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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: firetail on Saturday 04 May 13 01:44 BST (UK)
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Hi, Can you advise: Regards: firetail
I am trying to understand why my GGG grandfather Edward Clements who was transported to NSW in1818 on the ship Malabar,(from Middlesex Gail Ref: t18181028-154) to Sydney. He married Sarah Fitzpatrick at Parramatta in 1828 , & one of their children William Clements on his bapt. cert. , was my mothers grandfather.
Edward Clements was buried at Waverley cemetery in1897 , with his wife Sarah. His death certificate notes his name as William Clements ,born 1799 (being 19 years old when arriving in syd. in1819.
There was a William Clements convicted 1818 also ,and shipped out to nsw on the Baring ,arrival date 30th july , 1819 (Berks quarter sessions) for theft,sentence 7 years, similar to above
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I am a tad confused at the moment, as I don't quite understand your question....
But here's a link to the 1828 marriage details (St Johns, C of E, Parramatta)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCY-SV7
If you are in Sydney NSW, you could visit the NSW State Library in Macquarie St, and sight the image of the parish register.... Likely you would notice that the clergy noted the ages for the bride and groom in the white space to the left of where they signed or made their mark. The document would also have the witnesses details... Perhaps that may help you further.
Cheers, JM
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The Edward CLEMENTS ex the Malabar of 1819 ….. his Certificate of Freedom issued 26 Oct 1825.
The William CLEMENTS, ex the Baring of 1819 ….. his CofF issued 21 July 1825.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65
So there’s at least two men, surnamed Clements who were transported to NSW under sentence of a Court, in 1819.
PS, there's plenty of baptisms noted at NSW BDM for 1829 for males with first name of William ;D It was a popular name back then :)
Cheers, JM
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Possibly your fellas court appearance
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18181028-154-defend1064&div=t18181028-154#highlight
And maybe a previous court appearance ??
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18180401-171-defend1233&div=t18180401-171#highlight
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His death certificate notes his name as William Clements ,born 1799
Do you definitely have the right death cert?
And who was the informant on the death cert?
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Edward Clements was buried at Waverley cemetery in1897 , with his wife Sarah. His death certificate notes his name as William Clements ,born 1799 (being 19 years old when arriving in syd. in1819.
May I add to giblet's questions please...
What is the NSW BDM reference no for that death cert?
I cannot find either Edward or William CLEMENTS death registration listed in 1897 on the online index http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
How is the surname recorded on that 1897 dc?
Cheers, JM
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He was still Edward in 1848
" against one Edward Clements, and Sarah Clements, his wife. "
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59764148?searchTerm=%22sarah%20Clements%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=+sarah+Clements
A bit of trivia now ;D Sarah must have been a tiny woman. Love it when you can get a bit of a picture of them. Its in the same article on the above link.
The charge against.Sarah Clements, a tiny specimen of tho matron tribe, whom Captain^ Innes emphatically declared he could put in his pocket, was also dismissed-the etc etc
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“A man named William Edward Clements, aged 79, died in the Infirmary this morning from the effects of injuries received by being runover by a cab”
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18924550 Maitland Mercury 15 May 1879.
The funeral announcement shows the burial was at Waverley Cemetery
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13434657 SMH 15 May 1879, and funeral moved from William Edward Clements residence at Albion St (off Dowling St) SURRY HILLS….
NSW BDM index for 1879 (transposing firetails’s date a tad) has
William E CLEMENTS aged 78 years, died Sydney #894/1879
The City of Sydney Assessment Books may well have further information about that household ….
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives/whats-in-the-archives/assessment-books
Cheers, JM
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Sands Sydney Alpha directory 1877
Edward CLEMENTS, Albion St, PADDINGTON
Cheers, JM
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NSW electoral roll 1878 for PADDINGTON (covers parts of Redfern, Waterloo, Woollahra, Paddington, Moore Park, Darling Point, Rushcutter’s Bay, Edgecliff, Double Bay)
Edward CLEMENTS, Albion St, PADDINGTON, qualified as a householder
NO others with that surname on that roll.
Cheers, JM
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Deaths for Edward Clements in NSW from 1830 to 1900. Since it appears he was on the nsw E/R in 1877 that would rule out the 1873 deaths. So that leaves the 1890 death but who knows ::) There could be other deaths with surname spelt wrongly etc.
3248/1890 CLEMENTS EDWARD J CHARLES E LOUISA BOURKE
4098/1873 CLEMENTS EDWARD WILLIAM FRANCES FORBES
4103/1873 CLEMENTS EDWARD WILLIAM ELIZABETH FORBES
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Another thread concerning Sarah
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=604255.0
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Edward Clements was buried at Waverley cemetery in1897 , with his wife Sarah. His death certificate notes his name as William Clements ,born 1799 (being 19 years old when arriving in syd. in1819.
I think firetail has already established that Edward and Sarah are buried together at Waverley, but the problem is that his death was registered as 'William' in 1879 (1897 was possibly a typo in the initial post.)
I am assuming that the death cert. correctly names his wife and children.
Debra :)
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NSW Coroner’s Inquest 14 May 1879
William Edward CLEMENTS about 78 years died 13 May 1879 same day as knocked down by a cab (in Sydney).
:) JM
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Edward's ages:
Conviction (1818) 19
Convict Indent (1819) 21
Application to marry (1828) 28
1828 census (1828) 30
He said he was a native of High Wycombe which is in Buckinghamshire and was also known as Chipping/Chepping Wycomb(e). Apparently the baptism registers for the parish are indexed on FamilySearch up to 1813, but I do not see him there.
Debra :)
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Hi, its me firetail ;D
I would like to thank every one that has posted their reply to my enquiry,as they will help both my self & my distant cousin , also a descendant of Edward & Sarah . through another of their children
We do have death certificates for both Sarah & Edward , and the problem was the country of birth was listed as England For Edward & no reference to mother or father or his children , as the D/Cert. for Sarah, only having Ireland & some a daughter noted.
The next shot would be to try & find out Their Parents names & any associated family links in Dublin Ireland , England For Edward , and any further Australian connections (two of their children, The links are known to date.
Sorry I was a Bit vague on some of the details , But Thanks. :D
Yours sincerely : Regards Firetail
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May I please ask couple of questions....
a) was it 1879 and not 1897
b) was the informant on Edward's d.c. a family member or the hospital?
I have found that often when there has been an Inquest, that the hospital supplies the information to register the death. This means the info has been passed through several hands before it reaches the pro forma paperwork even. So, it is entirely possible that IF I have found the "right" chap, that the hospital's notes orginally showed that they obtained the information from William for his father, Edward CLEMENTS. Thus ending up with the registration for a William Edward CLEMENTS on the d.c. and on the inquest records.
Cheers, JM
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Hi : everyone its firetail back
I would like to apologise to ,majm , giblet , Dundee
Yes , the date of death for William Edward Clements was 15/5/1879 in lieu of my error
The death certificate reference is 1879/000894 & noted with above name listed
Sarah & Edward had six children , Jane b 1829 ,William H b1830 , William b1839 & died18/11/1884 , Joseph b 1841 , Helen b 1843 ,Elizabeth Ann b 13/8/1849 & died1931 in Sydney. due to the long hand writing on the d/cert ,its hard to read but believe both certs. for Ed & Sarah have a ref to Elizabeth.
Regards :Firetail