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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jean.ellison on Sunday 05 May 13 10:04 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm looking for any information on my Great Uncle, John Bailey, a Gamekeeper, who died at Bolton Cottage, Bessacarr on the 26 Sep 1944, born c 1870, I have found him in each the census, but was wondering if anyone knows whether Bolton Cottage was a Hospital or a house address? and also does anyone know the Church of England burial ground, around the area, where he and his wife, Alice could be buried?, Alice died, 6 Jul 1956, with same address. As far as I know the couple had four children, Winifred, b1901, John Frederick, b1902, William Henry b1907, all Hickleton and Agnes b1915 at Kirby Under Dale, any information would be much appreciated, best wishes, Jean
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Hiya Jean
I would say its his home address as it states in his Will,John Bailey of Bolton Cottage Bessacarr Doncaster died 26 September 1944. Administration Wakefield 1 November to Alice Bailey Widow. Effects £672-2s.
Regards Carolanne
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Hiya Jean
Alice Bailey
Alice Bailey of Bolton Cottage Bessacarr Doncaster died 6 July 1956 at Fairfield Nursing Home Doncaster.Probate Wakefield 2 August to Agnes Bailey Spinster. Effects £1,329-18s-9d.
Regards Carolanne
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Possible Will for John Frederick Bailey.
John Frederick Bailey of Long Close Bolton Hill Bessacarr Doncaster died 19 February 1966 at The Retreat Haslington Road York, Probate Wakefield12 August to The Yorkshire Bank Limited, £50054.
Regards Carolanne
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Hi Carolanne, thank you for your replies, this is definately the family I'm looking for, funny John Frederick's money went to the Yorkshire bank, maybe he hadn't finished paying his mortgage.
I will be visiting the area next week and hopefully going to have a look to see if I can find their graves, many thanks, Jean
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Hiya Jean
Your welcome, I had a Great Uncle who's Will said the same and I didn't know what to make of it either it could have been that they were just executors of the Will, I might have to send for it just to see what it says.
Regards Carolanne
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Hi Carolanne, do you know how to send for these wills?, I would be very interested in getting this one, best wishes, Jean
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I don't Jean never having done it before so I've Googled and seen this link maybe it would help.
Regards Carolanne
www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms1226.htm
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Thanks, will try this out, regards, Jean
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It might be of interest for you to learn that the sums mentioned in your posts would be worth,according to the National Archives:-
£672.2 =£1744...........at 2005 prices
£1329.18.9...=£23167.51....." " "
£50054...=£233,694.44..." " "
Good hunting
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Thank you for taking the time to send this information, what an eye opener,
best wishes, Jean
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Hi, I hope you don’t mind me commenting on an old post but I am fairly positive that the John Bailey you seek is my Great Grandfather.
I wonder if you would like to chat further to share any information we both might have. Thanks Lucy
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Hi Lucy, hopefully you have received my personal message with my email address, if not please let me know, my John was married to a Alice Popplewell and they had four children, two girls and two boys, one of the boys died quite young in a accident, would love to hear from you to compare notes, regards Jean.
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Hi, This maybe years late, but Bolton Cottage still exists in 2020, it used to stand on its on own, but in the late 70’s early 80’s three large houses were built in its grounds and it was itself altered. If you travel down Stoops Lane from Bawtry Road, on your right is a playing field (Former Sand Pit/Quarry). The first house on your right is a bungalow, built in the very early 70’s. Adjacent to this is Bolton Cottage. This is all before the junction with Broughton Road. Old maps will show the lane in front of Bolton Cottage as Stoops Lane and the initial part of what is now Stoops Lane from Bawtry Road as Bessacarr Lane just to confuse things. There were no other houses anywhere near Bolton Cottage until the 1950’s except for a Farm located at what is now the entrance to the Hollows on Bessacarr Lane. The Hollows are located in another Sand Pit, the farm was demolished in the late 1960’s to make way for housing. I do remember an old lady living in Bolton Cottage in 1972 and she may have been related to previous occupants. The Cottage was empty in mid 1973 and got vandalised. This maybe of interest. Regards Dave.
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Hi Dave, thank you for getting in touch, your information is very interesting, I think the lady who lived there in the 70's could possibly have been Agnes Bailey, John's unmarried daughter.
I did send for John s death certificate and found out he was a retired managing director of Bessacarr Sand and Gravel company, he died in Bolton Cottage on the 26 Sep 1944, he went into the bathroom and shot himself in the head, so sad.
Next time I am in the area I will see if I can find the cottage, in the mean time I'm going to take a look on Google maps, many thanks again, Jean.
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Hello again Jean, Although my interest in all this is really only to do with the area where I lived from 1964 to 1983 some of it may be of interest to you. Bolton Cottage can be located on Goggle Earth by ‘Bolton Cottage 299 Stoops Lane DN4 7PS’. It even has the name above the front door. It is now somewhat different from the original having been altered in the 70’s. It didn’t before this time have the garage and room(s) above such or the extension by the kitchen. It mirrored a child’s drawing of a house ie a rectangle with a door dead centre, four windows symmetrically positioned, no porch, but a canopy/roof running the front width of the property just above the front windows/door. It did not have the imitation external wood frame or beige wall colour, it was just attractive brick with simple tiled/slate roof/canopy. As you entered, the staircase was immediately in front of you, to the left a small front room with no other access, to the right a lounge running full depth of the house and giving access to the kitchen behind the left hand front room. The kitchen had a door leading to the giant garden. Upstairs on the right was a bedroom as per the lounge below. To the left was the other bedroom which extended over the stairs. The bathroom would have been directly over the kitchen, but I have no recollection of it. In the attic there were two pieces of full scale rail track ( as per British Rail ). It always intrigued me how and why they were there (30/40 ft long 8in W/D), but now finding that John was associated with the sand/gravel pits and there had been a railway line running into one of the quarrys ( along what is now ‘Long Close’ )maybe the company built the Cottage and used some spare rails in its construction. In the simple kitchen there were three large draws beside the sink each approx 10”x2ftx2ft, I acquired these to make a bookcase and upon my Mother’s death last year was surprised to find them in the summerhouse 46 years later. I note in one of the entries in this thread that John Fredrick Bailey lived in Long Close and died in 1966. Long Close was basically a long field containing only one bungalow, this bungalow was incorporated in a later large housing development and I believe has recently been demolished and replaced with 2 large houses, but if you Goggle Earth 35 Long Close the satellite view will show the new houses, but street level will show a hedge and the roof and part of the bungalow. In 1965 or 1966 the Gardener to this property was murdered there by two youths who had absconded from borstal. Many years later I learnt the gardener had been shot with his own gun after refusing to give the youths money and his body hidden in the coal house. As John Fredrick seems to have left £50,000 in his will in 1966 and houses in Broughton Road at this time we’re selling for £4000 he was probably a man of substantial means and may have owned the bungalow and surrounding land. Anyway this may all be of no interest to you, but if you have any desire for any other information please let me know. Regards Dave
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Hi Dave, thank you so much for this information, I found it most interesting and with your description of the house, I could imagine being there myself, John Frederick would have been my Great grandfather's nephew, I was in touch with his daughter some months ago, she stills lives in Bessacarr.
I will look in the Newspaper Archives and see if I can find anything on the shooting you mentioned, it all is very intriguing, thank you so much for sharing, Jean.
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Hi Dave, just had a thought as you know the area so well, do you remember a Hollies farm in Bessacarr?, John s daughter, Winifred married a John U Ekstrom and that was their address in 1939, regards Jean.
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Hi Jean, The nearest farm to Bolton Cottage and also Long Close was Holly Farm. It was the farm I initially mentioned to you on Bessacarr Lane , it adjoined another farm Middle Farm and as a child it just seemed to be one farm. It had a sort of riding school there in the mid 1960’s (Bessacarr Riding School) before all the new houses were built. It was at the entrance to the Hollows housing area. It was no more than 100 yards from Bolton Cottage. The only other farms in the area were Top Hall ( a House when I lived in the area ) Manor Farm across the Railway Line (demolished in the late 80’s and now being turned into a housing estate) Low Ellers (Demolished in late 70’s maybe early 80’s)but replaced beyond a railway line, High Ellers ( Demolished before I lived there). I’ll try sometime to email you maps of the area through the years, as they would make things a lot clearer, but don’t hold your breath as I’m not very good at some of this computer wizardry and often things just disappear after hours of effort. The maps would indicate how peaceful and tranquil the area around Bolton Cottage would have been before all the new housing had been built. I well remember walking with my father down the OLD Stoops Lane, which was just a farm track of shale/ash, that ran directly in front of Bolton Cottage in 1965 and watching farmers gather a harvest of wheat or something just like in a film of old. Regards Dave.
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Hi Dave, thanks again, they must have been a close family, it's lovely that your memories are so vivid, you describe the area so well. One last question, if you don't mind?, John had a son called William Henry Bailey born 1908 died 1919, in a drowning accident, in a part of the river known as the Bull Hole, on the death certificate it gave their address as The White Hart hotel, so not sure if they were on holiday, have you ever heard of this place?, best wishes Jean.
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Hello again Jean, I don’t know The White Hart Hotel, or a river with any reference to Bull Hole, but having read the early parts of this thread ie they used to live 6 miles from Doncaster at Hickleton pre 1915 and then Agnes was born near York and I don’t think the quarrys at Bessacarr were operational until several years later, I imagine they had no association with Bessacarr at the time of this tragedy.
There were no Hotels near Bessacarr until 1939 when Punch’s Hotel ( now a Toby Carvery )was built on the Bawtry Road (Old A1) not far from Bolton Cottage. There was absolutely nothing else other than farms or houses in Bessacarr until the mid 1950’s when two small shops were built at the beginning of Broughton Road just below Punch’s Hotel. Before this no shops, no schools , no Pubs, no churches, absolutely nothing. Sheer bliss I imagine. Do you know the actual name of the river ? As I stated before when I can get my act together I’ll email you maps over the years of Bessacarr as a picture paints a thousand years, I even came across two aerial photos taken of nearly the whole of Bessacarr taken in the very early 1960’s although I don’t yet have the actual date yet, although small scale you can see Bolton Cottage, Long Close ( the house not the later developed road ) Holly Farm, even the original end of Broughton Road, plus all the fields in their glory. Compared to the present day scene it’s hard to imagine unless you see it. Regards Dave
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Hi Dave, the maps sound great, it's very hard to imagine what an area looked like without them.
The death certificate didn't mention the river, but did mention this all happened at a place called Barnby Dun, near Doncaster, I don't know whether this place means anything to you, as you said it could have been before they moved to Bolton Cottage, many thanks for your help, Jean.
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Hi Jean, Barnby Dun is a village basically north west of Doncaster with Bessacarr being south/south east. There is a ‘The White Hart’ pub/hotel there but on the Internet it indicates permanently closed. The river Don passes by along with the river Don/Dun navigation (a sort of man made canal that attaches to the river via locks etc.) there are numerous ponds there some to do with the old power station. On the Net , anglers commenting on fishing ,one commented on Long Pond another commented on the Bull Hole ! I only know the place because one of the few bridges crossing the river Don is located there and sometimes in the late 70’s early 80’s I detoured through there to cross The Don and therefore enjoy the scenic route. Regards Dave
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Hi Dave, thank you so much for all your help, I have been researching my family history for roughly 20 years and never really thought much of the area most of my relatives lived, you have given me a new vein, to find more about where they all originated from, the world must have been a totally different place to live then with all community spirit, thank you, Jean.
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Hi Jean, this might be of interest to you. Bolton Cottage as recently for sale. The bathroom used to be in the small bedroom left hand rear and the rear extensions, garage and rooms above it didn’t exist. It was built 1925 or a little later as I’ve seen a planning application listed for a Cottage on Stoops Lane for August 1925 and nothing existed on (the original) Stoops Lane at that time.
Regards Dave
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65627943.html
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Hi Dave, in 1911 John was living in Kirkby Under Dale, his occupation was Game keeper and according to my Mother, he was employed by Lord Halifax, it is very interesting how he came into the Gravel industry and from what you told me it looks like it may have been him that had the house built, I will have to see if I can find him some time between 1911 and 1939, when his address was Bolton Cottage, many thanks again, Jean.
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Hi again Jean, I presume you have already seen/know this, I came across it by chance whilst looking up something else. St. Wilfrids Church was the closest church to Bolton Cottage.
Regards Dave.
Re: marriage look up Ellen Shaw
« Reply #4 on: Friday 21 June 13 14:02 BST (UK) »
John Bailey born 2/10/1870,St John the Baptist,Mexborough.Baptised 20/7/1870,Died 1944,buried 30/9/1944 St Wilfrid,Cantley,Doncaster aged 72.Father Thomas,labourer and mother Harriet.
Anything further will have to be obtained by applying to the above church,address = Cantley Lane,Cantley,Doncaster DN46PA....01302 535133
Malone...Cheshire & Lancashire.Boswell...Bucks and Hunts.Lister...Yorkshire and Lancashire.
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Hi Dave, can I ask where you found this Information?,only the grave is my John, but he was born in Kirkby Stephen and married Alice Popplewell, last year I contacted the vicar at St Wilfred s and he confirmed where the grave was, he was very helpful and marked the grave out for us, so when we visited several weeks later, we managed to find and take photos.
I also managed to get in touch with a lady who still lives in the area and was John's granddaughter, regards Jean.
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Hi Jean, I came across it by chance when looking up info about High Ellers, but couldn’t quite work out again how I got there, but I’ve just found another way i.e. ‘Goggle John Bailey Doncaster 1944’ and a list of RootsChat posts come up click on ‘Marriage look up Ellen Shaw’ and the last 2 entries concern what I sent you. It looks like it was sent there in error and also doesn’t add up with entries on your threads, this post has him baptised before he was born and he lost 2 years of age when he died.I’ll send a copy of the last entry here, I wish I new how to send screen shots on this system it would be clearer, one day maybe. Another way would be enter on RootsChat ‘Marriage look up Ellen Shaw’. Sender of this was KLM.
Regards Dave
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Re: marriage look up Ellen Shaw
« Reply #5 on: Friday 21 June 13 15:12 BST (UK) »
Hi KLM
Quote
John Bailey born 2/10/1870,St John the Baptist,Mexborough.Baptised 20/7/1870,Died 1944,buried 30/9/1944 St Wilfrid,Cantley,Doncaster aged 72.Father Thomas,labourer and mother Harriet.
Anything further will have to be obtained by applying to the above church,address = Cantley Lane,Cantley,Doncaster DN46PA....01302 535133
Can't see any connection to this post
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Hi All
We bought Bolton Cottage in May 2020 and its been fascinating reading about its history. We were wondering if anyone had any old photos of the cottage before the extension was built?
Funnily enough, we also use to live in Barnby Dun and my friend has just bought the White Hart.
Regards, Alex
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Hello Alex,
Re your request for photos of Bolton Cottage.
I’m slowly looking through old photos, slides, and cine films my father made when we lived in the area from 1964. I don’t imagine Bolton Cottage will feature in any, but I’ll let you know.
I do recall taking a photo of my friends in front of the cottage in late 1974, but this was along the then shale track in front of it. If I find it I’ll send you a copy.
In the mean time for interest if you google Cambridge air photos Doncaster and look at images AMH49 and AMH50, you can see what the area was like in the early 1960’s. Bolton Cottage is actually in both images, Checkstone Avenue features in the bottom right hand corner of AMH49 depending how you click on the image. If you goggle earth the area or look at a map the railway lines will give you your bearings. Bolton Cottage is approx 1/4 way up the photo RHS with a big white field to the left, a black hedge just above and a patch of overgrowth to the right and edge of image. I'll try sometime to send you better details of what else is in the images.
Regards Dave
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Hi Dave
Thank you so much for the information. I can just about make out our house on the photos. It's crazy to think that's what Bessacarr looked like in the 60's. There's been so much development within the area.
Let me know if you ever do find more photos.
Kind regards
Alex
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Hi Alex,
I haven’t as yet found any relevant photos taken by my late father, but if I do I’ll let you know.
I considered the following might be of interest to you.
Goggle ‘Britain from above’ another aerial photo site. I can’t stress enough to get the best from this site you really need to register. It’s free of charge and simple. When registered photos are clearer, pins can be seen and viewed, pins can be hidden, photos can be zoomed etc.
When registered search for ‘The Warren Golf Course, Branton’. Two photos taken in 1937 will appear EPW054475 & EPW054479. Use the Pins to find your bearings. Bolton Cottage is there, but the image is too poor in the area to show anything of it.
Note in 1937, Punches Hotel (now Toby Carvery) built 1939, Broughton Road built approx 1955, Checkstone Avenue built approx 1960 and the 2nd larger water tower in Cantley, all did not exist.
I just thought this might be of some interest to you and anyone else who might view this thread.
Regards
Dave
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Hi
My name is Paul Chambers and I have lived in Bessacarr for over 40 years. I have always been very interested in the history of Bessacarr and, following the posts regarding John Bailey, has made me even more curious. My mother and father live very close to what you called the cottage next to what is now Bolton Hill and I remember growing up around it as a child and playing on Bolton Hill and around Long Close. I was most upset when they demolished the old white building on Long Close and that of Manor Farm itself in the late 1980s; I assumed they may have had a preservation order on them. Part of my childhood!
Equally my grandparents owned, in the 1970s and 1980s, what was once called Golf View (now known as Warren Cottage) which I do believe was once built by the Lister family who owned Manor Farm. This was built at the top of Warren Lane or infamously known as 'Stringy Billy's Lane.
I have long been aware of the various farms that once existed in the area but was somewhat surprised of reading of a Holly Farm at the entrance to what is now known as the Hollows.
Does anyone have any photos or further information I have mentioned regarding the above? I would dearly like to see some as history is my degree and local history my passion.
Lastly, and I do apologise for this, but I wondering if anyone had answers to further questions below?
* Was there a rail link to the Sand and Gravel Quarry to what is now known as Bolton Hill and The Hollow next to it? If so, how long did it operate for?
* Does anyone have any information regarding the Bessacarr rail station (Bessacarr Halt at the end of Bessacarr Lane) that was operational until 1924? Was it a station? Was it for passengers?
* Does anyone know in what year Golf View (Warren Cottage) was built?
* Is anyone aware of what became of the two youths that killed the gardener in the 1960s at Long Farm?
Many thanks for taking the time to read this email and I hope to connect with you soon.
Kind regards
Paul.
* Does anyone know of what became of the youths that killed the gardener working at Long Farm?
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Hi Paul
As this RootsChat thread was originated to enquire about John Bailey I will try and keep this post to only include info that could have possibly connections to him however tenuous. If you make 2 more posts we can communicate via personal messages if you so wish and discuss anything about Bessacarr. I am not the oracle on Bessacarr and only intermittently spend any time considering anything about the area. I will write about several things in this post and try in a separate post to show images regarding them, but my limited technology and know how may scupper that. We could exchange email addresses via personal messages to make sending the images less of a problem.
As some of my images are from old maps please be aware the date of which a map is published cannot be taken to indicate an exact representation of an area on that date eg. Houses built 10 years before may not be shown and houses demolished 10 years previously may still be included.
Googling the internet I find is my best source of information.
On any of the images you view, the railway lines are the best source for finding your bearings. Just compare any image with a modern map (Google any).
As I mentioning before Cambridge Air Photos Doncaster and images AMH49 and AMH50 are very informative when intricately studied. I now know they are dated 1965-08-05. They show Bolton Cottage, Holly/Middle Farm, Long Close (House & Field), Bessacarr Lane, Carr Lane, OLD Stoops Lane, Low Ellers Farm, High Ellers/Ellers Farm, the original end of Broughton Road (no.s 65 & 44) and Stoops Road (no. 40), Doncaster Airfield (RAF Doncaster), and much more. Compare with the maps I suggest and hopefully map images I will try and send later.
The other aerial images from ‘Britain From Above’ were taken in 1937, so John Bailey was still alive then. The area of Warren Cottage is contained in them, but little can be observed there.
Google ‘Old maps of Bessacarr Doncaster’ and click on ‘ARCHI UK’ a range of maps of Bessacarr are available for viewing. I will try and send extracts with notes.
old-maps.uk used to be a good source, but access restrictions now apply. I do have some screen shots though.
In response to your post I have the following observations-
‘Long Close’ the House first featured in a map in 1947. Goggle Earth history images can be accessed and the House was previously on this, I do not have this facility, but I did take screen shots of street view whilst still available. The railway line to the Gravel Pits can be seen running through ‘Long Close Field’ in several maps. I do remember one pair of rails embedded in the road surface of Bessacarr Lane in front of Long Close Field & House when I was young and wondered at the time why they were there. As Long Close was previously just a Field , it is possible that the quarrying company purchased it to facilitate the construction of the railway and this in turn enabled the building of the ‘Long Close House’. The later development of housing in Long Close seemed to be contained exactly in the perimeter of the field, possibly indicating that the field was sold by a different owner to a different developer than the ones in the surrounding area.
Warren Cottage is included in map a dated 1950. The land registry would I presume the best place to find details about it.
Bessacarr Lane Halt. Operational 1912 to 1924. A halt is simply that, a place where trains may halt. There maybe basic platforms, but usually no buildings. When you study the maps, you will notice there was no population anywhere near there to justify a passenger stop. The Halt I imagine was either to aid the Farms or maybe the Gravel Pits.
I know little about the murder of the gardener. The only other knowledge I have is the youths were caught at the A1M Warmsworth Interchange. Most of my limited knowledge oddly came from meeting a Doncaster Police Officer in Surrey in 1989. The gardener used to have an occasional drink with a dignified gentleman Mr Taylor of Broughton Road ( d. 1983 age 83) at Punch’s Hotel.
A few snippets now that could have had a chance of involving or viewed by John Bailey or members of his family Alice, John Frederick, Agnes etc.
At the top of Bolton Hill Playing Field near the Bawtry Road Bus Stop are 2 large limestone gate posts. They must have been there when it was just a field and may have been there centuries. Imagine the effort in transporting and erecting them there? Why?
At the THEN end of Broughton Road from approx the mid 50’s onwards there was a large house, that owned all the land in Nutwell Close and the land occupied by 67, 69,and 71 Broughton Rd all used as a paddock for horses. Ignore the gate posts and curved end, the low wall opposite 46 and 48 was the front boundary wall for that property and has been there approx 70 years and could have been often viewed by Alice, John Frederick and Agnes etc. The House was demolished approx 2005 and replaced by 3 pairs of semi detached houses.
More to follow as this post almost too large.
Regards Dave
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Hi again Paul
Continuation of previous Post
When facing Bolton Cottage the land occupied by 87, 89 and 91 used to be the Cottage’s garden and midway along the frontage of the garden was a stepped back large imposing ornate wooden double drive gateway (the step back even features on some maps). Beyond this gateway there was nothing, what could have been the intended vision or purpose of this gateway. Note when Bolton Cottage was built in 1925 none of Bessacarr as we know it existed and these gates opened onto a Lane that led nowhere with no buildings on it or anywhere near it.
RAF Doncaster occupied Doncaster Airfield until 1956. The buildings were situated either side of the Bridge over the railway line to Ellers High School/Hall Cross Academy.
It was not a front line station. Jimmy Edwards the comic writer and actor was stationed there and as Punch’s Hotel was the sole establishment in the area at that time, just maybe Jimmy and other RAF personnel could have visited Punch’s and possibly met John Bailey or members of his family. On the night of 9th May 1941 two people died when 1 or 2 bombs were dropped on Ellers Avenue. John Bailey would surely have known of this.
On the 20th Feb 1963 the Beatles performed at St. James Baths and stayed the night at Punches Hotel. Again just maybe they met even by chance for a moment John Frederick, Agnes or even Mr Taylor and the Gardener. Just possibly.
It maybe some time before I attempt to send the images.
Regards
Dave
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Good morning
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I find this all very fascinating and would certainly like to know more!
John Bailey, and others you mentioned, certainly seemed very interesting people.
I will try to access the websites you have included but I must admit that technology is not exactly my forte.
Please keep in touch as I would like to know anything else you are aware of.
Many thanks, once again.
Paul.
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Hi Paul
I’ve tried to send an image, but I can’t manage it, due to lack of equipment and knowledge. Therefore if you reply to this post I can contact you through ‘personal messages’ and I could email it to you direct. It is one of the 1965 aerial photos with my location pointers added.
Regards Dave