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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: lilpurplepearl on Thursday 18 April 13 09:33 BST (UK)
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Salutations,
Just as I break down one brickwall, I go running full pace into another. I am searching for any information of my 3rd Great Grandmother Comfort Burgoyne nee: Hayne who I last see mentioned in the Northampton Mercury Newspaper Index in 1839;
Year: 1839
Subject Title: To The House of Corrections
Forename: Comfort
Surname: Burgoyne
Type: Misbehavior
Place: Union Workhouse
Place: Brackley
Notes: Comfort Burgoyne and Elizabeth Middleton, convicted of misbehavior in Brackley Union Workhouse.
After this I cannot find any documentation of a re-marriage or death or burial.
Comfort (I'm assuming) was born about 1815 in Brackley. She married John Burgoyne on Dec 12, 1836 in Brackley St Peter. Sometime between 1836 & 1839 she & John had a daughter named Elizabeth (my 2nd Great Grandmother) who was raised in the workhouse after her father refused to collect her. John was a journey man/basket maker & I have traced him through census & his death in 1895 in Godstone, Surrey but am still unable to find anything on Comfort.
Any information or leads as to what I can do to find her would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi
How does John describe himself in the census - married/widowed/single?
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I guess you have info on Elizabeth.
Married Brackley 31 Oct 1859 age 20 husband William Warr.
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There is only a small window of time in which anything could have happened to Comfort.
She is misbehaving in the workhouse in 1839, but is not listed in the census return for the workhouse in 1841.
Elizabeth Middleton is there, but is only age11.
And Elizabeth Burgoyne is there, age 5.
It would be worth contacting the relevant Local Record Office to see what workhouse records have survived. If they do hold any, you might get a clue as to whether Comfort died or was discharged.
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That sounds like the best idea :)
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Elizabeth is still in the Brackley workhouse in 1851 and is listed as an orphan.
So that would seem as though her mum had died before that then?
Info about the Northampton record office.
http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/en/councilservices/Community/archives/Pages/Visiting-the-Record-Office.aspx
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Is she?
I must look again, I thought I found her elsewhere!!
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You are right -
Brackley Workhouse
It is indexed as 'apprentice' , rather than orphan ...........
HO107 1735 41
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Hello & thank you to all who replied :)
Milliepede - to answer your question about how John describes himself in the census is as follows.
1841: John Bergeyne, 21, basket maker, Southill, Bedfordshire.
1851: John Burgoine, 34, basket maker, single, lodging in Palace St, Biggleswade. Born Brackley, Northants.
1861: No census found for either him or my 2x Great Grandmother Elizabeth Warr (nee: Burgoyne).
1871: John Burgoyne, 55, widower, Basket maker born Brackley, Northants living in Oxted, Surrey.
1881: John Burgoyne, 63, unmarried, Railway Labourer born Northamptonshire living in Oxted, lodger in Royal Oak, run by a basket maker/publican.
1891: John BURGYNS, 75, widower, born Brackley Northants, basket maker, lodging with an agricultural carter and his wife and blind son at New Zealand, The Village, Tandridge, Surrey.
Before I get off the topic of John, I will also mention his 2 appearances in the Northampton Mercury Index.
Year: 1842
Subject Title: Commitments To The County House of Corrections
Forename: John
Surname: Burgoyne
Type: Leaving child
Place:
Place: Brackley St. James
Notes: For two months for leaving his child chargeable to Brackley St. James
Year: 1843
Subject Title: Commitments To The County Gaol and House of Corrections
Forename: John
Surname: Burgoyne
Type: Leaving child
Place:
Place: Brackley St. James
Notes: For three months, for leaving one of his children chargeable to Brackley St. James.
I don't have any information of any other living children other than my Elizabeth.
The only information I am unable to find on Elizabeth is her birth/christening record, I still don't know what her birth date/year is. She died here in QLD, Australia in 1904 under the surname of Ward (that's another conundrum).
I have always thought (after reading books on workhouses) that children were separated from adults in the workhouses. And if that is the case, why would Comfort be arguing with an 11 year old child to begin with?
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Women and children might be together. Or 11 might be old enough to be with the adults
Though, in 1841 I seem to remember the list was a mixture.
Looks like something happened to Comfort before 1841.
Maybe clutching at a non existant straw, but I do wonder about this death -
Apr/May/Jun 1839 Brackely - Joseph Burgoyne
With an unusual name like Comfort, it wouldnt be the first time a name has changed on its way to the GRO registers!
But first thing would be to see what workhouse records survive - your answers may well all be there.
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That's not her Liz ;D
Joseph Burgoyne buried at St Peter with St James Brackley on 13 Apr 1839 Age 8 Months.
Carol
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Thanks Carol, at least it is ruled out.
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Hi.
Welcome to Rootschat lilpurplepearl. :)
The Northants Record Office have a list of collections here.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0l6m/
There does not seem to be much coverage for the time period for Brackley
at the Northants Record Office in the Poor Law Records.
Brackley Poor Law Union. Reference: PL1
Guardian’s minutes 1835-1930
Correspondence 1897-1927
Financial papers 1835-1930
Workhouse building 1835-1888
Workhouse master's records 1836-1935
Including Register of apprentices 1882 - 1927
Register of admission and discharge registers 1914 - 1927
Medical Officer of Health papers 1869-1932
Including register of births 1910-1932
Register of deaths 1910-1931
Religious creed register 1890-1934
Outdoor relief records 1837-1930
School attendance committee minutes 1897-1907
The Record Office is having so many requests for information that there
is a backlog as I have had an e-mail reply to a request I made at the beginning
of April stating so, and I am still waiting a reply.
Sandy
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As to Elizabeth Burgoyne baptism there is no record of it in Northants.
Here are her marriage details from the N.M.I.
Brackley
31-Jan 1859
William WARR otp, bachelor, age 22, labourer, father William, labourer to
Elizabeth BURGOYNE otp, spinster, age 20, servant, father John, basketmaker
Sandy
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Also Alan Clarke has indexed the Northampton Mercury Articles
from 1833-1846 which are added to all the while.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tl3/
It can be dowloaded as a pdf file.
It mentions John and Comfort.
Sandy
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Not that this helps but the N.M.I. has Comfort as Wayne.
Brackley
12-Dec 1836
John BURGOYNE otp St Peter bachelor to Comfort WAYNE otp St Peter spinster
Still no baptism in the County. Maybe Oxon.
Sandy
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Thanks for being helpful everyone. I'll do a last ditch effort & send off a research service application form to the Northampton Records Office & sit back & wait patiently, although by Sandy's comment it could be a long while before someone gets back to me with a "I'm sorry but we can't help you" email.
Would anyone know if the name Comfort was a popular name around the beginning of the 18th century or a name that was used more in certain areas? My 2x Great Gran Elizabeth Warr (nee: Burgoyne, Comforts daughter) went on to have at least 2 living children while living in the UK & one was named Alfred Colimer Warr. I could never understand where she got the name Colimer from, maybe it was what she remembered of her mother.
Yeah Sandy, I've seen that, I think it's a transcribing error. I have a pic of the microfiche & it definitely says Hayne, although it hasn't stopped me from searching using Wayne just in case ;)
Christine
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I wonder whether that Joseph Burgoyne was a child of Comfort's though? It's not like there was a glut of Burgoynes there! ;)
Joseph birth reg Sep Q 1838 Brackley, death Jun Q 1839 Brackley
Then there is a Mary death in 1848.
And then Elizabeth's marriage in 1859.
Some years ago I was in touch with a person who was trying to identify a Comfort with the same surname as one of my ancestors (born c1804 in Gloucestershire, apparently). She had the idea that it was a traveller name. I wonder whether that might be consistent with the basket-maker occupation. And be a reason for not finding traces of your Comfort. ;)
It's also mentioned as being a Quaker name, not that your Comfort sounds very pacifist!
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I think I would look at the HAYNES familiy members in Brackley in 1841 and 1851.
1851:
Hannah Haynes, 61, widow, laundress, born in Bloxham, Oxfordshire c1790
daughter Hannah Haynes, unmarrried, 33, laundress pauper, born Brackley c1818
Robert Haynes, 44, ag lab, born Brackley c1807
wife Mary, 40, lace maker, born Oxfordshire c1811
(per Northamptonshire marriage index, Mary Padbury, married 1833 Brackley)
4 children born Brackley
Robert and family (including the Ann who is a servant in 1851) are there in 1841.
The Hannahs are Hains in 1841 in Brackley.
1851 also has
Isaac Haynes, 40, born in Warminster Wiltshire, in Brackley.
Thomas Haynes, 40, born in Brackley, in Newbury Berkshire.
Was Comfort of this parish when she married? If so, again, there is no glut of Hayne-ish surnames in Brackley.
The Northamptonshire marriage index shows only two male Hayne marriages pre-1837, but a gazillion Haynes marriages, so I would consider that her likely name rather than Hayne.
A John Haynes otp married a Hannah Plumb otp in Brackley in 1804.
Also, a Richard Haynes of Brackley married a Mary Coates otp in Wappenham in 1795.
And there are earlier marriages, one with spelling Hayns.
Then there is the Hain/Haines/Hains spelling: one in Brackley, John Haines/Stains to Elizabeth Parker 1798.
A Comfort Prestidge died in Brackley reg dist in 1842. In 1841, Anc'y has mistranscribed the name as Prestridge, in Morton Pinkney; she is abt 40, her apparent husband John, ag lab, is abt 35. But lo, after considering the possible traveller connections of the names, I have ruled her out: John Prestidge married Comfort Wilson, 1827, and her father is in that household. Ruling out is always part of the job. ;)
A Comfort Lock died in Brackley in 1840; only the death cert would give more info. There is a family in Brackley mistranscribed as Lack at Anc'y (and what a lot of Locks mistranscribed as Lacks there are) and she is likely one of them.
John Haynes and Hannah Plumb look interesting, I think.
Children of theirs showing at FS are
Hannah 1815
Hannah 1817 (likely a replacement child)
and possibly Jane 1813 (mother shown as Ann)
I wonder ... I have Northamptonshire ancestors who had children named:
Ann Maria
Eliza Ann
Eliza Jane
Mary Ann
Mary Jane
in I always forget what order. Eliza Jane was mine, and was called Jane. Could one of the Hannahs have been Hannah Comfort? ;)
There were also an unmarried Ann Haynes and an unmarried Sarah Haynes having children around the same time in Brackley.
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The Comfort Lock death registered in the Brackley region in 1840,died in Kings Sutton aged 78.
Buried at All Saints King's Sutton on 28th October 1840.
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A Comfort Lock died in Brackley in 1840; only the death cert would give more info
From the Burial Register
Kings Sutton P.C.
Pg. 97, No. 776
Comfort Lock died October 25th at Kings Sutton, buried October 28th 1840 aged 78 years.
Sandy
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Snap Sandy ;D
Glad you agree with me.
I had to look at an atlas first to find out where King's Sutton was ;D
Carol
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Of course I do Carol. :)
It is the last village in the County by the Oxen border.
Worst churchyard I visited to try and take M.I's.
Sandy
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Okay I looked at the Parish Registers at the Library today.
Brackley P.C.
Pg. 99, No. 295
John Burgoyne, Bachelor, otp of St Peter, Brackley and Comfort Hayne, Spinster, otp
were married in the College Chapel by Banns, twelfth day of December 1836
John signed his name, Comfort her mark.
Sandy
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Their daughter's marriage.
Brackley P.C.
Pg. 134, No. 268
October 31st 1859
William Warr, 22, Bachelor, Laborer, Brackley, father William, Laborer
Elizabeth Burgoyne, 20, Spinster, Servant, Brackley, father John, Basket Maker
William signed his mark, Elizabeth her name
Witnesses: Thomas Turvey and Anne Sophia Turvey both signed their marks.
Sandy
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I could only find one baptism of a child Henry to them.
Brackley P.C.
Pg. 22, No. 169
Bap Feb 15th 1860, Born 25th Jan 1860
Henry to William and Elizabeth Warr, Brackley, Labourer
I looked until 1868.
Sandy
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I think we have already confirmed no baptism for Elizabeth in 1830's
or Joseph.
The burial of Joseph is noted as below.
Brackley P.C.
Pg. 122, No. 972
Joseph Burgoyne, Brackley, April 13th 1839, aged 8 months
After 1840 the Vicar started to note Workhouse in the left-hand column.
Sandy
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Burial at Brackley.
Brackley P.C.
Pg. 168, No. 1340
Mary Burgoyne, January 16th 1848 aged 66.
Mary was more than likely the Mother of Comfort's husband John.
This may help other folk who also maybe related to the families.
Sandy
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So, if Comfort wasn't buried in those few years when she disappears, then maybe she left the workhouse - leaving Elizabeth there. Maybe she left with another man and took his name.....
(who knows, maybe if she was starting a new life, she may have taken the opportunity to have dispensed with the name 'Comfort' too, I think I would!)
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I couldn't agree more. ;D
As she came to the House of Correction in Northampton
it would have been easy to disappear in a large town.
I can not see a burial for her in the Town Chuches and as
we know folk often found new partners and called themselves
husband and wife without the legal certifcate.
Poor Elizabeth left in the Workhouse in Brackley.
I do hope we can find out some more.
Sandy
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You people are absolute machines :) I truly do appreciate all of your ideas & help.
I could only find one baptism of a child Henry to them.
Brackley P.C.
Pg. 22, No. 169
Bap Feb 15th 1860, Born 25th Jan 1860
Henry to William and Elizabeth Warr, Brackley, Labourer
I looked until 1868.
Sandy
There is also a child named Frederick Warr baptised on Mar 2, 1862 in Turweston, Buckingham parents listed as William & Elizabeth Warr. And he died in the Apr qtr of 1870 at Winkfield, Easthampstead, Berkshire. Which then allowed me to find Alfred Warr who later on becomes Alfred Colimer Ward here in Australia. He was born in the May qtr of 1871 in Winkfield, Easthampstead, Berkshire, England (3 weeks old on Apr 2, 1871 Census night).
In a few of the replied posts the name Susannah has been mentioned. On John & Comfort's marriage record the witnesses were Benjamin Durran & Susannah Durran. Both John & Benjamin signed their names where Comfort & Susannah marked it with a 'X'. I wonder if Comfort & Susannah were sisters? I realise that education was not on the list of priorities but to have 2 husbands that were literate enough to write their own names & 2 wives that couldn't, could I be on to something?????
P.S - My bad., the name mentioned was Sarah not Susannah, sorry.
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In 1841, Ben Durran was recorded as Ben Durham, 30, tailor, with wife Susanna, 30, in Deddington, Oxfordshire, both born in county. An Anc'y user has corrected the name to Durran and called it a transcription error, which it isn't: the name Durham is very clear. So that user must know something. ;)
Several Anc'y trees (accessible free of charge by registering at www.mundia.com) have him. The first one I looked at (2433 people in it) shows him married to ... Susanna Durran. Not helpful! ... None of the others does any better.
But wait! The last one I looked at (with nearly 12000 people and sometimes they are the least reliable) has him married to Elizabeth HAINE. Hm hmm!
What they have done to FamilySearch in the last few days ... it's refusing to do anything for me now, but worth looking for a marriage.
Here we go, birth of son Benjamin 1840, mother Susanna. And other children:
Ann Lucy 1831
Mary Ann 1833
Jonathan 1838
Rebecca 1842
Sophie Ellen 1844
Not sure whether I've caught them all on a quick scan. All in Deddington, all with mother Susannah.
Aargh. Susanna is gone by 1851 so no chance to check her details.
Death 1849, Woodstock reg dist.
Benjamin and Susanna Durran had children born post-registration.
Rebecca Durran, Jun Q 1842, Woodstock 16 143
Get the birth certificate and find out who Susanna was!
I love spending other people's money. ;)
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Here's a wild theory for you.
1851 in Hook Norton, Oxfordshire, which is about 5 miles west of Deddington, Brackley being a little more than that ENE of Deddington.
C.B., female, 37 (c1814), lunatic
The head is just called Superintendant of Asylum, no name is given for the institution.
This designation would be consistent with her behaviour in the workhouse and with her daughter being abandoned there -- or with being a rebellious woman (although I don't think promiscuity would have merited committal to an institution for a working-class woman at that time -- but a husband might have had some authority especially if he did not want to support her).
When you got nothing, anything is worth a look!
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Hi again lilpurplepearl.
I had exactly the same thoughts about Susannah yesterday afternoon. :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,214533.0.html
No reply of yet.
Sandy
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I think JaneyCanuck's find and idea is a very likely explanation .
I was looking for CB's in institutions only yesterday, thinking along the same lines. But my geography let me down, as I only looked in Northamptonshire!
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Here's a wild theory for you.
1851 in Hook Norton, Oxfordshire, which is about 5 miles west of Deddington, Brackley being a little more than that ENE of Deddington.
C.B., female, 37 (c1814), lunatic
The head is just called Superintendant of Asylum, no name is given for the institution.
When you got nothing, anything is worth a look!
It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Would there be an index of inmate admissions at this asylum in Hook Norton?
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Google Hook Norton Asylum- you will find that it was a private asylum.
But I'm sure that someone would have a list of inmates,possibly Oxford Record Office?
Carol
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To add to Carol's reply.
It seems they do hold some at Oxford Record Office. :)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tn9/
Lovely old Church Building. :)
Sandy
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I've emailed them with a basic inquiry into admissions. I'll baffle them with my family history missing person problem as soon as someone replies :)
Thanks Carol & Sandy.
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UPDATE: Someone got back to me from the Oxford Record Office, Yay! I will more than likely have to wait a week for their findings, boo! But hopefully I am on the right track :)
Thanks Chatters!
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Hopefully there will be something to confirm/refute ... but with it being a private asylum, I'm doubting my theory, as one might think there would have had to be money to pay for that ...
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UPDATE: Someone got back to me from the Oxford Record Office, Yay! I will more than likely have to wait a week for their findings, boo! But hopefully I am on the right track :)
Thanks Chatters!
That's brilliant news,fingers crossed then, that they have some info for you ;)
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Well done lilpurplepearl . :)
Let Carol and I know the outcome please. :)
I put your real name and suddenly realised. :)
Sandy
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Of course, me having suggested that possibility, I'm sure you won't conceal the outcome from me, lpp. ;D
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Of course I won't conceal my findings ::)
You guys have helped me in the way of opening up new avenues that I would not have even thought about.
Who was it that said....
When you got nothing, anything is worth a look!
;)