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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: kirky on Thursday 09 June 05 20:13 BST (UK)
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Looking for people with these surnames and places
Kirk- Dunfermline/Lochgelly
Philp- Coalton of Balgonie Markinch/Newgilston Largo
Gourdie-Balmalcolm,Kettle/Lochgelly
Wishart-Pitlessie,Cults
More-Ceres/Lochgelly/Cowdenbeath/Cupar
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sorry Kirky, but I dont have any of those families.
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fao Kirky; pptaylor; sgt tollers
MELVILLE, PHILP, THALLON
Isabella Melville married George Philp 8th Oct 1796. She was born in 1768 in Coaltown of Balgonie to David Melville and Katherine Smith. The Philps were another old Coaltown family and I have details of George's family back to his 2nd Great Grandfather all living at Coaltown as far back as 1693.
George and Isabella are my 3rd Great Grandparents. Their daughter Barbara Philp married George Hutchison (at one time publican at Coaltown) whose Grandmother was (I believe) Isabella Thallon who is listed in the FFHS list of Burials at Markinch. I have nothing more on the Thallon family and would welcome any information.
ftp://
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Thank's for that info there could be a connection somewhere, my ancestry with Philp surname start with James and Grizel Philp nee Hutton married 1786 in Kennoway but there first four son's where all Born in Markinch one of them Robert Philp born 1790 stayed in the Coalton of Balgonie on of his many children was named George born 1818 in Kettle he is my 3x Grandfather.
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Hiya Kirky;
I have a Christina Low PHILP b April 1844 of Ann LOW and David PHILP. Apparently she was born in "Brunthill, Inverkeithing, Fife," which seems like 3 wild guesses to me!
I have no other sibs or whatnot for her. She married Alexander KELLY in 1864 and had a tribe of kids. She came to Australia with the family and died here in Brisbane in 1888.
Any connection?
Sonjainoz.
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Sonjainoz,
Have you tried the IGI at
http://www.familysearch.org
It has (extracted entries from church registers) the following:
David PHILIP m Anne LOW, 12 Nov 1842, Dunfermline Fife
David PHILLIP m Ann LOW, 21 Nov 1842, Inverkeithing Fife
(These are presumably Banns being called in both the bride's and the groom's parishes).
Also records of the following children to them:
Margaret PHILP b 1 Feb 1857, Inverkeithing Fife
Agnes PHILLIP b 1 Jan 1860, Inverkeithing Fife
David PHILP b 26 Oct 1862, Inverkeithing Fife
The above are extracted from the Statutory Registers (statutory registration began in Scotland in 1855).
There are also LDS patron submissions for several other children (these might, or might not, be reliable):
Andrew ca 1843
Christina ca 1845
Isabella ca 1847
Helen ca 1849
Anna ca 1852
Georgina ca 1855
Andrew ca 1866
As David and Ann were still having children after Statutory Registration was introduced, you should be able to find their death certificates on ScotlandsPeople (a pay per view site) at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
These should give the names of their parents ...
Incidentally, PHILP (and variants) is a very common name in Fife.
Regards,
JAP
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The 1861 Inverkeithing Parochial Directory at:
http://fifefhs.org/Records/Directory/inverkeithing.htm
lists under 'Farmers'
Philp, David, Burnthill
In the 1881 census, David is listed at Annfield Farm, Inverkeithing:
PHILP David, Head, Farmer of 124 acres arable employing 1 man, aged 59 and born in Aberdour
PHILP Ann, David's wife, aged 60 and born in Inverkeithing
PHILP Georgina P, David's daughter, a Domestic Servant, aged 26 and born in Inverkeithing
PHILP Margaret, David's daughter, a Domestic Servant aged 24 and born in Inverkeithing
PHILP David, David's son, an Agricultural Labourer, aged 18 and born in Inverkeithing
PHILP Alexander, David's nephew, a Gardener, aged 18 and born in America
PHILP Robert, David's nephew, an Agricultural Labourer, aged 16 and born in America
PHILP James, David's nephew, a Scholar, aged 15 and born in America
You should be able to find the entry for David and family in the 1871 census which is available on ScotlandsPeople.
The entry in Mitchell's 1972 book of West Fife Memorial Inscriptions reads:
Aberdour, St Fillans Churchyard, Wester Churchyard, #13 David Philp farmer Burnhill & Annfield 20.9.1885 63, w Annie Lowe d. here 11.2.1910 89, chn Bella 26.11.1869 23 d. Brisbane Queensland (w of John Martin), Annie 16.3.1873 21, Christina d. Brisbane Queensland 23.3.1888 44 (w. of Alex Kelly VS, Georgina d. Powstanie Guardbridge 12.7.1933 81 (wid of David Erskine farmer Myrend Gairneyhill); 1886.
A transcription made by a member of the Rootsweb Fife mailing lists reads:
The first is a very imposing (expensive) obelisk inscribed on the top 'PHILLIPS' although the other inscriptions are PHILP, it is inscribed on three sides - side 1 "Erected by Annie Low in memory of her beloved husband David Philp farmer Burnthill and Annfield who died 20th September 1885 aged 63 years also the above Annie Low who died at Aberdour 11th Feb 1910 age 89 years, Asleep in Jesus far from thee/Thy kindred and their graves may be/But thine is still a blessed sleep/From which none ever wakes to weep"; - side 2 "and of their daughter Georgina Widow of David Erskine farmer Myrend Cairneyhill who died at Powstanie Guardbridge on 12th July 1935 aged 81 years"; - side 3 "and of their family Bella wife of John Martin who died in Brisbane Queensland 26th Nov. 1869 aged 23 years. Annie who died 16th March 1873 aged 21 years. Christina wife of Alexr Kelly V.S. died also in Brisbane Queensland 23rd March 1888 aged 44 years".
JAP
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sonjainoz,
I didn't hear anything back from you about my two posts above. I trust all is well.
By chance today I was looking back through my children's PHILP/PHILIP line and decided to purchase/download the death cert of Christina (PHILP) KELLY's father David PHILP. And this linked him, and all his descendants, to my children's PHILP/LOCHTIE lines (LOCHTIE a very rare name - there was much intermarriage). I Googled for PHILP+genealogy+Fife+Inverkeithing and ended up back at my own posts on RootsChat! Apart from David's daughters Christina and Bella, a son (Andrew) of David's brother (John) also went to Queensland (and seems to have ended up as PHILLIPS). There were, of course, many PHILPs who went to Queensland but this is the only line where I can make a connexion - this is rather unfortunate given that the unconnected ones all seem to have been persons of note.
I wonder whether you are still reading RootsChat and whether you have extended your own knowledge at all.
JAP
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Hi JAP,
Sorry I have been a bit slack. Back from UK & Paris just 3 weeks ago and the work has gone nuts!
I had been hoping to get to the said cemetary and take photos but I will have to do that another time! I do have pics of graves here in Qld if you are interested.
I guess you are related to the 'colonists" lol! I have a lot of information on this family here in Australia. If you are interested, I am more than happy to share!
Many thanks for all the info you so kindly passed onto me. I really do appreciate it - I am just a bit slack! My family history searching goes in fits and farts! Sometimes it is all, sometimes it is zip!
The PHILP/KELLY family were quite noteable here in the Brisbane area. The family married into the UHLMANN family (my hubby) and into the PAVEY family- bakers and grocers. All very prolific breeders, I might add, at the risk of offending someone! Huge family limbs here!
LMK if I can help with any of the Ozzie stuff.
Warm regards and many thanks once again.
Sonja
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Hello Sonja,
Here is an outline of Christina's paternal ancestry. I will post it here as who knows - it might be of interest to someone else too.
Christina's parents:
David PHILP and Ann LOW
David was born ca 1822, Aberdour.
David and Ann were married in 1842, entries in Dunfermline and Inverkeithing.
David died in 1885.
David's parents:
Andrew PHILP and Isabel HOY
Andrew was born in 1790 - the Aberdour parish register reads "1790 Aug 7th Born to John Philp and Margt Sharp his Spouse a son baptd 21st named Andrew".
Andrew and Isabel married in Ballingry in 1814.
Andrew died in 1839 - the Aberdour parish register reads "1839 Andrew Philp Labourer, residing at Burnthill, Par. of Dalgety 48 Died 1st August & was interred on 3rd Currt in the New Church Yard"
Andrew's parents:
John PHILP and Margaret SHARP
John was born 4 Oct, bap 15 Oct 1764, son of John PHILP and Christian LOCHTIE
John and Margaret married in 1787. The Aberdour parish register reads "1787 Oct 3d Contracted John Philip; and Margt Sharp in the parish of Beath, and after regular proclamation were married".
John married for a second time in 1801. The Aberdour parish register reads "Aberdour Parish Register 1801 - ?2d? May Contracted John Philp in this Parish & Catharine Johnston in Parish of Dalgety and after regular proclamation were married".
John and Catherine were at Bankhead, Dalgety in the 1841 census - John's son Robert was farming Bankhead.
I do not have John's death but he was still alive when his second wife Catherine died in 1847. The Aberdour parish register reads "1847 Catherine Johnston Wife of John Philp senr Keltie, Parish of Beath - 78 Died 18th March and was interred on 21st Currt in the Old Churchyard". John's son John was farming Grievesland, Kelty, Beath.
John's parents:
John PHILP and Christian LOCHTIE
I do not have John's birth or parents.
John and Christian were married on 7 Nov 1762. The Aberdour parish register reads "October ye 23d 1762 Contracted John Philp in the parish of Dumfermline (sic) and Chirstain (sic) Lochtie in this pairsh (sic), and being proclaimed ye 1st time ye 24th ye 2d time 31th an 3d time November 7th they were Maired (sic) after their proclamation".
I do not have John's death but Christian was a widow when she died in 1819.
Christian was born 12 Mar, bap 20 Mar 1743 at Burntisland, daughter of John LOCHTIE and Bettie CUMMIN.
She died in 1819. The Aberdour parish register reads "Decemr 20th 1819 Died at Braehead in this Parish Christian Lochtie Widow of John Philp aged 75 and was interred on the 23rd Currt in Auchtertool Church Yard".
Christian's parents:
John LOCHTIE and Elizabeth CUMMIN
I do not have John's birth date or parentage.
John and Elizabeth were married in 1730. The Aberdour parish register reads "Novr 28th 1730 This day contracted John Lochtie in ys and Elizabeth Cupar [sic] in the Parish of Dunfermline and [section all scrawled over] and Dec 6th pro 3io Dec 13th were married Dec 29th 1730". The Dunfermline parish register for Dec 1730 reads "John Lochtie in Aberdour parish & Elizabeth Cummin in ys Parish was married ye 29th".
I do not have John's death date.
Elizabeth (both forename and surname vary) was christened 11 Mar 1711. The Dunfermline parish register reads "John Cummin had a woman child born to him of his wife Margaret Lawsone the second day of March 1711 and baptized yd. eleventh day called Bessie witnesses John King and James Primrose."
I do not have Elizabeth/Bessie's death date.
Elizabeth/Bessie's parents:
John CUMMIN (various spellings) and Margaret LAWSON (various spellings).
John was probably born 1 Apr 1680 - he is probably the following in the Dunfermline parish register "1 Apr 1680 Johne Cumyn and Margaret Jak had Johne; witnesses, Andro Jak, Johne Peirson, David Trumble".
John married first a Grissall WALKER and had children between 1701 and 1707.
John married Margaret LAWSON on 3 Oct 1707 in Dunfermline.
John died 18 Mar 1743 in Torryburn.
Margaret's birth and parentage are uncertain.
Margaret, listed as a widow, died 15 Jun 1751 at Sillytown, Torryburn.
JAP
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Sonja,
Just to tie up the (distant) connexion, my children's GGGGGparents were John PHILP and Margaret SHARP. John and Margaret had John, Andrew ('yours'), Robert ('mine') and Jean. Robert PHILP married Margaret LOCHTIE in 1821 and had several children at Bankhead, Dalgety, Fife. One of their children, Robert Lochtie PHILP, came to Australia (Victoria) in 1857; he is my children's GGGfather - this line became PHILIP. Two of his brothers also came to Victoria (one later went to NZ) but they retained the PHILP spelling.
Incidentally, Robert PHILP and Margaret LOCHTIE were 1st cousins once removed, Margaret being a 1st cousin of Robert's father John (though she was nearly 30 years younger than John). Margaret LOCHTIE's father, John LOCHTIE b 1754, was a younger brother of John PHILP's mother, Christian (LOCHTIE) PHILP b 1743.
I will PM my email address and would be interested in your Queensland information at some time.
Regards,
JAP
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I just found this site. I have several families from Dunfermline including Kirks. My Kirks:
Isabella Kirk, b 6 June 1850, Dunfermline, m George Fredrick Handel Kidd. Her parents:
William Kirk & Margaret Ann Winks.
I don't have anything past William Kirk. Is this your Kirk line?
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I know this is pretty old, but regarding the name Philp... I live in Markinch and North Hall Cemetery has lots and lots of Philps buried there. I'd be more than happy to go and find out exact birth and death dates of them there, just let me know.
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Ostler - you are very kind! Thank you so much for your offer.
Being 'down under' I am not sure where North Hall Cem is in relation to Abdour. I know 'my' earlier PHILP and someof the KELLY family were buried in Abdour.
Can I take you up on your generous offer if I happen across any in your area?
Warm regards and enjoy the Spring!
Sonja
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I suppose my post was directed towards kirky who was specifically looking for Philps in Markinch. I assume by "happen across any in your area" you mean either you're coming for a visit or (more likely) you refer to discovering Philps related to you in Markinch?
Either way, let me know and I'll see what I can do. :)
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FAO - JHHutch
Sometimes you get lucky as I was when I came across this post by jhhutch (looks like we are related) In searching for info about my 3 Gt Grandfather George Hutchison I had just established from the 1871 Census that he was a Vintner and married to Barbara Philips. A google search for Barbara brought me to this website. I am descended from George and Barbara's daughter Janet who married Peter Edgar (cabinet maker from Crieff). Their daughter Helen (who married Roderick Mcleod) was my Gt Grandmother.
fao Kirky; pptaylor; sgt tollers
MELVILLE, PHILP, THALLON
Isabella Melville married George Philp 8th Oct 1796. She was born in 1768 in Coaltown of Balgonie to David Melville and Katherine Smith. The Philps were another old Coaltown family and I have details of George's family back to his 2nd Great Grandfather all living at Coaltown as far back as 1693.
George and Isabella are my 3rd Great Grandparents. Their daughter Barbara Philp married George Hutchison (at one time publican at Coaltown) whose Grandmother was (I believe) Isabella Thallon who is listed in the FFHS list of Burials at Markinch. I have nothing more on the Thallon family and would welcome any information.
ftp://
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hi I have kirks in my family tree - what dates are you looking for - have elizabeth balfour and william kirk b strathmiglo auchtermutchy fife
then james kirk and lilias ferguson married 1909
then james kirk and elizabeth ferguson on monimail fife - kind regards bambie
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hi I have kirks in my family tree - can you give me names and dates of yours - and I can tell you if any of them are mine - thanks bambie
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Hi Kirky,
I wonder what you have for WISHART in Cults?
I've now found 2 generations of Wishart ancestors born in Pitlessie, the only village in the parish of Cults.
David (b1830), the father of Robert (b1852). David married Isabella Scott in 1859 so I can't be sure is she was Robert's mother. The family moved to Edinburgh by 1861. Just to confuse matters Robert's marriage cert lists Isabella Scott as his mother but his death cert lists Agnes Ramsay!
J
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Thanks for your reply,
Here is my direct line so far.
William Kirk m Margaret Douglas 1791 Dunfermline
Peter Kirk m Janet Stewart 1823 Dunfermline
Peter Kirk m Agnes Walker 1859 Dunfermline
Archibald Carmichael Kirk m Helen Anderson Gourdie 1899 Lochgelly
The birth dates for William I do not know at this time and the second Peter was not registered but according to his death cert he was born about 1836 in Dunfermline
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Hello JAP,
You will probably know me from the postings that I make on the Fife Board. Although I now live in the Land of Oz (Australia), I was born in Kirkcaldy, went to my first school at Auchterderran, lived at Easter Lathrisk Farm near Freuchie with my family at the end of World War II. I still like to think that I'm a Fifer at heart!
I must admit to being absolutely delighted to see your comments relating to such families as PHILP, HOY, and SHARP. You are giving me quite a few "leads" that should keep me out of mischief. Although your comments were not directed at me, nevertheless they will help quite a few people out there as we try to link various individuals to the information that we have put together.
Again, very many thanks for a job really well done.
Kind regards,
Tom.
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Hello Tom,
It's always a pleasure to see someone new turning up on the excellent RootsChat :)
As you possibly have twigged, my children's paternal ancestry comes from Robert Lochtie PHILP/PHILIP (1825 Fife-1868 Vic, Aus), son of Robert PHILP & Margaret LOCHTIE/LOCHTY of Aberdour/Dalgety Fife.
Robert PHILP (1792-1843) was the son of John PHILP (1764-?) & Margaret SHARP (1764-ca 1799). One of Robert's brothers was Andrew PHILP (1790-1839) who married Isabel HOY. And one of the children of Andrew & Isabel was David PHILP (ca 1822-1885) who married Ann LOW (ca 1821-1910).
Best regards,
JAP
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Hello JAP,
It really is great to hear from you, and yes, certain little clue's had begun to click - but that can be put down to my days in the Old Bill in the U.K.!
When you made mention of the Lochtie/Philp connection of 1868 in Victoria, Australia, that really made me sit up since I live just outside Frankston in Victoria.
Would you believe, I used to go to school with a member of the Lochtie family when I went to school at Freuchie in Fife. It really is a small world, isn't it?
The Philp and Hoy families keep popping up in some of those dark and dusty corners of my personal family files and one day I will commence an investigation of all those things. You're perfectly correct about the Fife Board. I really do enjoy helping people out to the best of my limited ability, and when I work with people such as yourself, Monica, Sancti, etc., I feel quite privileged.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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My son in law is a direct descendant of Barbara Philips and George Hutchison via their son Andrew Hutchison. I am researching their family tree at present. I can give you full descendants coming forward from Andrew. Many of the Hutchisons are stillliving near Markinch in Coaltown and Glenrothes. Please contact me -(*) I'd love to 'tie' our family histories!
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George Hutchison - Barbara Philip...children = Janet Hutchison - 20 Dec 1836, Markinch, Fife; George Hutchison - 23 Jul 1838, Markinch; William Hutchison - 26 Mar 1840, Markinch; Robert Hutchison - 17 Nov 1841, Markinch; David Hutchison - 12 Aug 1843, Markinch; John Hutchison - 6 Apr 1846, Markinch; James Hutchison - 4 Sep 1848, Markinch; Lucy Hutchison - 3 Nov 1850, Markinch; Andrew Hutchison - 5 Jul 1852 (direct link to my son in law); Alexander Hutchison - 1 Apr 1854, Markinch; Margaret Hutchison - 29 Mar 1857, Markinch.
ANDREW HUTCHISON married Jeannie Jackson on 13 Nov 1874 at Markinch. I have two children listed - Andrew Hutchison (*) - DOB missing, Markinch; David Hutchison - DOB Missing, Markinch.
ANDREW HUTCHISON married Jane Mitchell Thomson on 10 Jan 1908 at The Manse, Markinch. I have three children listed for them - Andrew Hutchison (*) - 17 Nov 1908, Markinch; George Hutchison - 4 May 1920, Markinch; William thomson Hutchison - 19 Mar 1922, Markinch.
ANDREW HUTCHISON married Jane Isaac Duncan on 4 Oct 1935 at Leslie, Fife, Scotland. I have EIGHT children listed for them - Andrew Hutchison - 29 Sep 1936, Coaltown of Balgonie; Robert Duncan Hutchison - 17 Feb 1942, Coaltown of Balgonie; James Thomson Hutchison - 30 Mar 1943, coaltown of Balgonie; John Duncan Hutchison - 15 May 1946, Coaltown of Balgonie; George Hutchison (* my son in law's father) - 5 Apr 1950, Coaltown of Balgonie; Janet Hutchison - DOB MISSING; Jean Hutchison - DOB MISSING; Margaret Hutchison - DOB MISSING (the latter three are believed to be triplets buried at Markinch Cemetery - the parent refused to talk about them to anyone!)
For privacy reasons please excuse me if I dont go any further forward!
Many of the family are still living in Coaltown of Balgonie; Leslie and Glenrothes.