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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: GeorgiyH on Monday 01 April 13 05:07 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information about George Wickham and Dolly Bailey, my great grandparents. As far as I know, Dolly was nurse to Wickham's wife and became pregnant. Her son, my grandfather was born on 04/12/1908 and was initially raised by Dolly's sister and her husband, whose last name was Nisbet. My grandfather was called Arnold Rex Nisbet. Later he went to live with the Wickham's whom he thought of as his uncle and aunt. I believe they were from The Taranaki region. Any help is much appreciated.
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Hi George,
Here is the birth for Arnold from BDM's
1908/20573 Bailey Arnold Rex to Ivy/ father NR
Cheers Janette
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There is a tree on Geni that refers to an Ivy, interestingly born in the USA?
http://www.geni.com/people/James-Bailey/6000000006778184773
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This may be Ivy's sister's marriage
1907/3585 Constance Bailey to Albert Edgar Nisbet
Cheers Janette
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Thanks for the information so far. I wonder if there is a way to trace the parents of Wickham and Bailey.
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1905/6 Electoral Roll
George and Ellen Wickham at Lemon Street Taranaki
George works for the NZR
They were married 1902 George Wickham and Ellen Olver. The marriage cert would give you parents' names
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Hmmmmm,I was just going to post these births which I thought may fit
1877/8755 Bailey Alfred James / Sarah Ann/ Walter
1880/16391 Bailey Mary Edith / Sarah Ann /Walter
1881/11321 Bailey Walter Ernest/ Sarah Ann/ Walter
1883/6520 Bailey Thomas William / Sarah Ann/ Walter
1884/4128 Bailey Ivy / Sarah Ann/ Walter
1885/10317 Bailey Constance /Sarah Ann/ Walter
1886/15288 Bailey William John/ Sarah Ann/ Walter
1892/1499 Bailey Jessie Maud /Sarah Ann /Walter
1893/14062 Bailey Sydney John / Sarah Ann/ Walter
Cheers Janette
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I couldn't find Ellen and George together after the 1906 Electoral roll
Death Ellen Wickham 1906/4556 Age 30 years.
Ah re reading he married Ivy Bailey in 1908.
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crisane,
George doesn't appear to have married Ivy. Ivy though did bear a child in 1908 (2 years after Ellen died).
Ooops I can see a marriage
1910/5756 Ivy Bailey George Wickham
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Thanks for that. I had no idea her real name was Ivy - wonder how the nickname of Dolly came about. I wonder how to trace George Wickham.
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As crisane said the marriage certificate ought to give you accurate information about the bride and groom's parentage.
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How do I locate or view a copy of the marriage certificate? (Sorry to sound naive but still learning the ropes!)
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Hi George
You will find it by searching here
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
It is always better to purchase a printout as it is an actual coppy of the entry in the register,you can also have it emailed to you,
Cheers Janette
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George and Ellen had 2 children
1903/3339 Wickham Adelaide Beulah / Ellen/ George
1905/8375 Wickham George Kenneth / Ellen/ George
Cheers Janette
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Thanks for the information - much appreciated!
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Here is Ivy's death
1978/39039 Wickham Ivy born 19 June 1886
Cheers Janette
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Many thanks.
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Hi George,
This is probably Ivy's resting place, in Kelvin Grove Cemetery.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tai/
Cheers
KHP
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George,you could try emailing the funeral directors and asking for more
THOMAS GRIGGS & SON LTD are now Lychway Funeral Directors (formerly Thomas Griggs & Son Ltd)their email is here,I usually cut and paste the cemetery record in my email to give them all the info they may needinformation,
http://www.fdanz.org.nz/about-fdanz/fdanz-funeral-directors/manawatu.aspx
Cheers Janette
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I wonder how to trace George Wickham.
You need to buy one of his marriage certificates either to Ellen or Ivy which will give you his father's name and occupation and address etc. I am trying to think what else cos I was married in NZ many moons ago and should know. :) Others will have the answer
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Oops, not paying attention ;D
Cheers
KHP
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Possibly George's death
1959/28101 George Wickham age 83.
I searched for a birth for a George Wickham 1850 to 1900 and the only one that came up was born in 1899 so it is possible that your George was born somewhere other than NZ
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crisane, FYI, here is the information contained on NZ marriage certificates
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/datacollected/marriage.aspx
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Yes, I wondered too if might have been born outside NZ. Oh, well, a marriage cert will give me that info I presume. I don't know how detailed they were in the early 1900s.
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That George Wickham was buried at Wanganui, also of interest there is an Ivy Wickham died 1978 buried there.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0taj/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tak/
Cheers
KHP
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This is a big maybe,this chap has no age
Name: G Wickham
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 14 Jul 1892
Event Place: Sydney (other ports also listed), New Zealand
Gender: Male
Age:
Marital Status:
Nationality: Great Britain
Occupation: Gentleman
Birth Year (Estimated):
Shipping Company: Union Steam Ship Company of New Zealand Limited
Ship Name: Monowai
Departure Port:
Departure Place: San Francisco
Departure Date:
Arrival Port: Sydney
Arrival Place: Sydney (other ports also listed)
Digital Folder Number: 004435956
Image Number: 00033
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11676-50276-75?cc=1609792&wc=M9S3-VQZ:1496743609
Cheers Janette
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That George Wickham was buried at Wanganui, also of interest there is an Ivy Wickham died 1978 buried there.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0taj/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tak/
Cheers
KHP
Ivy that was on the Palmerston North database was cremated,maybe her ashes were interred in Wanganui
Cheers Janette
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crisane, FYI, here is the information contained on NZ marriage certificates
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/datacollected/marriage.aspx
Thanks twiggy. I am too frightened to look at mine it is so long ago :)
In Papers past I found this
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=FS19170219.2.9&srpos=37&e=-------10--31----2george+wickham--
but if this George came out in 1874 then the George who died in 1959 age 83 cannot be his son mentioned in the obit. On the other hand ages have been know to be wrong.
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IF we were looking for him in England (freebmd.org.uk) then I find it rather amusing there is a birth in the June quarter of 1877 for a George WICKHAM in Bath, England.
Pride and Prejudice anyone?
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Didn't twig at that Janette, thought it was strange that two Ivys were on the burial locator for the same year, and of course the same Funeral Director is listed on the Wanganui one.
Cheers
KHP
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You may have struck gold KHP ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Hope so :)
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George,
I suggest you contact the very helpful sexton at Wanganui cemeteries
http://www.wanganui.govt.nz/services/Cemeteries.asp
Cheers Janette
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Thanks for that. Looks like maybe we have our man. Could be traceable back to England then...
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In Papers past I found this
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=FS19170219.2.9&srpos=37&e=-------10--31----2george+wickham--
but if this George came out in 1874 then the George who died in 1959 age 83 cannot be his son mentioned in the obit. On the other hand ages have been know to be wrong.
Hi George
I'm inclined to believe that your George WICKHAM was born in New Zealand around 1876 and that he was the son of the George WICKHAM (died 1917) whose obituary (at above link) was found by
crisane.
Having said that, I cannot find his birth registration in NZ (nor one for Albert, the youngest son of George WICKHAM snr ) ?? [There could be a number of reasons for that ; surname spelled incorrectly on the online Birth index (- and as there's no "wildcard" search facility there, we can only guess variant spellings) ; or, the birth may not have been registered at all. ]
Cecilia, he last-born child of George WICKHAM snr. did though have her birth registered (1881) and from that we learn that her mother's name was Jane.
It's still important (as suggested here earlier), to purchase the marriage printout (1910) for Ivy BAILEY and George WICKHAM, just to make absolutely certain, that you're tracking the correct families. :)
In anticipation, I'll add the WICKHAM information I've located to date.
~ Lu
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Will begin with George WICKHAM (bc 1876) whose first marriage was to Ellen OLVER (1902).
PapersPast has their Marriage notice.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Feilding Star" - 3 May 1902 - page 2
[Extract ]
WICKHAM - OLVER ... on 30th April at St. Stephens, Marton, ... George, third s/o Mr G. WICKHAM of Feilding, to Ellen, eldest d/o Mr W. OLVER, Marton :
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Sadly the two children (Adelaide Beulah and Kenneth George) born to the couple, both died in infancy : They were buried at the Feilding Cemetery - as is their mother, Ellen.
The "Feilding Star" - 17 October 1905 - page 2, notes that baby Kenneth's death occurred at New Plymouth.
There is a headstone for the children (- photo available) at the following link >
http://www.mdc.govt.nz/Online_Services/Find_It/Cemetery_Search
George WICKHAM snr. (d. 1917) and his wife Jane (d. 1921) and several of their children / grandchildren are also at Feilding Cemetery.
continued >
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Back to the Obituary (1917) for George WICKHAM snr. :
There are a couple of wee errors. ;)
* born Kent
[- actual birthplace was Wadhurst, Sussex. Wikipedia says that Wadhurst was a market town in East Sussex, situated on the border of Kent and Sussex. ]
* arrived in NZ (1874) with one son. [The records show that 2 sons accompanied them. ]
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WICKHAM - arrival in NZ :
[Two sources of info : Petone Early Settlers database and a passenger list. ]
Petone d/base records that George WICKHAM of Sussex, was one of the immigrants selected by the Emigrant and Colonist Corporation (Vogel Immigration scheme). He was aged 33, a navvy by occupation, his wife "Eliza" [sic] was aged 32, and their two sons were aged 10 and 8 years :
They departed London, 29 January 1874 on the ship "Golden Sea" and arrived in Wellington on 1 May 1874.
A transcription of the passenger lists shows > WICKHAM - George (33) / Jane (32) / Charles (10) and Thomas (8) - native place : Sussex.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/GoldenSea.htm
[PapersPast has lots about the"Golden Sea". ]
continues >
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WICKHAM - arrival in NZ :
A transcription of the passenger lists shows > WICKHAM - George (33) / Jane (32) / Charles (10) and Thomas (8) - native place : Sussex.
ooops ... don't know how that "face" popped up ? ... ^ but the age of Thomas should read as 8 years.
;D
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... and just back to the Obituary again ... it mentions son George was living at Waitotara (in 1917).
The electoral rolls for > Taranaki - Patea > 1914 and 1919 show ...
WICKHAM - George - Waitotara - ganger
WICKHAM - Ivy - Railways, Waitotara - married
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1871 - UK Census
London > Kensington > St. John and St. James > Chelsea
WICKHAM [has been indexed as "WICKAM" ]
- George - head - marr. - 30 - L......... ? (can't decipher this word) in gas works -
born Sussex - Bothurst ?? [corrections have been offered for this showing it should read as "Wadhurst". ]
- Jane - marr - 29 - b. Sussex - Framfield
- Charles - son - 8 - scholar
- Thomas -son - 5 .... both sons born Middlesex - Kensington.
__________________
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The following appears to be the marriage of Jane and George :
WICKHAM - George - 24 yrs - bc 1840
Father: Jesse WICKHAM
DALE - Jane - 23 yrs
Father: Jesse DALE
Married on 28 September 1864 at St. Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, ENG.
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[Notes: Yes, both fathers were named "Jesse". ;D In NZ records I noticed also that two children of the youngest WICKHAM son, Albert, were given the second christian name of "Dale".
b. 1902 - Albert Dale WICKHAM and b. 1911 - James Dale WICKHAM - Parents: Margaret and Albert.]
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The eldest s/o Jane and George WICKHAM is shown in NZ records as "Charles John" :
I had hoped there might be London baptism records for Charles and his brother Thomas.
Thomas I can't even see a birth registration for ?? ... and Charles John I found had been registered and baptised, but in the surname of DALE.
Hammersmith & Fulham > Shepherd's Bush - St. Stephen
DALE - Charles John
Baptised : 24 August 1862
Born : 12 August 1862
Parents: Charles and [this part has been struck through]
Mother: Jane - single woman - residing at 21 Providence Place
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[Maybe the parents were a bit lax about registering births ? ;) Might account for George and Albert WICKHAM not showing on the NZ Birth index ? Of course it's worth checking the NZ birth microfiche record (available at larger libraries) too. ]
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George WICKHAM (snr.)
1841 - Sussex > Wadhurst
WICKHAM
- Jesse [indexed as Jepe - that funny old writing where "s" looks like "f" or "p" ] - 25 years
- Harriett - 25
- Benjamin - 4
- Herbert - 3
- George - 1
... all were born in County
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1851 - Sussex > Wadhurst
- Ballbeech?? Hill
WICKHAM
- Jefsee (Jesse) - Head - mar - 40 - Ag. Lab.
- Harriett - wife 43
- Benjamin - son - 15 - scholar
- George - son - 11
- Caroline - dau - 9 }
- James - son - 9 } [noted as being twins ]
- William - son - 7
- Josiah - son - 5
- Sarah A. -dau - 3
.... all shown as born - Sussex - Wadhurst
----------------------------------
I can't see where George WICKHAM is in 1861 ??
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Jane DALE (later WICKHAM)
1841 - Sussex > Framfield
- Cooper's Hatch ? - Cottage
DALE
- Jepe (Jesse) - 66 yrs - Labourer - born County
- Jane - 39 - b. Foreign parts
- Sarah - 19 - b. " "
- Ellinor - 14 - born Guernsey
- Anna ? - 12 - born County
- Jonathan ?? (looks like ...but is probably the son Benjamin? ) - 7
- James - 1 year
- Jane - 1 year
... all others born in county.
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1851 - Sussex > Brighthelmstone - Brighton
- # 60 Hereford Street
DALE
- Jane - 49 - Widow? - occupation: Nurse - b. Ireland - Lochlanbark?? [from transcription]
- Ellen - dau - 23 - servant - b. Isle of Gurnsey [sic]
- Benjamin - son - 16
- Jane - dau - 11 - b. Sussex - Framfield
- James - son - 11
.... Benjamin and James also b. Framfield
-----------------------------------
In 1861, Jane DALE (20) is working in Sussex as a servant.
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Just back further in thread, where 1978 death of Ivy WICKHAM is recorded, her date of birth (recorded at death) is shown as ... 19 June 1886 :
The NZ birth record for Ivy BAILEY (d/o of Sarah Ann and Walter BAILEY) was registered in 1884 - and date of birth (deduced from online listing) is ... 19 June 1884. ;)
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Thank you all so much for this useful and interesting information. When I get hold of a marriage certificate, it will hopefully clear up exactly which George Wickham he was.
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Hi George,
Don't forget to get the printout rather than the certificate,
Cheers Janette
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:) thanks for the reminder!
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The Golden Sea lead seemed promising, especially as George had a brother called Tom,but the dates seem wrong. I was under the impression George was born in 1875.
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Read some more information on an old photograph, and it looks like maybe the Golden Sea lead is right. There are more brothers, an Albert and Charles, and a sister Celia. Presuming that Charles and Thomas are the oldest brothers, then the information found above must indeed be the Wickham's I have been looking for!
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There are these births
1877/12196 Wickham Albert/ Jane/ Cora
1881/17775 Wickham Cecilia / Jane /George
I suspect the Cora is a transcription error
Cheers Janette
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Thanks for that Janette!
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This looks like Albert's School Record. Take the birth date with a pinch of salt, dates were sometimes inconcise and needs to be verified.
WICKHAM Albert
School Manchester Street Feilding
Admission Date 15 Aug 1882
Birthdate 11 Aug 1877
Last Day 24 Feb 1890
Destination Work
Cheers
KHP
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One for a Maggie ... Could it be Charles' daughter?
WICKHAM Maggie
School Manchester Street Feilding
Admission Date 29 Jul 1901
Parent / Guardian Charles Wickham
Address Denbigh St
Birthdate 07 Jan 1892
Last School Stratford
Cheers
KHP
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And one for Celia. Note the different spelling to the birth record.
Name WICKHAM Celia
School Manchester Street Feilding
Admission Date 3 Feb 1886
Parent / Guardian George
Address Denbigh St
Birthdate 22 Dec 1880
Cheers
KHP
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Many thanks for this!
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This could be Maggie's birth,maybe a grandchild of George
1892/1770 Wickham Margaret Jane to Elizabeth and Charles John
Cheers Janette
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Marriage
1890/2966 Elizabeth Campbell to Charles John Wickham
other children
1894/5086 Wickham Elizabeth Mary / Elizabeth/ Charles John
1895/16569 Wickham William Campbell / Elizabeth /Charles John
1897/10090 Wickham Charles John / Elizabeth /Charles John
1899/987 Wickham George Albert / Elizabeth /Charles John
Cheers Janette
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School record for George:
WICKHAM George
School Manchester Street Feilding
Admission Date 30 Jan 1882
Parent / Guardian Geo WICKHAM
Address Denbigh St
Birthdate 16 Mar 1876
Last Day 26 Apr 1889
Destination Home - work
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks once gain. It is amazing how much information is out there!
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Here is one for an Ella birth year 1901.
Name
WICKHAM Ella
School Lytton Street
Admission Date 20 Nov 1908
Parent / Guardian Mrs WICKHAM
Address Denbigh St
Birthdate 24 Sep 1901
Cheers
KHP
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I will add this one in, as it has Wanganui mentioned and is the little lassie mentioned above.
WICKHAM Ella
School St John's Infants Wanganui
Admission Date 28 Jan 1908
Parent / Guardian L Guthrie
Address Halswell St
Last Day 30 Jun 1910
Cheers
KHP
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Ella looks like she could be another grandchild,a daughter of Thomas who travelled out with George,Jane and Charles
1901/12045 Wickham Ella May to Alice and Thomas
Cheers Janette
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Marriage
1896/3605 Alice Guthrie to Thomas Wickham
Births
1897/13404 Wickham Thomas Albert/ Alice /Thomas
1899/1833 Wickham William Harold/ Alice/ Thomas
1900/7019 Wickham Aileen Maud/ Alice /Thomas
1901/12045 Wickham Ella May/ Alice /Thomas
1903/3894 Wickham Dorothy Mavis/ Alice /Thomas
1904/16819 Wickham Winifred Evelyn/ Alice/ Thomas
1906/7308 Wickham Frederick George / Alice/ Thomas
1907/3562 Wickham Vera Catherine /Alice/ Thomas
Cheers Janette
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WICKHAM Thomas
School Petone Central
Admission Date 1 Feb 1909
Parent / Guardian Thomas Wickham
Address Petone
Birthdate 08 Nov 1898
Last School Palmerston N.
Last Day 19 Oct 1909
One for William:
WICKHAM William
School Petone Central
Admission Date 1 Feb 1909
Parent / Guardian Thomas Wickham
Address Petone
Birthdate 10 Nov 1898
Last School Palmerston N.
Last Day 12 Oct 1909
Destination L. Hutt
Cheers
KHP
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WICKHAM Eileen Maud
School Te Aro
Admission Date 19 Jul 1910
Parent / Guardian Thomas Wickham
Address 134 Ghuznee St
Last School Mt Cook
Last Day 8 Feb 1910
Destination Private School
Comment
Later leaving date 01 Sep 1911 to Country
Cheers
KHP
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Here is the ship's manifest for the Golden Sea
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11557-88455-74?cc=1609792&wc=M9S3-KMP:831378567
Cheers Janette
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Hi,
There are other researchers on Ancestry with trees for Frederick George Wickham. Have you a subscription to it?
Cheers
KHP
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No, I don't have a subscription.
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Mundia has several trees for a George W Wickham born 1840 in Wadhurst Sussex died 1917 Pamerston North.
Mundia is free to join
Cheers Janette
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Sure is .....and will be able to make contact with the researcher.
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks Janette and Kiwihalfpint!
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This looks like it could be George's Marriage in the UK
Marriages Sep 1864
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Dale Jane Brighton 2b 352
Wickham George Brighton 2b 352
The district Brighton spans the boundaries of the counties of Sussex and East Sussex
Cheers Janette
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I found some further information about george senior's mother and her family. Her name was Harriett Stapley(1809-1860) daughter of Henry Stapley (1784-1866) and Frances Manktelow (1781-1866), Frances in turn was the daughter of Francis Manktelow (1760-1819) and Elizabeth (1762-?)
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There were some interesting old photos on Mundia of some of George junior's sisters
Cheers Janette
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Isn't it a bonus when you come across photos on trees. :)
Cheers
KHP
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:)
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Marriage details for George WICKHAM & Jane DALE (including date / place / names of fathers), has been given earlier in this thread. ;)
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Sorry Lu,I missed that,
Cheers Janette
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Hi George
At ancestry.com there are also trees for the family of Ivy (Dolly) BAILEY (Parents: Walter BAILEY and Sara Ann BROOKS.)
A cautionary word though ;): Just because these trees are presented online, it doesn't mean that the information contained therein, is correct. Many of them don't quote the sources of their information ... and a lot too, are simply copied from other people's trees. Of course there's no harm in viewing them and taking notes (or better still, contacting the tree owners), but it is important to be able to validate information with records from official sources. ;)
~ Lu
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That is a good point. It is very easy to take things at face value on the internet. Always good to see information confirmed in more than one place. I only just had a suspicion about who one of my g.g.g.grandfathers was confirmed by seeing another tree which had a daughter of his marrying a Kipling and I knew already that there were Kipling distant cousins in the family.
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At ancestry.com there are also trees for the family of Ivy (Dolly) BAILEY (Parents: Walter BAILEY and Sara Ann Sarah Ann BROOKS.)
ooops ... just spotted my typo above - should read as Sarah Ann BROOKS.
;D
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Thanks,
I will check that one out.
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Interested in your Wickham research.George and Jane(Jenny) Dale formerly Andersen came to NZ with two oldest boys.Charles was reputed to be Janes son but not Charles. Another sibling was
Albert (Darkie)Wickham who m Margaret Frances Wren .they had a number of chn the youngest of whom was Morea Joyce Elizabeth Wickham born when her mother was in her forties.Joyce m Geoffrey Thomas and I am their daughter Dennise.
I have lots of stuff and bits and pieces on most of the lines.
I think I remember meeting Dolly in Rotorua???? many years ago.
Was there a FuzzBuzz Nesbit connected.
Any specific questions I can help you with ??
Dennise. (*)
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Hi Dennise, it is good to hear from you. The moderator emailed me your email address, so I will write to you soon. I am interested about Jane Dale being formerly 'Andersen'. Was she married before marrying George Wickham snr? I have some records of her father, Jesse Dale's army service.
I wonder if 'FuzzBuzz Nesbit' could be my grandfather, Arnold Rex Nisbet, he always had a crew-cut. He was actually really a Wickham, but his birth certificate says Bailey, as he was born to Dolly before she married George Wickham jnr. He was given to her married sister Constance (who was married to Edgar Nisbet) and then George and Dolly after getting married, 'adopted' him back!
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Who were George and Dollys chn.Trevor??
Am away at lake at present but will look stuff up when I get home.
Fuzz Buzz was a female with a lot of curly hair.
Not sure if Jane was m twice.
Where do you fit in the family.
Good photo on ancestry posted by someone I gave a copy of photo to.
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Yes, Trevor was one of the children, also Gwen, Syd, Ron and as I mentioned, my grandfather Arnold Rex, who was born in December 1908, before George and Dolly were married. I will email you the other details so as not to mention names of living people.