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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: robgen1 on Monday 22 April 13 10:45 BST (UK)
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Hello All
i am doing research on the following Doyle Family, but have hit the usual brick walls
due to large number of Doyle's and also sketchy death records and lack of spouse maiden
details etc
Some details are available ie parents and when all arrived into the Colonies
and some families have been traced as listed below via Qld Archives/WA BDM/NSW BDM and
NLA / Trove digitised family notices etc
James Doyle
B: 1796 County Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1878 Sydney, Colony of New South Wales
Margaret (not known)
B: 1804 County Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1866 Sydney, Colony of New South Wales
arrived to Colony of Queensland 1852 aboard The Argyle and The Maria Soames
James and Margaret had 9 Children as far as i can establish so far arrived on
the above vessel's
William married Elizabeth (not known)
B: 1825 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1910 Kempsey, New South Wales, Australia
James married Elanor (not known)
B: 1830 Wicklow Ireland
D: Not Known
Denis / Dennis married Mary (not known)
B: 1831 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1872 Possibly Sydney New South Wales, Australia
Margaret married Thomas Casey
B: 1832 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1907 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Anne (not known)
B: 1833 Wicklow, Ireland
D: Not Known
Elanor (not known) + (maybe also Ellen)
B: 1835 Wicklow, Ireland
D: Not Known
Elizabeth (not known)
B: 1836 Wicklow, Ireland
D: Not Known
Julia married Henry Albert (a.k.a. = Allbutt)
B: 1836 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1869 Freemantle, Colony of Western Australia
Lucy married Joseph Spruson
B: 1845 Wicklow,Ireland
D: 1904 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
One arrived to the Colonies on the Garland some year or
so earlier
Matthew married Elizabeth O'Neill
B: 1823 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1904 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Any assistance or information would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Greg can you please outline information you are looking with your family please.
Record from Wicklow not Oz?
Tks
Tinam
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Hi Tina M
I was wondering, if anyone had been researching same family, there are loads of blanks ie
example the details i do know are
James married Elanor (not known)
B: 1830 Wicklow Ireland
D: Not Known
I have said details of James, born 1830, but not much else
1. James death details missing
2. Elanor Maiden name missing
3. Elanor death details missing
4. Did they have any offspring
often within records i have searched some have used say Ellen instead of Elanor and this usually is only known within family line directly. ie Kathleen may be known as Kath or Kitty or Kathy
I sometimes look at a post and recognise a name and a date and say, yes i have some info on that one
for example for WA part of family i did
Julia married Henry Albert (a.k.a. = Allbutt)
B: 1836 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1869 Freemantle, Colony of Western Australia
I checked WA BDM and
found Marriage of Julia Doyle to Henry Albert (Allbutt)
found children for Julia and Henry
found Death of Julia
found Death of Henry
Checked Trove for WA Papers a found information of Freemantle and Perth etc
I hope it sort of makes sense
Cheers
Greg
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Greg have you purchased any certificates?
Cheers :)
Cando
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Hi Cando,
no, that being said, all information has been verified against events already known ie
Arrival to Australia.
the problem is most of the marriages took place in Ireland for mentioned people, not always easiest place to get records prior to mid 1800's unless you go to parish records
If i dont have a death date, then is rather hard to order a certificate for a particular person Death date / year "Not Known"
James married Elanor (not known)
B: 1830 Wicklow Ireland
D: Not Known
I did check all the Online records NSW / WA / VIC / QLD as you can imagine James Doyle is a really common name so you can imagine big dollars $$ just on one person for numerous certificates
is more a lucky dip, sort of thing Doyle is a common name so chances are it may have already been
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Cando
last bit should read
is more a lucky dip, sort of thing Doyle is a common name so chances are it may have already been
investigated and already be known by someone else
sorry last bit did not appear
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Tina M
No the information i am after is all from Australia only as far as i am aware
so only Oz not County Wicklow
Doyle being common Irish name, i wanted to narrow it down as i know that all originated from County Wicklow
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Greg sad death of Julia 1837 to 1869 in Fremantle.
There's also a birth of Julia Emma Albert 1878 Fremantle father Hy mother Sarah Cook. Baby may have died.
Did Hy remarry after Julia's death?
Couldn't find a record for Julia's death in 1869 at Fremantle Cem.
Tinam
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Hi Greg,
I think this might be of some help..
Mr and Mrs Frank McCarthy, Mrs T McCarthy, Mrs Wesslink are mentioned in Margaret's death notice as her sisters.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14839905?searchTerm=%22margaret%20casey%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=margaret+casey
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Hi Tina M
most of the WA part of family had hard time of life lots of children died within a few months to a year or so in a few generations i have been able to trace
son was named Henry William Albert who was married to Sarah Cook - 1878
one of Henry Albert snr's and Julia,s daughters also died rather young only around 28 years old
Some of the WA articles on family from trove show they all had a pretty hard life
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Giblet
thank you for that, i will check immediately
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Giblet
thank you for that, i will check immediately
Cheers
Greg
Your welcome. Hope something can be found in them names.
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I'm having terrible internet problems today and living in an remote area using wireless broadband makes it difficult when the whole network keeps 'outing'. Just did a long post and have lost the lot >:( >:(.
The reason I asked is you have for example
Margaret (not known)
B: 1804 County Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1866 Sydney, Colony of New South Wales
This death registration shows parents given names however her funeral notice states she is the wife of Mr C James DOYLE. This death certificate would give you valuable information eg it should show if any of the issue of the marriage were deceased however if it your Margaret UNKNOWN, wife of James DOYLE, your ancestor.
I always think it is a good idea to validate your research with certificates where possible.
Have you considered that James may have married an Ellen Ann
714/1857
DOYLE James
LOWE Ellen Anne
District Sydney
William married Elizabeth (not known)
B: 1825 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1910 Kempsey, New South Wales, Australia
This death certificate would detail the name of his wife and when they married. I can't see a William DOYLE in the Kempsey district on the 1903 NSW electoral roll however not everyone enrolled to vote.
In NSW you can purchase transcriptions of certificates including just blocks of information....
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Giblet
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14839905?searchTerm=%22margaret%20casey%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=margaret+casey
checked its for Margaret wife of William Casey
not Margaret wife of Thomas who i am after
both of which died in 1907
but worth the check even to just discount it as not the one i am after
Cheers
Greg
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Just found a number of online trees and couldn't see any certs and sadly people tend to copy from one another and not do the research themselves.
I would be purchasing a transcription of this cert to find out more about Margaret and to find if any of her children had pre-deceased her. Issue of the marriage both living and deceased should be listed.
244/1866
DOYLE Margaret
Father William Mother Margaret
District Sydney
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Yes being in a remote area with wireless is a nightmare to say least at best of times. as one can imagine and losing post is rotten anytime. I used to work as technician with remote wireless so i do know the pain with it.
Granted finding issue from death cert is valuable, not arguments from me on that one. Is more that i cant fine anything on them once they are here, ie no death certs online for the named children
or marriage certs so cant work backwards as such
James
B: 1830 Wicklow Ireland
D: Not Known
Denis / Dennis
B: 1831 Wicklow, Ireland
D: 1872 Possibly Sydney New South Wales, Australia
1544/1872 DOYLE DENIS AGE 45 YEARS DIED SYDNEY SYDNEY
no parents listed online record just age and death registered in sydney
Anne (not known)
B: 1833 Wicklow, Ireland
D: Not Known
Elanor (not known) + (maybe also Ellen)
B: 1835 Wicklow, Ireland
D: Not Known
Elizabeth (not known)
B: 1836 Wicklow, Ireland
D: Not Known
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Cando,
I most likely will have to buy the block detail then, to validate further as you suggest in this instance
There are loads of Doyle trees online. I checked against the Qld Immigration records for the Argyle
1852 it lists the following
Doyle James age 48 Occupation Miner County of Origin Wicklow
Doyle Margaret age 48 Occupation Nil County of Origin Dublin
Doyle Denis age 21 Occupation Miner County of Origin Wicklow
Doyle Elanor age 17 Occupation Domestic County of Origin Wicklow
Doyle Elizabeth age 16 Occupation Domestic County of Origin Wicklow
------------------------
Doyle William age 27 Occupation Miner County of Origin Wicklow
Doyle Elizabeth age 26 Occupation Nil County of Origin Wicklow
-------------------------------
Doyle James age 22 Occupation Miner County of Origin Wicklow
Doyle Elanor age 26 Occupation Nil County of Origin Wicklow
------------------------------
Doyle Julia age 13 Occupation Nil County of Origin Wicklow
Doyle Lucy age 11 Occupation Nil County of Origin Wicklow
So both James and William were already married when they arrived as evidenced above
You are correct many just copy trees without checking so i can at least evidence that they arrived into the Colony of Queensland but not a lot afterwards
Cheers
Greg
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Nearly as bad as researching the SMITH's :P
Doyle William age 27 Occupation Miner County of Origin Wicklow
Doyle Elizabeth age 26 Occupation Nil County of Origin Wicklow
Well this cert should solve one of your problems :) AND it will have his place of burial and Elizabeth may be buried at the same location. Let's hope so.
We have some terrific researchers on this board....let's hope some of them can help.
Greg are you in contact with any other DOYLE researchers? Some people do not put all the info online and I don't blame them with all the copy and pasting that goes on.
Past my bedtime
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
I have been in contact with a couple of Doyle researchers, distant cousins actually i usually check all information regardless of where it came from, myself just to make sure it can be evidenced and validated.
Yep is almost as bad as SMITH
I know there are some very good people on this site hence me asking, have always had some good leads from here in any case.
Thank you and have a nice evening
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Greg
I believe I found your Doyles living in Avoca parish, County Wicklow before emigrating to Australia. If you go to www.rootsireland.ie and choose Wicklow and put in the parents' names James and Margaret, you will find the baptism of Julia in 1838 and Lucy in 1840. This is a pay per view site so I could only get them on the index. Also I found a baptism for a Mathew Doyle (parents James and Margaret) in 1822 but not the others (not sure if all baptisms are online on this site).
Dennis Doyle married Mary in 1844, James Doyle married Elenor in 1851 and Mathew Doyle married Elizabeth ONeill in 1846. Note spelling (i.e. no apostrophes between O and N in O'Neill). This website doesn't acknowledge apostrophes in spellings. Also, the spellings of the christian names would be how the priest spelt them. Elenor (a very common irish name) was spelt Eleanor, Ellenor, Elanor and Ellen.
It could be quite expensive to order these baptisms and marriages but I am going to the National Library in Dublin tonight so I could have a look for you to get the marriage and baptismal records and, therefore, Mary, Elenor and Margaret (James' wife)'s surnames. I am hoping that Margaret's surname will appear on the baptisms - not every priest gave the maiden name of the mother, unfortunately and I have never researched Avoca parish before, so don't know what you will get! James and Margaret's marriage is not showing up on the Avoca parish online records but I can have a look for you on the microfilm, if I have time - I only get to spend a few hours in the National Library once a week.
Kind regards
Deirdre
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Had another look and found more children for James and Margaret (that ties in with your list)
1822 Mathew
1826 Margaret
1828 James
1832 Ann
1834 Ellen
1835 Eliza
1838 Julia
1840 Lucy
Can't find Denis or William online but they may have been missing from the records due to clerical error (happened all the time in Ireland, I am afraid!) or just missing from the online records. I will have a look for them in 1824 and 1830. Hopefully will have some more news for you tomorrow.
Regards
Deirdre
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Hello Deirdre,
thank you so much, for the information. Unfortunately Ireland is a mystery for me thus far doing family research, so i didnt really know what is available so far.
I knew as with all other posts on here i would get excellent leads and help
once again thank you so much, i will be joining the site you mentioned this morning
regards
Greg
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Hi Greg
Here is what I found in the Avoca Roman Catholic parish records (on microfilm).
Baptisms :
30 Aug 1826 Margaret, daughter of James Doyle and Margaret McDonnell. Sponsors : Wm. Mills, Mary Given (?)
15 May 1828 James, son of James and Margaret Doyle. Sponsors : Wm. Kelly, Mary French
29 Aug 1832 Ann, daughter of James and Margt. Doyle. Sponsors : Margt. Mills, Bryan Burke
25 Mar 1834 Ellen, daughter of James and Margaret Doyle. Sponsors : James Larnstead(?), Cathne Clarke
6 Aug 1835 Eliza, daughter of James and Margaret Doyle. Sponsors : Thomas French, Sally Doyle
5 Jun 1838 Julia, daughter of James and Margaret Doyle. Sponsors : Anne Kelly
10 Aug 1840 Lucy, daughter of James and Margaret Doyle. Sponsors : Cornelius and Ann Farrell
Marriages :
20 Apr 1844 Denis Doyle to Mary Doyle. Witnesses : James Conway, Ellen Brown
2 Feb 1846 Mathew Doyle to Elizabeth Neill. Witnesses : John Neill, Eliza Fitzsimmons
2 Feb 1846 John Doran to Catherine Neill. Witnesses : John Neill, Eliza Fitzsimmons (looks like Elizabeth's sister)
10 Nov 1851 James Doyle to Elenor Kavanagh. Witnesses : Henry Anderson, Catherine Byrne
Baptisms :
7 Oct 1846 Margaret, daughter of Mathew Doyle and Elizabeth Neil. Sponsors : James Neil, Margaret Doyle
2 Feb 1849 Mary, daughter of Mathew and Elizabeth Doyle. Sponsors : Dennis and Ann Doyle
17 Apr 1850 Bridget, daughter of Mathew and Elizabeth Doyle. Sponsors : William Tierney, Margret Lennon
25 May 1851 Mathew, son of Mathew and Elizabeth Doyle. Sponsors : Myles Byrne, Lucy Neill
18 Sep 1845 Thomas, son of Dennis Doyle and Mary Doyle. Sponsors : Owen Sheridan, Margaret Doyle
17 May 1848 Michael, son of Dennis and Mary Doyle. Sponsors : Patrick McCann, Elinor Browne
I have put a question mark in brackets of I couldn't read the writing.
Unfortunately there was no sign of Dennis or William's baptism and they are probably just missing from the actual register. As I said before, this was all too common in Irish records unfortunately.
The priest may have lost the scrap of paper he had written the names on or he just forgot to record the entry. These registers are covered by two microfilms and I ran out of time before I could look at Mathew's baptismal entry. I will do that next week, if you like. I cannot find a marriage for James Doyle and Margaret McDonnell online but I will have a look at the marriage records in the other microfilm as well, just in case those years were not recorded online. You were extremely fortunate that the priest who recorded Margaret's baptism, actually put down Margaret's maiden name, as you can see, they didn't bother most of the time!
RC parish marriage records do not give names of parents of the bride and groom and unfortunately this parish also did not record the address of the parents with baptised children or the married couple. The surname Doyle was very common in that parish and there was another James Doyle (married to a Mary) who had children baptised around the same time as James and Margaret, so it may be hard to pinpoint where in Avoca parish, James and Margaret actually lived.
The surname Neill was interchangeable with O'Neill but in those days, the British frowned on 'Irish' surnames and the O and Mc were usually taken off surnames in records, only to be added on in the late 1800s when the Brits relaxed their rules, so lots of Neills, Sullivans, Rourkes, etc., became O'Neill, O'Sullivan and O'Rourke in the records then. The people would have been known locally by their real name but just recorded in the 'English' way!
I hope this helps.
Regards
Deirdre
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Hello Deirdre
Thank you so very much, you have been wonderful for looking up this information.
It is greatly appreciated has made my evening.
I at least have some more to work on
once again thank you very much
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Greg
You are very welcome.
I was struck by the fact that there were no McDonnells as sponsors / witnesses as people usually used their siblings, cousins and next door neighbours/friends for those roles. It is possible that Margaret came from Co. Dublin as you suggested in an earlier posting and as the bride always married in her native parish, then you might have some difficult in finding her marriage. There were also very few Doyles as sponsors, Sally (Sarah) being the exception, which I also thought strange maybe James was an only child or else some of the women sponsors were married sisters.
I will keep looking and if I can find anything else, I will let you know.
Kind regards
Deirdre
P.S. the Vale of Avoca in Wicklow is a beautiful area - a real tourist spot!
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Hello Deirdre
Thank you that would be fantastic, if you see anything else.
From what i know James Doyle born circa 1976 and his parents are reported as Father: Matthew Doyle and Mother: Agnes
Being so far away from the records just compounds the problems of doing the research.
I was in Ireland some 25 years ago, sadly i never visited County Wicklow so maybe one day i will visit Ireland again and take a look for myself.
So is Vale of Avoca a valley near the sea by any chance? We have in Sydney Australia a beach called Avoca Beach north of the city itself.
Cheers
Greg
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If you have looked at the website I sent you then you will see that there is no baptism for a James Doyle to Mathew and Agnes Doyle online, which is unfortunate. These early parish records can be very patchy and many baptisms are missing.
The Vale of Avoca is inland but the river Avoca does flow into the sea. Here are some websites that might help you :
http://grandtour.ie/driving-routes/vale-of-avoca/
http://www.dublindiocese.ie/guidebook/parish/12
http://www.gallda.com/avoca.html
To make it more complicated, the Doyles lived in the Roman Catholic parish of Avoca but the civil parish of Castlemacadam. However civil records didn't start in Ireland until 1864, so that is too late for you. Just thought I would let you know, in case you come across the name of Castlemacadam in relation to Avoca.
Regards
Deirdre
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Hi Deirdre,
I did sign up on the website just have not had chance to start researching.
The Vale of Avoca looks beautiful place indeed, could easily retire to one of those little villages listed in Wicklow area
Seems that many of the records are sort of scattered in numerous places over there in Ireland, parish records, civil record and national records, fortunately you have assisted greatly with helping me understand the system. You have helped in the search so thank you once again.
Cheers
Greg
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I've just gone back through your postings and see that your Dennis wasn't married before he emigrated so you can forget the marriage I found for a Denis and Mary Doyle - if he was born in 1830, it definitely wouldn't be him :)
I will see if I can find a marriage for William and Elizabeth.
Deirdre
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Completed
thanks to all those that replied
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Hi,
I am new to this site. I am researching the family of Margaret Casey nee Doyle (1832-1907) from Wicklow, parents: James and Margaret Doyle, who married Thomas Casey on 05 Nov 1851 in Bathurst, NSW. I have information on some their children.
I believe that Margaret Casey nee Doyle might have been the daughter of James Doyle and Margaret McDonnell (I know that her father was James Doyle and her mother was Margaret unknown surname), but am lacking that final piece of evidence which would prove the link. I think that Margaret Casey nee Doyle came to Australia with her sister Ann on the same ship as her possible brother, Mathew Doyle and his family.
I have the death certificates of Margaret Doyle nee McDonnell (1798-1866) and James Doyle (1796-1878), but frustratingly neither certificate names the eight children living at the time of their deaths.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Hello Elle Cee
You are correct Margaret Doyle was indeed daughter of James Doyle and Margaret McDonnell as are the following children listed below all as far as i can establish are from Rathdrum Co.Wicklow Ireland
Doyle Denis
Doyle Elanor
Doyle Elizabeth
Doyle William
Doyle James
Doyle Julia
Doyle Lucy
Doyle Ann/e not 100% sure may be with or without (e)
Till now i have been able to establish marriages of and confirmed the details
Elizabeth, Lucy, and the Margaret you mention.
I am still trying to establish the details of the marriages of
Ann/e, Denis, William, Elanor, James however Doyle is such a common name getting the right one is what takes time. Julia apparently went to WA but i cant find evidence of it as yet although i think it is one in the same person
The Doyles arrived on the Argyle into the Port of Brisbane 28th July 1852
Correct Matthew is also Brother arrived a year or so earlier than his parents and siblings
I dont believe at the time of the death of Maragret, all of the children were in the Colony of NSW so perhaps James, did not know if all children were alive or deceased either.
In all honesty i only have been working on this part of the family for about a month so I know i have not all the details myself as yet
Cheers
Greg
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Hi Greg,
Thanks for the list of James and Margaret Doyle's children. I noticed that you had found the two Margaret Caseys who died in 1907. They were mother in law and daughter in law. Margaret Theresa Casey nee McCarthy (1862-1907) was the second wife of William Casey (1852-1917), the eldest son of Thomas Casey (abt 1820-1879) and Margaret nee Doyle (abt 1826-1907). Margaret Casey nee McCarthy died on 27th May 1907 and her mother in law, Margaret Casey nee Doyle, died on 7th June 1907.
Margaret Casey nee Doyle's father, James Doyle is listed as a Gas Company Employee on her 1907 death certificate. Unfortunately, the James Doyle (1796-1878), husband of Margaret nee McDonnell (1798-1866) is listed only as a 'Gentleman' on his death certificate, aged 82.
Do you subscribe to Ancestry? I have put a lot of this information on my family trees there.
Cheers,
Laura
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Hi to the Doyle researchers I have a family connection when my great grandmother Margaret Elizabeth Doyle married George Seabrook,
Her parent were James Doyle 1830 Margaret Mc Donnell abt 1830, the family from Wicklow Ireland.
This forum mentions that the ship Argyle went to Brisbane and has assumed the Family went there, but I believe they departed the Argyle in Sydney and the family moved to the Newcastle area in NSW.
Have noticed a lot of incorrect information on Ancestry and would like to connect with family
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Sorry all the wife of James Doyle 1830 should read Elanor (Ellen) Cavanagh abt. 1830
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Hi iano.01
I'm pretty sure the Duke of Argyll went down in Moreton Bay after the storm in which your gggrandfather performed an heroic deed to save lives. The family then continued to Sydney on the Maria Soames. I'm trying to locate where I first saw this information. I descend from James' older brother, Matthew Doyle and Elizabeth O'Neill.