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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: mandy241005 on Friday 19 April 13 13:10 BST (UK)

Title: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: mandy241005 on Friday 19 April 13 13:10 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone,
I am not sure if any one here can helped me but I am stumped trying to find the birth of my 2nd  Great Grandmother and information on her parents.
I have her Marriage Certificate and it states
My 2nd Great Grandfather
William Albert Martin married Margaret Florence Davis. Her birthplace being listed as being in Walgett and her parents being George Davis (dec'd) and Sarah Ward (dec'd) when she was married on 17 Apr 1906
I also have her death in 12 Aug 1963 at Balmain her parents listed the same as above and I have her burial at Nowra General Cemetery. But I cannot find her birth. I have searched NSW BDM and the only Margaret Florence born to a George and Sarah Is a "Margaret Florence Brockenborough" District Walgett year 1879. Surely this is to much of a coincidence not to be my Margaret. I have ordered the record but in the meantime I am stumped trying to find information on her prior to her marriage using the names Davis or Brockenborough I was wondering if anyone had any ideas were I should look next. Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :)
Thanks
Mandy
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: cando on Friday 19 April 13 14:36 BST (UK)
What was her age on the marriage cert?

Cando
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: mandy241005 on Friday 19 April 13 14:45 BST (UK)
She was 28 at the time of marriage.
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: judb on Friday 19 April 13 14:58 BST (UK)
Did you gggrandmother have any siblings?

I see that George Brockenborough and Sarah ( no surname given for her) had 3 children registered -
George, 1877 registered at Walgett (Edit: died 1877, reg Walgett, surname Brokenborough)
Margaret Florence, 1879, reg Walgett
Hannah Elizabeth, 1881, reg Bourke (Edit: died 1881, reg Bourke, surname Brokenborough)

There is a public tree which suggests that George Brockenborough's wife and mother of these children was Sarah Margaret McCusker and adds another child James William 1883, reg at Walgett - spelt BROKENBOROUGH: .  There are some older half-siblings for the Brockenborough children.

It is not looking as though this is your gggrandmother - but it sure is a co-incidence.  Please let us know what you find on the birth certificate.

Judith
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: MargP on Friday 19 April 13 15:01 BST (UK)
Hi

The Rrockenborough name sounds more like a place, then a surname, I wonder if it as been transcribe incorrectly, the 1st names of the parents are right, also the area, unless for some reseason George changed his name, what information do you have on the marriage for George and Sarah

Margp
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: mandy241005 on Friday 19 April 13 15:17 BST (UK)
Thanks for helping,
This lady is driving me insane I brought the record just because it seemed a coincidence and I didn't know where else to look not sure if it will turn up anything. I know nothing of this side of my family and am not sure if she had any siblings and I don't have any info on her parents as I only have their names off the marriage certificate and death record. I have no dates for them.  :-\

Thanks
Mandy
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: MargP on Friday 19 April 13 15:44 BST (UK)
Hi

I have found this record
NSW Police Gazette

Vide Police Gazette, 1871, Page 315, and 1872, page 134

George Brokenborough, not Brackenbury, as stated in previous reports charged on warrant with forging a cheque for £7.10s and uttering the same to John Brasen, was arrested by constable Malarkey, Singleton Police, remanded to Walgett

Could Margaret have been adopted by George Davis. and Sarah Ward was her mother, and the wife of George Brokenborough

Margp
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: muss on Friday 19 April 13 22:58 BST (UK)
Hi

If the tree on Ancestry is correct, and the mother of Margaret Florence is Sarah Margaret McCusker, I have some information.  Constantine Cornelius McCusker married Ellen Galbraith, their daughter Sarah Margaret born 01 May 1851 married 1st Thomas McDonald.
 Ellen Galbraith, father Matthew Galbraith , mother Sarah Carter, is part of my Family Tree  ( a lot of information on this family available on the net).
Siblings of Sarah Margaret
 Anthony McCusker changed his surname to HOLTON  he lived in NSW and QLD.  I have Ellen's death certificate and Anthony Holton (son) was the informant.
Mary Jane married William Frederick Charles  WYMAN, he changed his surname to GOLDEN
another sister married a MONKTON ( I think from memory he or his brother was somehow connected to William Ward ( Thunderbolt)
Maybe that is how the name WARD is connected.
 Good luck with trying to sort out this family.
Muss
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: Billyblue on Friday 19 April 13 23:27 BST (UK)
There is a death of a George Davis at Narrabri in 1889 and a Sarah Davis at Narrabri in 1891, also a Sarah Davis in 1901 at Tamworth, which might throw light on the family.  Plus a few George Davis deaths in the general Armidale - Glen Innes area between 1877 & 1902.

Do you know the occupation of George?  If he was a farmer, perhaps land records for that district may help?

If George Brockenborough was convicted in 1871 (see Police Gazette) he may well have changed his name on release??

Dawn M
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: MargP on Saturday 20 April 13 00:12 BST (UK)
Hi

If the tree on Ancestry is correct, and the mother of Margaret Florence is Sarah Margaret McCusker, I have some information.  Constantine Cornelius McCusker married Ellen Galbraith, their daughter Sarah Margaret born 01 May 1851 married 1st Thomas McDonald.
 Ellen Galbraith, father Matthew Galbraith , mother Sarah Carter, is part of my Family Tree  ( a lot of information on this family available on the net).
Siblings of Sarah Margaret
 Anthony McCusker changed his surname to HOLTON  he lived in NSW and QLD.  I have Ellen's death certificate and Anthony Holton (son) was the informant.
Mary Jane married William Frederick Charles  WYMAN, he changed his surname to GOLDEN
another sister married a MONKTON ( I think from memory he or his brother was somehow connected to William Ward ( Thunderbolt)
Maybe that is how the name WARD is connected.
 Good luck with trying to sort out this family.
Muss
There are also Ward's and Davis's in this tree, but I can't see the connection
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: muss on Saturday 20 April 13 01:00 BST (UK)
Hi

No  Monkton was not related to Thunderbolt, just part of his gang.


Muss
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: mandy241005 on Saturday 20 April 13 03:00 BST (UK)
HI,

I did see the gazette article when looking through Trove. I have come across a few George Brokenborough's but none seem to fit.
I have been searching for possible deaths for Sarah and George as her marriage certificate states they were deceased when she was married in 1906 I was hoping to find burial records or anything that could lead to a hint.
The only information I have on Sarah and George is what is on Margarets marriage and death record so anything could be possible with this family.

Thanks
Mandy
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 20 April 13 04:16 BST (UK)
1161/1898
BROKENBOURGH, GEORGE
Parents: JOHN & ELIZABETH
registered at COLLARENEBRI

6712/1887
BROKENBOROUGH, SARAH
Parents: CORNELIUS
DIED BREWARRINA
registered at BREWARRINA

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: Neil Todd on Saturday 20 April 13 07:30 BST (UK)
I think they may have known a few people out this way.

http://austcemindex.com/cemetery-inscriptions.php?id=127

Neil
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: muss on Saturday 20 April 13 08:58 BST (UK)
Hi

HMMMM father Cornelius  ( Constantine Cornelius ? )  this is getting interesting.

Muss
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: mandy241005 on Saturday 20 April 13 10:01 BST (UK)
Thanks Everyone for your help and hints.  :)

Sorry Billyblue I only just seen you question asking about George Davis's occupation. On the marriage certificate it states her fathers profession as being a Carrier.

I just thought I would add the witnesses on the marriage certificate are G.Upton and I. Melly.

Thanks
Mandy
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: MargP on Saturday 20 April 13 10:45 BST (UK)
Hi

On the death certificate for Margaret, does it give her date of birth, on one of the tree's on Ancestry it  gives Margaret F Brokenborough date of birth as the 11 March 1879

Margp
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: mandy241005 on Friday 10 May 13 10:42 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone,

Just an update on my search for my gg grandmother I am still as lost a ever.

I received the birth certificate for Margaret Florence Brokenborough or Brockenborough as its spelt both ways on the certificate.

Date and Place of Birth - Eleventh March 1879, Warrena Steet Walgett.
Name - Margaret Florence
Sex - Girl
Fathers Details - George Brokenborough, Carrier, age 52, born Wiltshire England.
Marriage - January 1873, Maitland NSW. (One male living)
Mothers Details - Sarah McCosker, age 40, born Pattersoon ?? NSW
Informant - George Brockenborough, Father

Ive tried looking up details on this certificate but nothing seems to add up  ???

Thanks Mandy.
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: MargP on Friday 10 May 13 11:37 BST (UK)
Hi

On the death certificate for Margaret, does it give her date of birth, on one of the tree's on Ancestry it  gives Margaret F Brokenborough date of birth as the 11 March 1879

Margp
Hi,Do you have the DC for Margaret, to check if the date's of birth match
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: Neil Todd on Friday 10 May 13 11:40 BST (UK)
A Sarah McCusker was born in 1851 no details as to where though. Ref # V18511916 68/1851

This would have made her age at marriage in 1873 only 22 not 40. Father was Cornelius Mother was Ellen.

Now this fellow had some stamina his name on the next birth (if his) was Constantine Cornelius McCusker and he had a son John in 1880 at Tamworth ??? with wife Ellen who must have had a few grey hairs by then.

Maybe I am a bit ODD if I dont get my Teaas some think, BUT. I wonder if the name Brokenborough is actually

BROCKENBROUGH. Which if translated means Broken Branch. The family tree creaks under the weight of its broken branches. HMM ::)

Neil ;)

Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: majm on Friday 10 May 13 12:00 BST (UK)
Hi there,

Neil's raising some good thoughts there !

I wonder if there's conflicting or confirming information on an official transcription of a birth in 1877 at Walgett for a George BROKENBOROUGH, son of George and Sarah ....  NSW BDM #22025.

Official transcriptions arrive by email, and are cheaper than the real deal cert, but have same info.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm   

Do we know/suspect which denomination for the likely 1873 marriage at Maitland?   

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: majm on Friday 10 May 13 12:16 BST (UK)
Well, I can confirm that on the NSW Electoral Roll for THE GWYDIR, for 1878, and listed in the Walgett Police District, there's  ;D  ;D
George BROKENBOROUGH, (qualified because of) residence, Namoi River.
Frank McCOSKER, (qualified because of) residence, Llanillo.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: majm on Friday 10 May 13 12:31 BST (UK)
A Sarah McCusker was born in 1851 no details as to where though. Ref # V18511916 68/1851

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTDL-WZ4

I think this link gives a match to the baptism that Neil has found.   BUT whether that is the Sarah who married George Brokenborough at Maitland in 1873 or thereabouts ....  We haven't confirmed that as yet....

So, that baptism is recorded in NSW BDM Vol 68  ;D

"Roman Catholic  1840-1855   Vols. 61-72"
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4

Perhaps Sarah married George in the same Church as she had been baptised in?   

IF we find Sarah's marriage indexed at NSW BDM, I would NOT be rushing off to purchase the real deal cert.   NSW BDMs from that era usually are full of blanks.   Here's a thread I did up about how to overcome the blanks (which include the names of the parents of the bride and the groom, where the bride and the groom were born, and all the vital info to confirm you have the 'right' bride and groom)....    Even if we don't find the NSW BDM reference for that 1873 marriage, with a bit of outside the square thinking we could at least establish the likely RC church in the Maitland area for the marriage.   The clergy's name will be on the Early Church Record at NSW BDM for that baptism.  (Please don't spend money on that real deal document either, but perhaps an official transcription will have sufficient info typed up on it to help).

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

Cheers,  JM

Cheers,  JM
 
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: mandy241005 on Friday 10 May 13 12:40 BST (UK)
Margp
[/quote]Hi,Do you have the DC for Margaret, to check if the date's of birth match
[/quote]

I do have the death certificate for Margaret but it has no Birth date it just states she was 84yrs at death.

Thanks,
Mandy
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: MargP on Friday 10 May 13 16:44 BST (UK)
Hi

"Fathers Details - George Brokenborough, Carrier, age 52, born Wiltshire England"

"George Davis's occupation. On the marriage certificate it states her fathers profession as being a Carrier."

So both the George's had the same Occupation

Margp
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: majm on Sunday 12 May 13 03:00 BST (UK)
A Sarah McCusker was born in 1851 no details as to where though. Ref # V18511916 68/1851

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTDL-WZ4

I think this link gives a match to the baptism that Neil has found.   BUT whether that is the Sarah who married George Brokenborough at Maitland in 1873 or thereabouts ....  We haven't confirmed that as yet....

Some bits and pieces, perhaps totally unconnected, and perhaps best just set aside IN CASE there’s a connection found at some time in the future, hopefully leading from the discovery of the 1873 marriage for Sarah and George AND the full details that the clergyman recorded in his parish register.....

Remember Sarah McCusker, baptism  28 Aug 1851 RC West Maitland (daughter of Cornelius McCUSKER and Ellen nee GALBRAITH) …

1848 NSW BDM Early Church Records MARRIAGE
Constantine C MC CUSKER and Ellen GALBRAITH marriage   vol 33B line 514 (C of E, Scone district)

Well, from the 1870 NSW for WEST MAITLAND.   (Females not eligible to enrol until 1902)
William Hamilton GALBRAITH, Abbott St, West Maitland, freehold,

W H GALBRAITH’s deceased estate (Sydney) at NSW SRO index shows death 14 Jan 1882, with Probate granted 8 March 1882.   NSW BDM ref. 87/1882 (ie “87” suggesting early in 1882) has William H GALBRAITH death with parents as William and Mary J.  death registered Sydney.

 ;D  ;D  ;D  Could he be related to Ellen Galbraith?


1864 marriage registered MAITLAND, Wiliam H GALBRAITH and Sarah ROBINSON NSW BDM ref 2391   

 :)  :)  :) Sarah ..... was this lass the person George's wife Sarah was named after?


1895 marriage for Thomas,  a child for MCCUSKER’s ….. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZ6-ZJW

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-663-11230-765-46?cc=1532172&wc=M9MT-HQ1:n1778219221

McCUSKER passenger list for Runnymede Aug 1841 http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.asp?series=NRS5316&item=4_4788&ship=Runnymede

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: muss on Sunday 12 May 13 05:52 BST (UK)
Hi 
William  Hamilton Galbraith not related, Parents of Ellen are Matthew Galbraith and Sarah Carter.
Matthew Galbraith died 1868 Paterson
Sarah Galbraith nee Carter died 1885 Tighes Hill ( Newcastle) at the home of her son my Great grandfather William Galbraith  died 1892 Newcastle
 there are a lot of trees on the net
Muss
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: Patricia Smith on Wednesday 27 April 16 04:48 BST (UK)
Hello
Margaret Florence is my Grand mother. Her daughter Eunice is  my mother. I have just started looking into the family now. I wish I had seen your posts first.
She lived with my Uncle Roy before she died and unfortunately he has passed away, as have all her children so no one to ask.
I hope one of us finds something about her
Patricia
Title: Re: Help with my GG Grandmother
Post by: MARSDENW on Thursday 06 March 25 10:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Mandy
I’m not sure whether I can help. My great grand mother Frances Martha Ward was born to Sarah Elizabeth Ward in Walgett in 1885.  Sarah was born in 1866 in Winchester UK. Sarah had 3 other children Adelaide 1886, William 1887 and Eva 1889.  On William’s birth certificate his father is listed as William Mantle who was a boundary rider on Oreel Station near Narrabri. No father is listed on the birth certificates for Martha or Eva. I can’t find a birth certificate for Adelaide. The children were placed into care in 1890 by their father William (Ed) Mantle and their mother is listed as dead. I have not been able to find a death certificate for Sarah.
Sarah’s parents are Joseph and Patience Ward. I have proved my connection to this family through a DNA test