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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: fonners on Monday 25 March 13 21:57 GMT (UK)
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Have been trying to tie this loose end for years. I have the Parish Record for the birth of John Sommerville in Carnwath in 1812. From the OPR I know his parents were John Somerville and Mary Watson. I have been able to take Mary's line back a couple of generations further but absolutely nothing of John Somervilles. I have tries various sites and methods but nothing. Using the old Scottish naming convention I did find a couple of 'possibilities but nothing confirmed. The 'possibilities' are a James and Barbara Somerville and a John and Janet Somerville. There are a few discrepancies with both sets of possible parents though. There have been several people over the years that have tried this line but none have gotten past John Somerville and Mary Watson. One person even went to Carnwath and went thru the records there without luck. There are several tantalizing pieces that seem to tie them to Ampherlaw House but again nothing absolute. One of the researchers has some old family notes that saw that John and Mary's oldest, daughter named Agnes Somerville who married William Steele, was able to live at Jenna Field Farm because of her relation to the owner.
We know that John and Mary had the following children: Agnes Somerville born August 3, 1801 died (at sea) August 7, 1856; James H (possibly) Somerville born October 30, 1803 died unknown at this time; John Watson Somerville born October 5, 1805 died in possibly Linlithgow on January 24, 1812; William Sommerville born April 17, 1807 died in Carnwath August 25, 1873; Barbara Somerville born December 2, 1809, she married William Chalmers date of death unknown at this time; John Sommerville born July 11, 1812 immigrated to America and died January 17, 1894 in Nebraska; James Somerville born January 15, 1816 and died December 31, 1894 in Blantyre Scotland; Robert Somerville born Junje 22, 1817 date of death unknown at this time and Isabela Somerville born July 18, 1819 she married James Bryce and died in 1851.
What I have on John Sommerville is this:
He immigrated to America, arriving in New York on August 29, 1832. On board the ship was a Janet Armstrong age 18. She and John went on to marry and have several children before her death in 1860. John remarried, Sophia Zabel, and they have several children before he died in Nebraska in 1894.
Welcome any advice or information that would help me go back farther on John Somerville and Mary Watson.
Bob
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Did the marriage record for John and Mary Watson give any addresses?
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Unfortunately I have never been able to find a marriage OPR for them. I have birth OPR's of all their children, even have the birth OPR for Mary (born Carnwath November 6 and Baptized November 19, 1780) but never have found any marriage record. Have looked in the OPR's even looked in the Catholic records, all at Scotland's People, but no go. If John was in the same age range as most first time father at the time he would have been born about 1770 to 1780. The first child (Agnes) of John and Mary was born August 3 and Baptized August 9, 1801.
There is some recent information that Agnes and her husband, William Steele who lived at Jennafield farm during the mid 1800's, were only able to live there since she had some type of family connection to the family that owned Ampherlaw House. Also there is documentation on Wikipedia that the family that owned and ran Ampherlaw House were 'Cadets' to the line of Lord Somerville. The family that owned Ampherlaw House were descended from a younger brother, someone not in the line for the Lord title, of a Lord Somerville.
So far that information is just family information that was passed down. No out=side proof either way has been found. It is nice to note though that so far that sources family information has been spot on with what they have provided. Trying now to see how I can track the dependency down backwards. The line of the Lord's Somerville is fairly well documented but not too much on other members of the family.
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How did you establish that the Mary (born Carnwath November 6 and Baptized November 19, 1780) was the right Mary?
Somerville (sp) is a common name in the Carnwath area and Watson is fairly common.
Have you checked Carnwath death records for John and Mary?
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I do have the death record for Mary. There is some issues with it though. It is definitely the 'correct' Mary. It lists her father and mother as John Watson and Agnes Hastie, that is correct. It lists the informant as William Chalmers, Mary's son-in-law, that is correct. The part that is really odd is that it states that Mary was the widow of William Somerville. William is identified as a deceased farm servant. Other information from earlier sources had John as a weaver rather than a farm servant. Also, I wonder where this 'William' came from. All of the birth OPR's have John and Mary, not William and Mary. This death record lists her death as at Throughburn which checks.
I have what I suspect is the correct death record for John. It gives a date and lists that he died of old age. That is all the info.
Nothing has been found on 'William'
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When and where did Mary die? Do you have her with John on any census records?
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What I have on Mary's death:
She died on January 19, 1865 at Throughburn in the Parish of Carnwath. She was 87 years old. All of this does track with other information on her.
She and John were never seen on any census, or at least I have never seen them on one. Mary has shown on various census returns living either with one of their children or by herself and grandchildren.
I think that John had died in the 1840's but could not be identified for sure on the 1841 census.
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If John died pre 1841 census then it is understandable that a son-in-law could have got his name wrong. Do any on the children's Baptisms give John's occupation?
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The John Somerville I think is correct died in Carnwath on September 20, 1845 at the age of 78. His age would be about right. He and Mary's first child, Agnes, was born August 3 1801 and baptized on August 9, 1801 in Carnwath and their last child, Isabel, was born July 15, 1819 and baptized July 26 1819 in Carnwath.
None of the Birth/Baptism OPR's have the fathers occupation.
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Using the Scottish naming tradition it would appear that his parents were called James and Barbara but there is not enough information to give his birthplace as he may have came from a surrounding village and only married in Carnwath.
Have you checked the pre 1855 M.I.s for Carnwath?
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Idid check via the naming convention and came up with two possible sets of parents for John. A James and Barbara and a John ans Janet. Searching ScotlandsPeople I found that there are similarities with both sets but also some obvious looking differences with both. There is a very interesting set of James Sommerville and Barbara Sommerville. They had four children that were baptized between 1770 and 1778. Three were in Carnwath and one in Aberdeen. They had a son named John that was baptized in Aberdeen on March 23, 1776. That might fit but isn't the distance between the sites a little too far for 'normal'? That is about the best I have found. I have checked and again I find no OPR for the marriage of James and Barbara.
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That is the problem with pre 1855 records. Not all events were recorded and some of those that were recorded have not survived.
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I have been trying to find Somerville's of Carnwath in my search for a long time too. Also have a link with Watson there as well. I have a Catherine Somerville b 5th March 1809 in Carnwath married Andrew Watson. The family folklore suggested that she married beneath her and was cut off from her family. It was also believed she was linked to a Lord Somerville.
Any link would be appreciated.
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yes, the Somervilles / Sommervilles / and a lot more variations are truly an interpreting family. From what little bit I have been able to dug up and from conversations with some family members it does appear that our branch of the family (John) is a younger brother in a large family. I know that the original de Somerville was one of the knights that came over with William the Conqueror. The family then split up with part going to Ireland, Part to Scotland and the rest stayed in England. John and Mary's oldest daughter and her husband and family live for awhile in Westsidewood which is a part of the old Somerville property. I got from a family member that it was because of her family connection they were able to live there. From what I found it would appear that the family had s problem with drinking... the were supposed to have lost the lordship because of their drinking...