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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: alramsey on Sunday 07 April 13 14:19 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I can't solve this one.
Looking for John BOWTELL b abt 1872 Spennymoor.
sometimes middle names of Dominic and Baptist are used.
From a marriage record his father was Edward (transcribed as Eduardi)
John is sometimes transcribed as Jonannis or similar (birth of his children transcriptions)
1891 records him as a boarder in Tanfield and 1901 records him at 13, Elswick Terrace, Gateshead.
I am now wondering if Bowtell has been derived from a foriegn name (Botelli perhaps) any help with 1881 census would be appreciated.
Best Regards
Alan
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Hi all,
I can't solve this one.
Looking for John BOWTELL b abt 1872 Spennymoor.
freeBMD shows John Baptist D Bowtell, 2q 1872, Auckland 10a, 283
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If the family were Catholic (and I suspect they were) then the "transcriptions you are seeing are simply the birth & marriage register entries in Latin! ;D
Catholic registers were always in Latin until fairly recently?
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i see his father was born newgate london 1837 i have come across him in the 1881 wales census he's married and lodging in swansea with the williams family he's a comedian census piece 5356 folio 22 page 40 .he was probably appearing in swansea grand theatre
his family are not with him could this be your man?
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If the family were Catholic (and I suspect they were) then the "transcriptions you are seeing are simply the birth & marriage register entries in Latin! ;D
Agreed! John Bowtell married in 1891 at St Joseph's Roman Catholic Church, Stanley, Co. Durham.
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there is a john bottell age 8 as a boarder in glasgow 1881 he was born england.
census scotland page 24 line 9 ed 12
with the arthur family 5 william st port glasgow
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did his mother jane die with his 2 brothers in 1874 do you think?
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i see his father was born newgate london 1837
Where did you get this information?
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i see his father was born newgate london 1837
Where did you get this information?
parish reg for st sepulchre london parents thomas &susannah father's occ cordwainer edward james bowtell born april 8th 1837 baptised 26 june 1837 living at skinner street
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i see his father was born newgate london 1837
Where did you get this information?
parish reg for st sepulchre london parents thomas &susannah father's occ cordwainer edward james bowtell born april 8th 1837 baptised 26 june 1837 living at skinner street
But what evidence do you have to show that this is the father of John Bowtell born Spennymoor?
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i see his father was born newgate london 1837 i have come across him in the 1881 wales census he's married and lodging in swansea with the williams family he's a comedian census piece 5356 folio 22 page 40 .he was probably appearing in swansea grand theatre
***********his family are not with him could this be your man?*********
IF ITS THE RIGHT ONE i thought it worth looking at
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i don't know how accurate this is but have come across a tree that shows john baptist dominic bowtell married to sarah rouke/rooke died 9 march1944 age 71yrs ferryhill co,durham
with parents i have mentioned in other posts
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I, too, saw that tree - BUT it has no sources?! ::)
It does have some rather accurate dates, though? :-\
On the 1871 census, Edward is an unemployed comedian.
RG10, Piece 3610, Folio 7, Page 8
Wife, Jane Palmer Bowtell and 2 children: George David (5, b Tunstall, Staffs), Edward William (1, b St Helens, Lancs).
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I can't solve this one.
Looking for John BOWTELL b abt 1872 Spennymoor.
sometimes middle names of Dominic and Baptist are used.
From a marriage record his father was Edward (transcribed as Eduardi)
I'm unsure about what you can't solve. :-\
His marriage certificate should give his father's name and occupation.
His birth certificate (see reply #1) should give his father's name and occupation and his mother's maiden name.
I can't see John (yet) in 1881.
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I can't see any of the family in 1881!
With father Edward being a Comedian, perhaps they were in Ireland or Scotland?
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With father Edward being a Comedian, perhaps they were in Ireland or Scotland?
Do we definitely know that Edward the comedian was John's father? :-\
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i see his father was born newgate london 1837 i have come across him in the 1881 wales census he's married and lodging in swansea with the williams family he's a comedian census piece 5356 folio 22 page 40 .he was probably appearing in swansea grand theatre
***********his family are not with him could this be your man?*********
IF ITS THE RIGHT ONE i thought it worth looking at
this must be him in 1881 swansea
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I can see two different trees on Ancestry for Edward J Bowtell and Jane Palmer Ramsay ::)
According to one of them their only child was John Baptist (no evidence given)
According to the other they had four children - George, Mary, Edward and Agnes.
I still think you need to get either the birth or marriage certificate.
At present this all seems to be guesswork :-\
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I still think you need to get either the birth or marriage certificate.
At present this all seems to be guesswork :-\
I thought OP had them?
Hence the latin names in post #1?
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I still think you need to get either the birth or marriage certificate.
At present this all seems to be guesswork :-\
I thought OP had them?
Hence the latin names in post #1?
Hopefully he'll let us know if he has them and what the exact details are ???
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Many Thanks to all for this marvellous discussion.
I have had confirmed today from a family member that Edward James was thought to be a travelling showman.
I now have a lot to go on. 1851 and 1841 census household details for Edward James would be interesting.
Best Regards and thanks again
Alan
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I have had confirmed today from a family member that Edward James was thought to be a travelling showman.
Hi Al :)
What actual evidence is this based on?
You haven't said what John Bowtell's 1872 birth certificate says regarding his father's name and his father's occupation? And what his mother's maiden name was?
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I wouldn't put a huge amount of trust in family tales! ;D
Whilst they mat contain a grain of truth, they are usually inaccurate!
E.G. My family is supposed to have French blood? Nearest I have found is GG-Grandfather born in Jersey!!
There is no substitute for documentary evidence.
If you don't yet have that certificate, a small fee could solve years of searching?
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Hi Al, John BD Bowtell is my g grandfather. I've got full family tree history going right back to his grandfather Thomas. Anything you want to know, more than glad to help.
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Hi ,
It would be great to compare notes.
could you text your email address
Regards
Alan
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(*) Moderator Comment:Phone number removed in accordance with RootsChat policy.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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You do realise that you've just published your mobile phone number to everyone?!
And I mean everyone using internet!
RootsChat posts can be found using a standard search engine! :o
If kbowtell makes 2 more posts, then they will be able to make use of the PM (Personal Message) system. MUCH more secure! ;D
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Hi Al, sorry I can't see your mobile no. until I make 2 more posts. Are you a relative of John BD's mother, Jane Palmer Ramsay?
Will Post again tomorrow.
Kev.
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Hi, JBD's father, Edward was an actor, comedian & author who toured with theatre companies both here & overseas. They often appeared together on stage as "first old men".
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Hi there
I wonder if anyone has any information on Jane Palmer Ramsay, wife of Edward James Bowtell, that they would be willing to share with me?
I would be really grateful to receive information re her death please? Perhaps she remarried and died under a different surname as I cannot find her death anywhere?
Thank you
regards
Janwbay
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Hi, Joohn Baptist Dominiic Bowtell was my gt.grandfather. born 1872 at spennymoor, co.Durham.
Father was Edward James Bowtell, born 1838 st.Sepulchre, Snow Hill, London.EJB was an actor &travelling showman who travelled in UK & USA, using his son as an extra in the act, (first old men).
EJB emigratedto USA and became an author & teacher, dying in Providence, Rhode Island on
4th Sept. 1912. his wife, Jane Palmer Ramsey,born 1841 Spitalfields , Separated 1880, did not go to USA & re-married, died 1891 in Wandsworth.
JBDB married Sarah Rourke & had 8 children(including my grandfather, William born 1896).
Other references to Glasgow (1881)& TanfieldLea (1891), are correct. 1901,family are at Elswick St., Gateshead.1911, family are at Ferryhill, Co. Durham where JBDB & Sarah lived the rest of their lives.
JBDBdied 1944 & Sarah died 1936
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Hi there
Thank you so much for you reply, and the personal message which you sent.
The information re Jane Palmer Ramsey is much appreciated and I I have replied to you in a personal message.
Thank you very much
regards
Jan