RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Leeroy_2 on Wednesday 27 March 13 11:28 GMT (UK)
-
*** ORIGINALLY POSTED IN ENGLAND IN ERROR *** APOLOGIES
Hi all,
Hoping I can get some information of where I could look to help with my Grandmother. I have been research for a couple of years now and done quite well on my paternal side..
The details are so,
My maternal grandmother was known as, Nellie McNally sometimes spelt Nelly. She was 43 when she had my mother in 1960. Unfortunately she passed away in 1972 - 41625/1972 - indexed as, Nelly McNally having never married. We understand her birth was, 14/02/1917.
There's a half brother, * born 1945. Both my Mother and her brother's birth certificate don't add to much information. Interestingly they both state she was born in Sydney, NSW with a varied age (couple of years out).
Information provided verbally via her indicate she was an orphan with it unknown exactly which orphanage.
Nil birth certificate have ever been located despite attempts. My mother's dad is confirmed as, Ormond Davidson b1918. They never married.
Any suggestions on where I could look would be most appreciated !!
Lee
-
Welcome to Rootschat :) I've removed the English topic so avoid any confusion and also taken out the details of Nelly's son since it looks as though he's still alive and Rootschat does have a strict 'no living people' policy which prhibits posting details of anyone who might still be living.
Nelly's birth certificate is probably the place to start as it should list her parents' names so you can start tracing back (if that's what you would like to do).
-
Hi
Looked at all the usual sources and no luck but have got a few suggestions for you to ponder on.
As she was an orphan could she be one of the ' home children' sent to Australia,there is a birth for an Eleanor McNally in 1915 in Tynemouth.
There is also an Eleanor McNally on the electoral records for NSW 1936 at Bellingen at Ford St,who looks like being married into a family of farmers which may be worth looking into farther.
Ciderdrinker
-
Hi ,me again
Just found a newspaper cutting on Trove which may be her.Kalgoorhe Miner newspaper?
21.7.1928 at the Christian Brother's Child Ball.
Nellie McNally is part of Mrs Wynne's ballet girls.
It was held at Kalgoorhe Town Hall and seems to be a list of children's groups.Not a lot of info but perhaps suggests she was already an orphan by then.Although of course it may not be her.
There is also a Kathleen McNally present who could be a sister?
Ciderdrinker
-
A link to Nellie McNally what Ciderdrinker was saying
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/34433514 (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/34433514)
-
I can think of a couple of reasons why Nellie was an orphan born circa 1917/19.
Possible loss of father in WW1 and then mother via the Influenza outbreak after the war or in childbirth or other accidental cause.
There are a few McNally deaths in the 14-18 war linking possibly one of them to your Nellie may be some sort of feat but could be achieved.
There are few marriages between 1900 and 1917 of McNally males (37) to be precise of these a few stand out. Reason: there are births to mother named McNally with no father listed in the same name of earlier marriages. This may be at least one way of finding a possible that will match a death of a Woman with the Surname McNally ???
I am not completely awake yet but I will see if I can develop this further with some help
Neil ;)
-
There is a death of a Nellie T McNally in 1925 at Bowraville and a 1912 marriage of;
FRANCIS J MCNALLY TO ELLEN RYALL AT BOWRAVILLE 1114/1912
This could be her birth
ELLEN RYALL FATHER MAURICE MOTHER MARY AT NAMBUCCA RIVER.
There are other births to this couple at Bowraville.
This above is only a possibility ::) But a start.
Neil
-
There is not a registered birth in 1915 to 1918 for NELLIE McNALLY (or variants Helen Ellen Nelly) in NSW.
I am happy to list the female births McNally in the period- when I have typing time- if they are of use or interest.
Sue
-
Hi,
P.M sent.
Leanne
-
Not wishing to complicate matters but :o
Births at Bowraville
CHARLES B MCNALLY FATHER JOHN MOTHER ELLIE AT BOWRAVILLE 21211/1905
There are a few coincidences which may add up to nothing but ::)
Sue could you check and see what RYALL births there are up 1918 ???
Neil ;)
-
I had just written a nice reply to all with warm thanks to all that posted. I just learnt the hard way that if you attempt to upload an attachment and it's too big you'll receive an error message and the text is not saved when it fails to upload..
Anyways, firstly, I apologise for not posting earlier, to be honest I did not expect to get much interest, I had previously posted on ancestry message board with nil replies.
Although I can not rule it out, I do not think she married, on both my mothers and her brothers birth certificate it states she never married. Although perhaps the Eleanor McNally is an option I should consider.
Also the Western Australian angle might be a consideration, although an assumption her reading and writing was very poor, I would assume if she was private schooled it would have been drummed into her to read and write. Although I might a birth search in W.A.
I do like the WW1 angle.. Is there an index to determine surnames of people passing away on service ? I'm aware of the the NAA website but I'm not sure if that allows you to search for persons.
There is a death of a Nellie T McNally in 1925 at Bowraville and a 1912 marriage of;
FRANCIS J MCNALLY TO ELLEN RYALL AT BOWRAVILLE 1114/1912
This could be her birth
ELLEN RYALL FATHER MAURICE MOTHER MARY AT NAMBUCCA RIVER.
There are other births to this couple at Bowraville.
This above is only a possibility ::) But a start.
Neil
I did find the marriage from 1912 - 1114/1912 and I found the birth for Ellen from Ellen McNally Nee Ryall 25549/1886 and then as you say the death for from 9263/1925.
So it's that death cert. from 1925 that might be of interest ? I would list her children wouldn't. I found a male birth I assume she had too for a Maurice P. McNally D191200224/1912.
-
There is a death of a Nellie T McNally in 1925 at Bowraville and a 1912 marriage of;
FRANCIS J MCNALLY TO ELLEN RYALL AT BOWRAVILLE 1114/1912
This could be her birth
ELLEN RYALL FATHER MAURICE MOTHER MARY AT NAMBUCCA RIVER.
Neil
Neil you ask for a listing of Ryall births to 1918.
There are 34 ::)
The following show the names you are interested in I think.
Pleased to search again if you have something specific in mind.
RYALL 1914. Mary M. Father Maurice. Mother Mary M. Glen Innes. 31996
RYALL. 1916. Ellen C.. Father Maurice. Mother Mary M. Glen Innes. 4318
RYALL 1916. Mary L. Father Francis J. Mother Mary J. Macksville 25810
RYALL. 1917. Laura.Father Francis J. Mother Mary J. Bowraville. 52926
Sue
-
Marriage
359/1954 MCNALLY MAURICE HODGES GLORIA FRANCES SYDNEY
Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name: Maurice Patrick Mcnally
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1943
State: New South Wales
District: Hume
Subdistrict: Harden
Maurice Patrick c.o Mrs Hickey Clarke Street Murrumburrah as a Porter
Name: Maurice Patrick McNally
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1949
State: New South Wales
District: Watson
Subdistrict: Kensington
Maurice Patrick was at 18 Adderson Street Kingsington as a Linesman
Name: Maurice Patrick McNally
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1958
State: New South Wales
District: New England
Subdistrict: Uralla
With him was Gloria Frances Derby Street Uralla
Name: Maurice Patrick McNally
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1963
State: New South Wales
District: New England
Subdistrict: Uralla
With him was Gloria Frances Derby Street Uralla
Name: Maurice Patrick McNally
Electoral Year: 1980
State: New South Wales
District: Lyne
Subdistrict: Wauchope
With him was Gloria Frances at 10 Range Street Wauchope
Born: 1913 Abt
MCNALLY Maurie
Funeral notice 01 AUG 1989
Death 76 late of Wauchope
Wauchope Gazette 03AUG1989
Name: Maurice Patrick McNally
Death: 1989
......................................
Births
25683/1900 MCNALLY ALICE M JOHN ELLEN RAYMOND TERRACE
15460/1903 MCNALLY NEIL F JOHN ELLEN RAYMOND TERRACE
31033/1908 MCNALLY NORMAN D JOHN J ELLEN WAVERLEY
23755/1911 MCNALLY EILEEN R JOHN ELLEN SYDNEY
D191200224/1912 MCNALLY MAURICE P FRANCIS J ELLEN
Deaths
9263/1925 MCNALLY NELLIE T FRANCIS J ELLEN BOWRAVILLE
19780/1979 MCNALLY NEIL FRANCIS JOHN ELLEN
40426/1973 MCNALLY NORMAN DESMOND JOHN ELLEN FAHEY WYONG
-
I think it is a maybe only but could be worth a few pennies to get a Proper Trancription. Trancriptions are cheaper and quicker and come via email.
The list of Accredited Transcription agents can be found on the resources section at top of this board. Make sure it is NSW resources.
Sue my thoughts on the Ryall births was that possibly she (Nellie) wasn't born to her husband Francis ??? But guessing only.
Neil
-
I'll order the death cert, 9263/1925 through Marilyn Rowan tomorrow, there's a special between 6am and 10am tomorrow for $16 full certificates.
I just wanted to post some envelopes received from Ormond Davidson whilst he was away serving in World War 2. One of the three letters is dated, 16th May, 1940. It lists Nellie's residence as 82 Blues Point Road, McMahon's Point, North Sydney. Interestingly enough and it's only just occurred from looking at these envelopes it appears to spell her surname, McNalley.
In an interesting spin, Ormond marries another female, Ivy May Bell Brown (Daughter of, James Brown and Sadie Howard) on the 11th March, 1943.
It's two years later Nellie has her first child to an unknown and then 15 years later her second my mother to Ormond Davidson where they remained together until she passed in 1972.
-
hi, can you please tell where the link between the cox's of Bowraville and the McNally's is. I don't have that link on my family tree
-
I can't see why you think there is a link stated in the above posts to 'Cox'.
Jamjar
-
sorry,
I've just started on this site and had been looking for information on the Cox family from Bowraville. the site I was scanning then included your family - I assume due to the link to Bowraville.
all the best
-
It certainly isn't my family. ;)
If you go to the first page, the first post will be by the person making the initial inquiry.
I would recommend that you take the time to read a complete thread before posting a comment.
Yes, I think if you did a non-specific search it will have picked up on the Bowraville
Jamjar
-
Good evening members, thank you to those from many years ago taking the time to reply to this thread. I am writing today, thanks to DNA (and some living relatives that DNA allowed us to be in contact with), to inform you we have answers.
My family search related to my late Grandmother, Nelly McNally’s life. We knew, from the account of my uncle and mother (her two children), that she grew up in an orphanage and had no recollection of her family. A tremendously sad set of circumstances for anyone and it brings me great thinking of the pain she must have experienced in her life.
Recently my mother and I undertook Ancestry DNA’s testing, which identified a living first cousin on our maternal side. We reached out to her and she told us the most incredible story.
My Grandmother was one of 7 children my Great Grandmother had, with 5 of those, including my mother, were born to an Aboriginal Father, John (or Jack) Bell from Blakney Creek area. All 7 carried the McNally name. Sadly 2 of the 7 (a boy & girl) were taken and placed into orphanages. At the time of writing it is unclear why and a mystery I am determined to solve.
In my earlier messages i explained the we did not have a birth certificate for Nelly. This has been explained, albeit a little romantic deceit of my Grandmother 😊 In speaking to my Mum’s cousin, identified through DNA, the girl taken from the family was born 1913 and since being taken has never been seen or heard from since; her name was Lillian (recorded on BDM as Lillia). I reviewed my detail as to how we concluded Nelly was born 1917, I realised this was only ever assumed from my mother’s birth certificate (which listed her age as 43 in 1960). We had birthday cards that listed her birthdate as 14th of February but these cards never listed an age. There didn’t appear to be any solid detail as to her age. I reached out to my uncle and found a ground breaking clue. My uncle’s birth certificate listed her age, in 1945, as 33 years of age (c. 1912 birth date). I considered my Grandfather, who was born in 1918. Could my Grandmother have lied about her age to appear young as a means of impressing him ? I pondered whether the 1913, was my grandmother. I wanted more detail.
Through the upgrade to NSW BDM search facility, I could search the database for an exact birthdate (month & date), I searched 14/02/1913, this confirmed a match for Lillian McNally; that she was born on the 14/02/1913. This to me, in combination with the above, was conclusive prove that my Grandmother was Lillian.
The story does include some mystery, why was her name changed ? I have reached out to AngliCare, who have suggested they have very little records from this era; a formal request has been submitted and I am awaiting their response. Was her name changed when she was put into the orphanage ? I have read this happened. Is this an intention of the orphanage to disguise her true identity. I hope not. Was she removed due to her Aboriginal heritage; I always hope not.
Today I found out her brother, Harold McNally (the boy) was put into an orphanage too. He was taken at the same time of Nelly/Lillian. A very sad set of circumstances.
Thank you again for your earlier replies, helping and reading the update. This is a happy & sad ending to a very special set of circumstances.
-
Lily and her older brother Donald (not Harold) were boarded out together in 1920, noted as neglected. Mary born 1899, the daughter of Patrick, was boarded out in 1912.
https://mhnsw.au/indexes/child-care-and-protection/dependent-children-registers/
Debra :)
-
Thank you for your response. I’ve obtained detail from DCJ re. the removed children. The details state Nellie (whose birth name we have determined to be Lillia @ Lily) was removed as her mother, (which was determined to be, Mary Jane McNALLY (nee CAMPBELL)) was of Immoral Character, as she had formed a de-facto relationship with an Aboriginal man, John BELL from Blakeney Creek (near Yass). Very disappointing, and something I wonder how hard this must have been for the then 7 year old Nellie/Lily.
Researchers, according to the DCJ paperwork, she was fostered to a family known only as Mrs. EVANS from Church Street, Cabramatta. In the 1920s, what Federal Electorate does Cabramatta fall under ? I am aware that it later becomes Fowler, but this is many years later in 1984.
-
Here's a longshot from electoral rolls at Church St, Cabramatta
1930, 1935, 1936
John Evans, railway employee
Lily May Evans, home duties
Perhaps this is her death - from Sydney, Australia, Anglican Parish Registers, Cabramatta Parish
Lily May Evans, occupation OAP,
address: 8 Acacia St, Cabramatta
Death Age 80, b abt 1880
Death Date 26 August 1960
Burial Date 29 Aug. 1960
Burial Place Rookwood Crematorium
Judith
-
Yes, it could be Judith.
They had a son who married when they were at Church street Cabramatta
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/76307432
His birth.
EVANS Leonard T
3209/1920
F. John
M.Lily M.
Sue
-
When I look at the Archives NSW record concerning Lily McNally I see 3 people to whom she was boarded out between 1920 and 1923
Mrs Shepherd of Bringally
Mrs L Douglas Webbs Creek Hawkesbury River
Eliz Lee, 20 Carringotn Street Balmain
Drummond House 1923
Perhaps Mrs Evans came later.
Sue
-
Good evening researchers. I really appreciate your help. She was in the care of Mrs. Evans from Church Street, Cabramatta from 27/12/1923 to her turning of age at 14/02/1931. At least that’s my interpretation of the attached document. I’ve since added the detail of Leonard T. Evans to my family tree (through the guardian connection). My intention now is to reach out to the Evans family. Perhaps they might have some photographs of Nellie/Lily when she was young.
It also clears up the name change from Lily to Nellie. I believe this might be due to Mrs. Evans first name being Lily. Likely to avoid the obvious confusion of having two Lily’s in one house 😊
-
I’ll attached it this time.
-
My intention now is to reach out to the Evans family. Perhaps they might have some photographs of Nellie/Lily when she was young.
Use the search box here https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/
Search as a guest and enter Leonard Trellisian Evans.
This will give you his digitised RAAF service record of Lily and John Evans' son, Len. It is very large, out of chronological order and contains blank pages etc. Plod through ;D.
It holds the names of his 2 children. Daughter born 1943 Son born 1944
This I believe is the death notice of the son. 2021. Age not given so cannot be be certain
https://www.mytributes.com.au/notice/death-notices/evans-lionel-patrick/5763350/
This is likely the daughter with a matching birth and death year.
YEOMANS Colleen Frances
10 JUNE 2012
Death age 69
Herald Sun (Melbourne) 12JUN2012
Leonard died
EVANS Leonard Trellisian
19 SEP 2014
Funeral
Age 93
Late of Glengara Village, formerly of Wamberal and Melbourne.
Central Coast Express Advocate
And SMH
17 SEP 2014
Mona died
EVANS Mona (Audrey)
23 FEB 2008
aged 87
At Gosford Hospital, late of Glengara Village, formerly of Caringbah and Wamberal
Central Coast Express Advocate
27 FEB 2008
Sue
-
Adding:
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/tributes/notice/death-notices/yeomans-colleen-frances/3899921/
YEOMANS, Colleen Frances
YEOMANS. - Colleen Frances. 11.01.1943 - 10.06.2012 Dearly loved daughter of Len and Mona (dec.), loving sister of Lionel. Cherished mother of …
Funeral notice: https://www.mytributes.com.au/notice/funeral-notices/yeomans-colleen-frances/3907526/
Palmdale Lawn Cemetery & Memorial Park
Mona Audrey Bradbury Evans https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/222186296/mona-audrey-evans
Leonard Trellision “Len” Evans https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/222186033/leonard-trellision-evans
https://tributes.smh.com.au/obituaries/109742/leonard-evans/
EVANS, Leonard.
5.12.1920 - 14.9.2014
Passed away peacefully at Magnolia Manor, Central Coast NSW.
Dearly loved husband of Mona (dec). Much loved father of Colleen (dec) and Lionel. Father-in-law to …
-
That's good CoL.
I fear that even if the children of Colleen and Lionel could be located, the memories of the 1920's held by their grandfather regarding Nelly, might have been lost to all.
Sue
-
Evening CoL & Sue,
I am so grateful for your efforts. The dedication you have shown is so special.
Sue, I do worry about what memory or knowledge that is retained, it’s also hard for me to measure how many other children the EVANS may have housed, which may also affect any recount. Their grandchildren, which is now our only hope, may & just may retain photographs. I only have a handful of B&W photographs of Nellie. If I was able to locate just one photograph; it would be worth my effort. Lee
-
Hi Leeroy,
I am about to send you a Rootschat Private Message.
Just to give you a possible contact for a descendant. May or may not.....
Anyhow, in my opinion and experience, there is nothing to be lost by making contact.
Sue
-
Morning Sue, message received, email sent. I really appreciate your effort !
Lee
-
I'm sure many here will be glad to hear the outcome. ;D
Sue