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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: yelkcub on Thursday 28 March 13 16:18 GMT (UK)
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I'm hoping that members experienced in WW2 research might be willing to point me in the right direction in my attempt to research a woman who served in the ATS during the war. I have few details of her service - I believe she was attached to an anti-aircraft station at Spurn Point, and I know that following German surrender she was posted to Berlin. Her name was MARGARET (aka Peggy) PAGE. I've tried entering the name in a general search of military records, with no success. For any hints and tips, I'd be really grateful - I know so little about this part of her life, any small detail would be valued.
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Hi,
The MOD hold records from 1920s onwards;
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
Nanny Jan
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Many thanks for that tip, NJ. I followed the link you kindly supplied and will take it from there.
Best wishes IAN
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Late follow up
My late mother MURIEL WHEELER was also posted at some time to the Spurn Point AA battery. She did not like it there ... "Godforsaken place"
She and other ATS girls were tasked with operating the Vickers Predictor - a opto-mechanical gunsight cum computer for the big guns. Blokes manned the guns.
She did keep in touch with a couple of the other girls from her unit into the 1980s. Wish now I had noted their names, but I do not remember a Peggy Page. There must have been dozens of ATS rotated in and out of that posting over the duration.
Anecdote: the Predictor girls were trained in aircraft recognition of course. As a lad I made up Airfix model kits; one time a Lockheed Lightning, a USAF long range fighter. Mum recognized it immediately, and told me the story of one day practice tracking a Lightning across a clear blue sky, when - bang. It just blew up in her viewfinder. After a moments panic, she remembered the guns weren't even manned so she hadn't shot it down accidentally!
No parachutes, sadly. Turns out they had fuel leak issues and a few went up in flight.
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Sorry to be slow in responding to your kind message –– and many thanks for the details you added about the Spurn Point AA station. I'm sure you're right, there must have been, over the course of the war, many ATS personnel coming and going. I know that Mum was not in touch with any of her ATS colleagues, and she never ventured any details of her time at Spurn Point ... just that I seem to remember her saying that it was a lengthy posting. Mum spoke more often about her transfer in 1945 to Berlin / Potsdam. During her time there she was taken by bus to Belsen: it was not compulsory for British servicemen and women to make the visit, but the authorities thought it desirable that as many people as possible witnessed the atrocities committed by the Nazis, so that the Shoah would never be forgotten, so that no one in future could deny that such genocide had taken place. I know Mum's experience remained vividly with her.
Thanks again for the details you sent of the work undertaken by the ATS women. Do you think that they get enough recognition for their contribution?
Best wishes
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Hi,
The MOD hold records from 1920s onwards;
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
Nanny Jan
Just for clarity, to save any confusion as to which form to use, the ATS was part of the Army.
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The website says you need to know the person's service number to get a copy of their records. Where can that be found? ???
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The service number is NOT required.
The actual wording on the form says:-
* SERVICE NUMBER AND/OR DATE OF BIRTH MUST BE INCLUDED ( my bold emphasis)
Although I suspect it may make things quicker if it was included.
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Not sure which form you're looking at macwii, this is what the guidance notes say (before you click on the form):
3. Apply for the records of someone who's deceased
You can apply for a copy of someone else’s service records if any of the following apply:
you’re their immediate next of kin, for example their spouse or parent
you’ve got consent from their immediate next of kin
you have a general research interest - you’ll only have access to limited information, unless they died more than 25 years ago
You need to know the person’s full name, date of birth and service number.
Fill in 2 forms - a request form and a search form.
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The form is titled:-
SEARCH DOCUMENT
Application Part 2 - Army Specific
and the previous quote is under the seven blank boxes of DETAILS OF DECEASED SERVICEMAN/WOMAN.
I have the form in front of me as I type.
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Thanks, I see it on the form. Looks like they've got their guidance notes wrong!
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How are you getting on with your application? I too don't have the service number, and on the form it has an asterisk against service number to say it's compulsory.
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How are you getting on with your application? I too don't have the service number, and on the form it has an asterisk against service number to say it's compulsory.
Sorry but you are not reading the note correctly.
Edited
You have the option of supplying either a service number AND a date of birth OR just a date of birth
See post #7.
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Your Mrs Page and your Mum are both mentioned in one of the three books I bought a few months Back
Its late tonight but I wil check it ourt tomorrow and let oyu have details.
I am looking for info and photos of Sub later Major Mary H Yarwood WRAC previously ATS.
Colin
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Hi Colin
That's such good news––look forward to hearing more
Best wishes IAN
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OK
So you might like go to Abe Books website
This was my purchase:
The Girls Who Went to War
by Barrett, Duncan
Price: £ 1.89
Shipping: £ 0
Subtotal: £ 1.89
Girls in Khaki: A History of the ATS in the Second World War
by Green, Barbara
Price: £ 4.43
Shipping: £ 2.80
Subtotal: £ 7.23
There is a lot about individuals in there - sadly nothing on my Aunt who as Major lead the ATS Platoon on the VE Day March past with Alsatian dog mascot - I had a photo of her but cannot now find it.
They are very cheap. You won't be disappointed.
Let me know if you turn anything up on Major Mary H Yarwood WRAC - formerly Subalt M H Yarwood ATS - Ack Ack at Bude Cornwall for some of her service but also in the Eastern Med. Palestine, Cyprus, Egypt.
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/Army_officers_Y01.html. - will give you a little about her and maybe a few others.
Good luck - I will keep my fingers crossed - wearing her ATS hat on Friday!
Colin
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Thanks for the book details Colin––I'll certainly do as you suggest and order these publications. I haven't done much family history work for a while: this might renew the obsession! And I'll be sure to look out for any mention of your aunt
Regards IAN
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I have seen mention of Girls in Khaki on ibooks for around £5
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Hi
I don't choose my books for the cheapest price - more for age and condition. Im sure that if you look on Abe books.co.uk you will find that one is available for less!
Colin
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Hello again
Did you find this?
https://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/military-sites/18824-spurn-2-a.html#.XrBeZC-ZNQI
Colin
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I looked at Spurn Point "derelict" stuff, great piccies.
But it mentions only anti-shipping coastal battery features. Confused me, my Mum (Muriel Wheeler) only ever spoke of AA batteries. I'm sure these are chalk and cheese specialities for gunners. Thinks; posting for cross training, or just as dogsbody, or?
I did more poking, found no historical reference to AA on Spurn ... except this wonderful little tidbit from 2002.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/33/a2801233.shtml
where an ATS lady describes her AA service ... and it seems they trained, operated and deployed as a mobile battery. I did not appreciate this! But it does make sense for AA units. Mum did talk of several sites and I imagined individual postings, but not the whole battery swanning about!
She further mentions - a "practice camp" at Spurn Point! And finally, in listing some remembered names - my late Mum. Plus another lady I remember Mum kept in touch with - Jean McMillan.
I think I can now make a good guess at Mum's unit - 497 (M)HAA
M for Mobile I assume, Heavy Anti Aircraft for sure.
No mention of Peggy Page, but I would expect several different mobile AA batteries would have been on and off Spurn over time, by the sounds of it.
Or perhaps the coastal gunners had ATS as well, maybe more likely for a lengthy posting. So far as I can find out, the coastal battery was manned by Royal Artillery as well, not a Navy or Marines outfit. Maybe it just seemed lengthy on that windswept sandbar :)
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Hi
I don't choose my books for the cheapest price - more for age and condition. Im sure that if you look on Abe books.co.uk you will find that one is available for less!
Colin
The one I mentioned was not a paper copy so ideal for anyone like me who wanted to read it rather than own it :)
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Thank you for this response, which is most helpful, even if it muddies the waters rather! I'm fairly sure (though after so many years I can't be certain) that Margaret / Peggy referred to her Spurn Point posting as AA. Search continues ...
Best wishes IAN