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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: iain2210 on Monday 15 April 13 16:29 BST (UK)
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Searching today for the marriage details of William Duncan and Elizabeth Burgess.
Both these names come from the Marriage Certificate of their son, who is undoubtably confirmed as my Great Grandfather.
The son was married in 1909, and has listed as his parents William Duncan (Seaman, Merchant Service) and Jessie Duncan (m.s. Burgess), both deceased. Both names crop up again on the son's Death Certificate in 1957, his mother listed as 'Elizabeth'.
I have done a search on Scotland's People, firstly on the Statutory Records. A search for 'William', 'Duncan' and 'Burgess' (all with Surname varients), '1855 - 1909', 'All Records', 'All Districts' brings up just one result. Expanding it a wee bit with a wildcard search on 'Burg*' brings up the same one result.
I also checked the Old Parish Records. From 1538 to 1854 there is only 1 incidence of any DUNCAN marrying a BURGESS anywhere in Scotland, or at least one that was recorded. That was in 1717, John to Agnes. Once again surname varients was applied.
Brilliant. It's looking good for the one result found in the Statutory Records to be the people I'm after, especially when the lady in question turns out to have the forename 'Betsy', an alternative for Elizabeth.
However (of course!), the people in question are from Orkney. Not in itself a problem, but this William Duncan is listed in the 1841 Census right through to the 1911 census, all the time being a shoemaker, which doesn't leave much time to be a sailor and die before 1909.
I suppose it could have happened before 1855 and not have been recorded, but the family were from the Dundee area, and I would have expected to find it. (The O.P.R.'s for Dundee marriages do exist for the time frame in question, at least as far as I can make out!)
So, am I missing something obvious and does anyone have any suggestions what my next step/s could be?
Thank you...
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
What was the sons name and how old was he when he married?
What was his occupation on the marriage cert
Where was he born
Where did he marry?
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Hi,
Son's name was William.
Married at age 28.
Occupation: Coal Miner
I haven't managed to track down his birthplace yet, although it may have been Dundee.
He was married at 12 Newton Place, Newton, Cambuslang on the 26th March 1909.
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Finding the birth certificate is the first thing to do. If a census tells you he was born in Scotland and where, check for a birth certificate both under Duncan and under Burgess in case he was illegitimate.
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Hi
I would recommend you search the 1911 census to find him and his wife as that will give his birthplace
With his father being a seaman and his mothers name varying between Jessie and Elizabeth - there is no obvious match on the 1891 census
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Thanks both, I shall check the 1911 tonight.
Hopefully he was legitimate, as it has caused a dead end in the past on my mothers side.
Frolicking farm labourers and all that! ;D
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Turns out he was born in Forfar, Dundee. Have to digest that now.....
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Do you have his birth record? I'm going to the Records Office tomorrow and could have a look for his birth if you like as well as his parents marriage.
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Turns out he was born in Forfar, Dundee. Have to digest that now.....
That, of course, means Dundee in the county of Angus a.k.a. Forfarshire or County of Forfar. Not the burgh or parish of Forfar in the said county.
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Thank Forfarian....I have just this minute realised that that is probably the case. So...Dundonian as first thought then......
Portybelle, I'll have a look, but it may be to late for you.....many thanks for the kind offer either way... :)
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Just in case it helps anyone, he's in already in Cambuslang on 1901 census entry:
William Duncan, 12 Montgomery Place Cambuslang, Coalminer
Boarding with the Hunter family
born 1880, Dundee
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I'm just searching back through the years...and just got that. Thanks!!
The 12 year old daughter of his Landlord eventually became his wife, and my great grandmother.
I am finding the next step hard going......the 1891 Census.
It is family lore that the Father, the William at the head of this topic, was a sailor who died young, possibly after drowning on a boat on the Tay. A fire onboard is mentioned too....but of course this could be nothing more than unhelpful wild conjecture.
It could of course also mean that as a 12 year old himself, William, who I am lookiing for on the 1891 census, is the same William Duncan to be found at 16 Nelson St, Dundee.
Must find what happened to Elizabeth Burgess too....that would certainly help...if she's not on the scene in 1891 then poor Willaim could have eneded up anywhere.
conjecture, conjecture... ???
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I'd say not 'your' William at Nelson St Dundee in 1891 ... the lady Robina, also at that address in 1891 is that William's mother and they are living together in 13 Derby St, Dundee in 1901 ... not in Cambuslang
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I'm afraid your William remains a man of mystery Iain! There are too many William Duncans across Scotland to check them all out but I looked at all the William Duncans or Burgesses born in Orknery, Dundee and Forfar from 1875-1885 and couldn't find one with even vaguely the right names of parents.
I also couldn't find a marriage for his parents. There were five Duncan/Burgess matches came up from 1855 - 1890. None had the right combination of names with your Orkney couple being the closest. I looked to see what children they had just in case but no William.
So, sorry but your search goes on.
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FWIW, if his mother's name is Jessie on his marriage certificate and Elizabeth on his death certificate, then Jessie is more likely to be right, because the information on the death certificate obviously wasn't supplied by William himself, whereas the information on the marriage certificate was. So it does look as if you are looking for an illegitimate birth, since there is no record of a marriage of Jessie Burgess to William Duncan.
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portybelle, thank you so much for taking the time to try and help a stranger who was stuck.
I'm still stuck, but I'm further forward, if that makes sense! Sometimes it's just as important to rule things out as in. :) (PM sent by the way...)
Forfarian, that makes sense....
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Hi,
No fun when we come up against "road blocks" but has anyone given thought to the fact that the registrar may have mis-heard Bessie as Jessie - not impossible and worth thinking about?
Annie.