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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: HistoryBuff819 on Monday 06 May 13 16:57 BST (UK)
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Hello. I was hoping if someone on this board would be able to translate into English, the attached 3 documents that are written/typed in German, dating approx 1920's. This would be extremely helpful in my genealogy research of my family tree and would be very much appreciated.
Thanks.
Richie
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Sorry, can't do German. It's a good idea to put the language you need into the title of your request so it will catch someone's eye. You can edit your post to insert the word 'German.'
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Ok, thanks for the tip.
Richie
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You could try Google Translate which I have found very useful :)
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I tried it with one of the documents and while I got a rough idea of what was said it, it still left some questions.
Thank you
Richie
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the first document is totally unreadable on my iPhone. were you looking to just get the signature translated? or is there any program you can use to clear up the contrast? I basically understand the other two, but my Germans not perfect. I'm I'm town, when I get home ill send you the translations.
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the first one is also backwards? it looks like it was on top of the original and got peeled of the top taking some of the ink with it, do you have access to the original?
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The first one is definitely backwards (perhaps it's as Hayley says, or it's the reverse side of some very thin paper - I have an air-mail letter with similar effects).
Load it to IrfanView (or a similar program) and do a "horizontal flip". It's still hard to read, but some of it comes out clearly. For instance, near the bottom, you can see it was written in Cologne "Köln, den 11. Oktober 1921" (Cologne, 11th. October 1921).
No time at the moment for a full translation, but it seems to be some kind of ruling about whether someone was married (intended to marry ?) or whether they were living in sin ("Sünde der Konkubinate" - sin of concubinage) . It's to do with catholics so there are latin words and phrases sprinkled in it.
Bob
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Just had another look, the original document is number 3 !!! And seems to be the findings of an Ecclesastical Court ... that they didn't intend to marry.
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Shopping done ... I've time now for another look.
A resumeé rather than word for word translation:
According to the sworn statements of the witnesses - the (female) patient, the mother and the sister, the civil marriage took place on 16th. Nov. 1912 in Offenbach on the explicitly expressed agreement, that a a church marriage would follow. The defendant Heinrich Schaub denies this in his statement from 14th March 1920, but this cannot be taken into account because
a) he has refused to be sworn in (not taken under oath)
b) he is not willing to make a statement about the marriage relationship to his wife
c) due to head wounds (shot in the head) his memory is "very limited" and
d) into the bargain, he doesn't actually know, whether he was married in a church.
The brother's testimony can be ignored, as they don't seem to have to him about it .
Perhaps because he was often absent, and was also a 'frivolous' person.
The Wife didn't consider the civil marriage to be a real marriage, and considered herself to be living in the sin of concubinage.
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The patient hadn't intended to marry on the 16th Nov "hic et nunc" [here and now].
The unanimous vote is therefore
matrimonium fuisse nullum ab defeetum consensus
[Google translation: Marriage was no consent from defeetum]
Maybe someone with latin kowledge will translate this better, it's probably a "boiler-plate" statement for such cases.
Bob
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Thank you for your help. The first document is just the stamp and hand writing in the upper right corner and it appears to have the imprint of the third document bleeding thru. The second page is the reverse of page one. If you can translate those it would be greatly appreciated!!!
Richie
Shopping done ... I've time now for another look.
A resumeé rather than word for word translation:
According to the sworn statements of the witnesses - the (female) patient, the mother and the sister, the civil marriage took place on 16th. Nov. 1912 in Offenbach on the explicitly expressed agreement, that a a church marriage would follow. The defendant Heinrich Schaub denies this in his statement from 14th March 1920, but this cannot be taken into account because
a) he has refused to be sworn in (not taken under oath)
b) he is not willing to make a statement about the marriage relationship to his wife
c) due to head wounds (shot in the head) his memory is "very limited" and
d) into the bargain, he doesn't actually know, whether he was married in a church.
The brother's testimony can be ignored, as they don't seem to have to him about it .
Perhaps because he was often absent, and was also a 'frivolous' person.
The Wife didn't consider the civil marriage to be a real marriage, and considered herself to be living in the sin of concubinage.
:
The patient hadn't intended to marry on the 16th Nov "hic et nunc" [here and now].
The unanimous vote is therefore
matrimonium fuisse nullum ab defeetum consensus
[Google translation: Marriage was no consent from defeetum]
Maybe someone with latin kowledge will translate this better, it's probably a "boiler-plate" statement for such cases.
Bob
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I agree with the first translation, with the exception of petentin being petitioner rather than patient
for the other document
Archdiocese of KOLN KOLN the 11th of oct 1921
FINAL MEETING
in the matter of matrimony schaub vs.hausmann on tuesday the 11th of october 1921 the fourth hour after midday
under the chairmanship of the official revered lord prelates canon (dr. steffend) are to present the subpeona to the associated judge(s)
1. decant pastor msgr. dr. Sasse in Dusseldorf
2. canon msgr. Richen Aachen
the ----- vicar dr. Scholl, Koln, Burgmauer Ehevorteitdiger? marriage lawyer?
and the undersigned secretary Muhe, koln, machabaer street 40
THE ORDER OF THE DAY
in the case of schaub vs hausmann "the consensus is marriage is null and void"
after reading the papers of the judge(s), the discussion of the judge(s), the -------?
of the (marriage lawyer?) all are unanimously in agreement following the judgement
in the name of the holy trinity
of Christine Getrude Hausmann 'catholic confession', with heinrich schaub 'not catholic confession' on the 16 of nov 1912 to Offenbach civil contracted marriage-----
there was a lack of willingness to marry from the reasons from (reference numbers)
it is declared annuled
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The unanimous vote is therefore
matrimonium fuisse nullum ab defeetum consensus
[Google translation: Marriage was no consent from defeetum
matrimonium fuisse nullum ob defectum consensus
The marriage was invalid because of the lack of consent
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Thank you for your help, it is GREATLY appreciated and answers quite a few questions.
Richie
The unanimous vote is therefore
matrimonium fuisse nullum ab defeetum consensus
[Google translation: Marriage was no consent from defeetum
matrimonium fuisse nullum ob defectum consensus
The marriage was invalid because of the lack of consent
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Thank you for your help, Your translation help is GREATLY appreciated!! It also answers quite a few questions. Thanks again Richie
I agree with the first translation, with the exception of petentin being petitioner rather than patient
for the other document
Archdiocese of KOLN KOLN the 11th of oct 1921
FINAL MEETING
in the matter of matrimony schaub vs.hausmann on tuesday the 11th of october 1921 the fourth hour after midday
under the chairmanship of the official revered lord prelates canon (dr. steffend) are to present the subpeona to the associated judge(s)
1. decant pastor msgr. dr. Sasse in Dusseldorf
2. canon msgr. Richen Aachen
the ----- vicar dr. Scholl, Koln, Burgmauer Ehevorteitdiger? marriage lawyer?
and the undersigned secretary Muhe, koln, machabaer street 40
THE ORDER OF THE DAY
in the case of schaub vs hausmann "the consensus is marriage is null and void"
after reading the papers of the judge(s), the discussion of the judge(s), the -------?
of the (marriage lawyer?) all are unanimously in agreement following the judgement
in the name of the holy trinity
of Christine Getrude Hausmann 'catholic confession', with heinrich schaub 'not catholic confession' on the 16 of nov 1912 to Offenbach civil contracted marriage-----
there was a lack of willingness to marry from the reasons from (reference numbers)
it is declared annuled