in your pocket when you are leaving a family behind who could definitely use it.

Have been thinking about your James this week.
Last week i  looked up two deaths in the Leeds library  newspaper archives.
A father (48 b Keighley)  whose body  was found in sept 1900  "dreadfully mutilated"  after being hit by a train on the down line at Manningham, (Bradford) train station (not far from Keighley) .  Eight months later 1901 his eldest son (29) drunk,  threw himself in the canal at Bradford and drowned himself , " verdict suicide" . The canal ran pararell to the train tracks at Manningham where his father died. There were other suicides reported in the same newspaper column. The headline was "The Epidemic Of Suicides. Another Batch Of Cases From Bradford"
It would seem some people did commit suicide in the canals . I think your chap might have comitted suicide too. Life was so very hard for them, the areas slum  living and mill working conditions were quite bad.