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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Feebees21 on Sunday 24 March 13 06:39 GMT (UK)
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Walter (could be Walther) Smith born Golubinza 1847
Arrived NZ ? but was there definitely 1892 Married Mary Peterson born 1871Denmark they were married 2nd Jan 1892 Napier I have marriage cert (But at moment have moved and it is filed under l for lost misplaced but here somewhere) He was the much older man and one with a temper
Walter was a sea captain and did have a vessel called Orpheus not one that had major loss of life
His father was Nicholas and was a farmer
Mother Frances Sestanvich
( do not know if there were other siblings (all my "wonderful oldies" ) are no longer with me
Her father was James Peterson
Her mother was Elizabeth (no surname)
I have all issue from these two
But wanting to know more about them
He was jailed in NZ for 5years for attempted murder of his wife Mary and a botched suicide (Papers Past) 1901 but from there I can find no more info except that Mary's only son Louis Archibald put down his address as Alfred Street Onehunga
Sorry if this is out of order or messy new appreciate any advice Thank you
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Hi Feebees and welcome
Do you have all three of Walter and Mary's children?
1893/10766 Smith Elizabeth Frances / Mary /Walter
1895/14998 Smith Flora Livia Lily / Mary/ Walter
1897/5106 Smith Louis Archibald / Mary/ Walter
Cheers Janette
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Marriage for
1923/8237 Elizabeth Frances Smith to John Maurice O'Connell
Cheers Janette
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Have you seen the online military records for Louis?
His mother is noted as next of kin and as you stated living at Alfred Street.
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His military file has been digitised which you can download.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fdf/
Cheers
KHP
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Hello,
I see that you have the name of CRISP in your subject heading. Could you tell us where this fits into the story please? Or maybe I have just missed it?
Minniehaha. :)
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Walter Smith
Arrived NZ ?
Hello...
In one of the PapersPast articles Captain SMITH mentions that he's been sailing in NZ waters since 1858. So he arrived at least 35 years before his marriage.
PapersPast
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t96/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t96/)
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Walter was a sea captain
There's a Walter SMITH in the A to J's who may be worth looking at.
Scroll down to page 16 of the following link...
1887 Session II - H-04 Marine Department - Annual Report for 1886-87
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t97/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t97/)
I think it corresponds to Certificate No.345 of the following volume held at Archives NZ in Wellington.
Certificates of Competency - Master - Ordinary - 1885-1888
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557083 (http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557083)
If it is the right Walter SMITH the certificate will have his date of birth. Also his place of birth but you already know that. Once you have a date and place of birth you can then start searching Austrian birth records. Hopefully Walter SMITH is an anglicised version of his original name.
If you can't get to Wellington you could always start a look-up request thread. Some kind soul will visit Wellington Archives on your behalf, take front and back photos of the certificate, then email them to you.
Here's an example of a look-up request thread...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=615282.0 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=615282.0)
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Also you may (or may not) want to mention that there is a Certificate issued in 1884 to "Only Mate Walter SMITH". Bit suspicious of that as only three years later he's a Master. Also suspicious is the fact that it has the same certificate number as the Master certificate, namely No.345
Scroll down to page 12 of the following link...
1884 Session II - H-06 Annual Report of the Marine Department - 1886-87
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t98/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t98/)
...and here's the corresponding volume at Archives NZ
Certificates of Competency - Only mate - 1884-1890
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557120 (http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557120)
Your call :)
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Mary Peterson born 1871 Denmark
Her father was James Peterson
Her mother was Elizabeth (no surname)
Don't suppose you know where in Denmark Mary was born. Danish Archives are really informative once you get going but to get going with any certainty you tend to need a location.
Must admit that it's unlikely that Mary, James and Elizabeth were their original names.
Regards
Beg
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Hi Fee Bee,
Have responded to your PM by PM.
Minniehaha. :)
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Hi Fee Bee,
Me too :)
Regards
Beg
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And me ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Hi again...
A Walter SMITH, Master Mariner was naturalised in 1891.
NZ Gazette - p.530
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t9d/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t9d/)
Archives NZ in Wellington should hold a copy of his Certificate of Citizenship. This isn't all that helpful as it just mentions his name and the fact that he is now one of us.
What's of interest is that to apply for citizenship he had to submit an "application for naturalisation, usually giving name, age, birthplace, residence, occupation and length of residence in New Zealand. The application was considered by government officials and ratified by the minister."
Archives New Zealand Research Guides - Citizenship
http://archives.govt.nz/research/guides/citizenship (http://archives.govt.nz/research/guides/citizenship)
A copy of his Certificate of Citizenship should be easy enough to obtain but, more importantly, looking for his Certificate of Citizenship will tell you whether or not his application for naturalisation still exists.
The first step is to view the following index held at Wellington Archives. This will hopefully point to both the certificate and the application....
Miscellaneous - Register of Persons Naturalised in New Zealand before 1948
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=20964595 (http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=20964595)
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It would be really handy if Mary applied for naturalisation before she married Walter. Her application for naturalisation would hold a lot of info as yet unknown.
I know that when a husband was naturalised his wife was did not have to apply as she was automatically given citizenship. But as Walter was naturalised in 1891 and the marriage wasn't until 1892 I'm not sure if Mary needed to apply separately, assuming she wanted citizenship.
Hopefully some can advise.
I guess the first step is to check ancestry for naturalisation applications for a Mary PETERSON pre-1892 and a Mary SMITH post-1892.
Regards
Beg
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Again what can I say but thank you
:D
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Walter (could be Walther) Smith born Golubinza 1847
Hi Feebees21
I searched for Golubinza, but the nearest I could find was "Golubinci" (a villiage in Serbia ??) ;D
The following is the 1891 Naturalisation record (index listing) for a Walter SMITH at Auckland.
[The birth year is at odds with the year you have given ?? ... however name and occupation are the same. ]
Walter SMITH
Born about 1838
Age : 53 years
Born : Trieste, Italy
Former Nationality : Austrian
Occupation : Master Mariner Resident at : Auckland
Naturalisation Date : 7 May 1891
File # 1890/3500
Certificate Reg. # 28 / page # 141
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~ Lu
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Couldn't see a Naturalisation record for a Mary PETERSON / PETERSON or SMITH :
~ Lu
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I searched for Golubinza, but the nearest I could find was "Golubinci" (a villiage in Serbia ??)
Hello Lucy...
Thank you for looking up the naturalisation record.
Google found the following at CousinsConnect.
Website seems a bit shaky so I'll copy and paste it...
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2004
Surname(s): PETERSON : SMITH
Query Text: Walter Smith Master Mariner born 1838 Golubinza Austria married Mary Petersen born 1872 Denmark at Catholic church Port Ahurri New Zealand 2nd January 1892 by Father Micahel Grogan with Charles Dolbel and Jane Shanehen as witnesses
His parents were Frances Sestanvich and Nicholas Smith(I believe this may have been anglicised) Her parents were Elizabeth (surname unkown) and James Petersen.
Walter and Mary met on the ship going to NZ
They had 3 children Frances , Florence Lily and Archibald who went missing apprx 1914
Walter and Mary met on the ship going to NZ
Walter was in NZ waters in 1858, at least ten years before Mary was born. So either that story is wrong or it's a different couple.
Or maybe Walter was a crewman on the ship...
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Born : 1838, Trieste, Italy
Former Nationality : Austrian
Google says that Trieste was part of the Austrian Empire from 1813 until 1918. Then reverted to Italy post-WW1.
Trieste seems to have fairly good genealogy resources/websites. Guess the date of birth on the Master Mariner certificate is well worth finding.
Regards
Beg
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Walter SMITH / Mary PETERSON :
Some recent posts in another forum - Walter's y.o.b. stated as 1838.
Same /or another, researcher ??
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Hi again...
Most likely their cemetery records...
1918 minus 80 = 1838
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Waikumete Cemetery
http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/cemeterydetails.aspx?id=78774 (http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/cemeterydetails.aspx?id=78774)
SMITH, WALTER
Plot: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIVISION B Row 3, Plot 99
Interment Type: Burial
Title: MR
Surname: SMITH
Given Names: WALTER
Age: 80
Gender: Male
Occupation: SEAMAN
Date Of Death : 25-Aug-1918
Date Of Cremation : N/A
Date Of Burial : 27-Aug-1918
Funeral Director : TJ MCIVOR
Head Stone Details : N/A
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Waikaraka Cemetery, Auckland
Name : SMITH, MARY
Details: F:
Died: 05-09-1942
Aged: 71
Place: Waikaraka
Location: Area 1 Block EXT Lot No 40A
Remarks: Transcribed inscription reads " In loving memory of our dear mother Mary Smith died 5 Sept 1942 aged 71 years. Rest in Peace"
PapersPast
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t9e/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t9e/)
Regards
Beg
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I am pretty sure that the NZSG auckland hold the records for T J McIvor,it may be worth contacting them.
Cheers Janette
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I am pretty sure that the NZSG auckland hold the records for T J McIvor
Cheers Janette
Yes, they do, and I think also the Main Libraries hold copies.
Cheers
KHP
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The Auckland library's cemetery records make reference to "The N.Z. Society of Genealogists' T.J. McIvor Collection at the Family Research Centre Library, Panmure"
Cheers Janette
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Was just going by the info that is for further enquiries under T J McIvor :P
Cheers
KHP
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Louis Archibald, who went missing
Hi again...
Two listings for a Louis Archibald SMITH on the Australian WW2 nominal roll.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=669199 (http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=669199)
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=719484 (http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=719484)
Both records are listed at the National Archives of Australia.
Not sure how you go about viewing them.
National Archives of Australia (click on "Begin Your Search")
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx (http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx)
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Possible death
1962 - 946/6868 SMITH, Louis Archibald - Pirie
South Australia BMD
http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html (http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html)
Port Pirie cemetery search
http://www.pirie.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?c=81820 (http://www.pirie.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?c=81820)
Genealogy South Australia - more info
http://www.genealogysa.org.au/more-info.html (http://www.genealogysa.org.au/more-info.html)
Regards
Beg
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Those files show
SMITH LOUIS ARCHIBALD : Service Number - S212337 : Date of birth - 14 Feb 1897 : Place of birth - NAPIER NEW ZEALAND : Place of enlistment - ADELAIDE SA : Next of Kin - GARDNER E
SMITH LOUIS ARCHIBALD : Service Number - SX5659 : Date of birth - 14 Feb 1901 : Place of birth - NAPIER NEW ZEALAND : Place of enlistment - ADELAIDE SA : Next of Kin - Unknown
2 dfferent numbers for him and 2 different birth dates
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette...
The enlist/discharge dates are consecutive (near as) so I'd say it's the same person, even with different birthdates and serial numbers.
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Mentioned in Trove
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article96244017 (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article96244017)
Regards
Beg
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Hi Feebee,
PM sent in response to your PM re Crisp............
Minniehaha. :)
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Hi Feebee,
It might be better if you put your requests here rather than sending them by PM so we can all try and help you,we have some great researchers who think outside the square. ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Hi Feebee,
It might be better if you put your requests here rather than sending them by PM so we can all try and help you,we have some great researchers who think outside the square. ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
Hi Feebee,
It also helps if other researchers are searching and come across the name Crisp, and it could just be that they might have answers to your brick walls.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Feebee,
It might be better if you put your requests here rather than sending them by PM so we can all try and help you,we have some great researchers who think outside the square. ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
Hi Feebee,
It also helps if other researchers are searching and come across the name Crisp, and it could just be that they might have answers to your brick walls.
Cheers
KHP
Hope I have done this correctly we shall see won't we
Yes you are correct Janette I worked out their birth dates by age of marriage But on the marriage cert it says Thomas Benjamin Mothers maiden name as Mary Carleton re being related as I think it was 4 in the morning (no won't go on with the words of that song) I may not have been thinking straight (bad night sleeping)cause on reflection not sure what I meant either so forgive me please as for living Crisps my aunt and Uncle had so many I can not remember their surnames as 8 of them were girls. cheers a fairly awake Fee Bee
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Those files show
SMITH LOUIS ARCHIBALD : Service Number - S212337 : Date of birth - 14 Feb 1897 : Place of birth - NAPIER NEW ZEALAND : Place of enlistment - ADELAIDE SA : Next of Kin - GARDNER E
SMITH LOUIS ARCHIBALD : Service Number - SX5659 : Date of birth - 14 Feb 1901 : Place of birth - NAPIER NEW ZEALAND : Place of enlistment - ADELAIDE SA : Next of Kin - Unknown
2 dfferent numbers for him and 2 different birth dates
Cheers Janette
I have all of Louis Archibald's Smiths military records Serial no 79093 Expeditionary Force 42nd Reinforcements A company and have forwarded a copy to a friend who is in the army to decipher it but get the feeling that he was a wee bit of a lad with the ladies he joined twice once under age and was discharged then went back when he was of the correct age he did disembark in England 1st August 1918 vessel Tofu HMNZT 109 He returned to NZ but from there I have an undecipherable address again hoping to get that so we can read it clearly but from that moment on he seems to have fallen off the radar. His previous occupation before he joined was a marine fireman. cheers Fee bee
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Feebee,
He turned up in Adelaide during WW2
Cheers Janette
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Louis Archibald, who went missing
Hi again...
Two listings for a Louis Archibald SMITH on the Australian WW2 nominal roll.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=669199 (http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=669199)
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=719484 (http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=719484)
Both records are listed at the National Archives of Australia.
Not sure how you go about viewing them.
National Archives of Australia (click on "Begin Your Search")
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx (http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx)
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Possible death
1962 - 946/6868 SMITH, Louis Archibald - Pirie
South Australia BMD
http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html (http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html)
Port Pirie cemetery search
http://www.pirie.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?c=81820 (http://www.pirie.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?c=81820)
Genealogy South Australia - more info
http://www.genealogysa.org.au/more-info.html (http://www.genealogysa.org.au/more-info.html)
Regards
Beg
I am heading my self up towards Canberra very soon and making application to sight records to see if this is him oh boy if it is how exciting but how sad that we did not know he was here My Nana Florence Lily longed to see him just once more ;D ;D
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Those files show
SMITH LOUIS ARCHIBALD : Service Number - S212337 : Date of birth - 14 Feb 1897 : Place of birth - NAPIER NEW ZEALAND : Place of enlistment - ADELAIDE SA : Next of Kin - GARDNER E
SMITH LOUIS ARCHIBALD : Service Number - SX5659 : Date of birth - 14 Feb 1901 : Place of birth - NAPIER NEW ZEALAND : Place of enlistment - ADELAIDE SA : Next of Kin - Unknown
2 different numbers for him and 2 different birth dates
I think I may know why he enlisted twice and was discharged quite quickly he had on his WW1 records that he had some sort of respiratory problem (can not decipher writing) he did the same thing in WW1 as in WW2 anyway when I get to Canberra which now will not be until after my month in NZ I shall find out all to all thank you so much
Cheers Janette
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I think I may know why he enlisted twice and was discharged quite quickly he had on his WW1 records that he had some sort of respiratory problem (can not decipher writing) he did the same thing in WW1 as in WW2 anyway when I get to Canberra which now will not be until after my month in NZ I shall find out all to all thank you so much
In his WW1 file in answer to the question
"Have you ever been absent from work through ill health or accident" he replied
3 years ago off 3 weeks,rheumatism + since
The doctor's comment was
Stiff joints,subject to rheumatism.
Cheers Janette
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Thank you my copy is just not that good you are a true treasure
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Not the easiest site to get round when you are new,you will get the hang of if in the end ;D ;D ;D
Cheers janette