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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: kristof on Monday 22 April 13 06:44 BST (UK)
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I was wondering if anyone might be able to do a birth/death lookup for me? I'm in australia so I can't get to Dublin to do it myself :)
The gentleman in question is:
Francis (Frank) Moss
Born: 1868 - 1871
Place: Garrisontown, Co. Dublin
Died: c.1925
Place: Dublin
The details for his death are somewhat 'speculative' and may not be correct. I would be very interested to know what he died of.
I anyone can assist I would be really grateful :)
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This looks like him, Francis Moss (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5QQ-Q84), in 1870
Civil Reference Dunshaughlin 1870 Volume 12 Page 796
There are several other births to George MOSS and Julia McKEOWN in the 1860s and 1870s
and reference to their baptisms in Duleek RC Church in 1881
Possible death (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FTJS-GTR)in Dublin South in 1925
There are several references to him on-line including some prison records
They give his next of kin in 1903 as wife Ellen, whereabouts unknown
and his son William in 1914, he is stated as living in Co. Westmeath
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Thanks for that. :)
That's about as far as i got as well (though where did you find about the son?). I was really hoping to find out if that really is him who dies in 1925 and also what he died from.
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If you purchase the death certificate from the General Register Office you can confirm or rule out if this is correct
Do you have his marriage and census details?
As this seems to be Francis MOSS marrying a Mary Ellen GLEESON in 1899 in St. Paul’s Arran Quay, Dublin;
Civil Reference Dublin North Apr-Jun 1899 Volume 2 Page 503
Obtaining a copy of this record would also confirm/deny that this is the correct Francis
Francis seems to have been living at 54 Lwr Wellington Street according to Prison Records in 1899
His address in 1921 was 207 Phibsboro Road
Francis and Mary Ellen MOSS (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Howth/Howth/1270785/) on 1901 census in Howth are possibly them
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I'd certainly like to order the death certificate, but I didn't think that I could order them online and receive them online? If that's not the case, point me in the right direction and stand aside!! :)
My concern is that there appears to be two Frank Moss'. The one I'm chasing was born in Garristown, Co. Dublin. In the 1911 Census he is in Swords, Co. Dublin. He is still in Swords in 1913 & 14. The village of Swords is quite close to Garristown. In the 1901 census I think that he is in Howth as the age fits - in 1901 he is 30; in the 1911 census he is 42; the prison records give his age as 43 in 1914 so there is some degree of error in there somewhere but all within a reasonable range I think.
The Francis Moss from Phibsboro Road, Aran Quay, I think is too young to be the right Frank Moss; in the 1901 Census there is a 17 years old Francis Moss living at Phibsboro Road, Aran Quay. So I think we can rule him out, which means the 1921 prison reference is to the same person.
I don’t think that there are any other sources I can use to trace his whereabouts after 1914? He doesn’t appear on any of the voting lists that I can find?
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You can apply for death certificates from 1924 on-line
For older references you must either post or fax your application!
Link to GRO for details (http://www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm)
The reference to the son was as his next of kin on a prison record in Mountjoy 1914
Frank Moss, aged 46, 5'6", Brown Hair, Brown eyes, sallow skin, born Garristown Co. Meath, Address Swords, Next of kin Son William Co. Westmeath
There may be two Francis Moss at that same time but this seems to be definitely the man you are looking for
The 1921 reference is a father to a Henry which if it doesn't tie in with family history is probably the other man you have come across - why confirming is so important!
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Ok, I'm doing definitely somethin' wrong...? I looked at the prison record online as well but didn't see those details about description and son? Where did you find them?
Thanks for the link to the online application, will get on to that now.
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Ok, I'm doing definitely somethin' wrong...? I looked at the prison record online as well but didn't see those details about description and son? Where did you find them?
I searched on www.findmypast.ie (also on www.findmypast.co.uk); they are subscription or pay-as-you-go sites; they have images of the actual record books
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Thanks for that, much appreciated. Looks like a subscription is better value? Might have to cancel my Ancestry one and take up this one.
I've requested the prison records from National Archives of Ireland so i'll see how that goes - they're yet to get back to me with the cost involved.
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So, I've run into a bit of a brick wall. I can account for Frank until 1914, but the next record is his death in 1925. Can anyone think of any records that might be able to fill in the intervening years and tell me what he was doing or where he was? He doesn't appear in any of the 1916 related sources, witness statements, military archives, can't seem to locate him in WW1 service records, (though given what i can tell of his politics it's unlikely he would have enlisted in the British army unless he was very hard up for money, and that's very possible), there are no births or marriages associated with him for that time period that i can find. Any one have any suggestions?
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At the break out of WW1 the thoughts of republicans were confused by the thoughts of achieving Home Rule which was almost finalised. Many men, especially in Dublin following the lock-out, saw the army as a wage and means to achieving Home Rule; it was definitely not seen as an event going to take four years. They were fighting for the "little countries" of Belgium, etc. including ourselves.
When the war dragged on and Home Rule was not forth coming, 1916 and more radical republicanism began to appear. It was seen that the war was being used as an excuse for not granting Home Rule at the time.
My OH's grandfather was a staunch republican with a scantily documented history in War of Independence and Civil War; but we have his pension application and some other documents about him.
However, he served with the British Army throughout WW1 as he joined because of what was called "Redmond's Call", he joined in late 1914, at the very beginning of the war, believing that it "would be over by Christmas" as many others did. He travelled with the army through Europe and the Middle East for the full duration, returning to Dublin in late 1918.
Only his medal card survives in the British records as many records were destroyed.
I would not rule out that you Frank was not in the army for a period
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Hi,
I've just come across this. Frank Moss was an agricultural labourer who seems to have moved around the farmland districts of Meath/North Dublin during the harvesting seasons. By 1913 he was an organizer for the Irish Transport and General Workers Union and played a pivotal role in the farmworker's end of what is known as The Great Lockout of 1913.( It's the centenary so there's loads of stuff on this on-line. A bit too complex to go into here.) Secret Royal Irish Constabulary reports identified Moss as the chief instigator of trouble among North County Dublin Farmhands and he was targeted by them in order to restore peace. Moss was charged with intimidation at Swords Assize on 24th October 1913 and sentenced to 4 months hard labour. He immediately went on Hunger Strike and efforts to force feed him lead to massive protests and marches. On release he started to organize in others areas such as Finglas and shared platforms with both James Larkin and James Connolly among others. He also founded the Swords Company of the Irish Citizen Army in 1914 in which he served as Treasurer. During the reorganization of the ICA by James Connolly he was elected to the Army Council. As the Agricultural Strike collapsed Swords was still being identified by the RIC as militant and active and continued to have extra police drafted into the town to protect "Free" or Blackleg labour imported by the local landowners. At a guess I would say that Moss' health was broken by his prison terms in 1914 and after. It was fairly common as the treatment and conditions back then was fairly brutal.