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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Jennyoz on Saturday 23 March 13 05:29 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for any information on Donald McGowan or McGown who was born in, or around, 1801. I have limited information from a 1851 and 1861 Census, but cannot find details of who lived in the household. It lists him as being in the County of Argyllshire. If anyone knows of any information, or links which can assist me, I would really appreciate it.
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Hi Jennyoz
Where are these 1851 and 1861 census entries you have for him from?
There is this entry for example from the transcripts for 1861:
Daniel McGown, Cast Wright b. Killarow, Argyll
Address: Frederick St, Kildalton Argyll
Looks like this Daniel was living by himself. The best way to check on these details is to look at the original image of the censuses on the pay to view site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Daniel and Donald are variants, see www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=daniel
Monica :)
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Hi Jenny,
Do you have any more information you can give regarding Donald McGowan/McGown. I've had a quick look on a website called www.freecen.org.uk which has most of Scotland's 1841 and 1851 Census transcribed and available to search for free (clue 's in the name of the site ;D), but unfortunately I've had no joy in finding him.
I also used www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk which is a pay to view site. 30 credits are purchased for £7.00 but beware you can blow your credits quicker than "snaw aff a dyke" (that means they can disappear quicker than snow off a fence in case I've confused you!). So it's best to be fairly certain of your facts before viewing images.
I have no credits left at the moment but was able to do a search just to find out how many McGowans/McGown there were on the Censuses in Argyll and to be honest there were not a lot of them . Only 38 people with the names in 1861, 25 in 1851 and 13 in 1841.
The name was much more prevalent in other areas of Scotland.
There is a marriage on www.familysearch.org of a Donald McGown to an Effy Campbell 18 Feb 1824 at Kidalton, Argyllshire but at this stage this is grasping at straws. :-\
So if you have any more info please post it ,
Cheers
Looby
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Hi Monica / Looby
Think they are from the IGI/familysearch.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VYYW-V2V
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VB7R-GYL
ev
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Ah, were these references from here:
1851 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VYYW-V2V - can't easily see this on the transcripts. You could try on Scotlands People on the link above.
1861 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VB7R-GYL - will be the entry above likely.
Monica
Added: sorry Ev, missed the red flags!
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From Jennyoz's second post it may link to a John Mcgowan but we really need more information :-\
ev
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Hi all,
Keying in Donald McGowan/McGown in 1851 Census in Argyll comes up with no matches! Can't think of any other spelling of the surname to try. In fact there are no hits for either name in the whole of Scotland.
There is however a Donald McGown , Kidalton, Argyll in 1861.
As for 1841 no-one with either name in Argyll but 2 McGowan and 1 McGown elsewhere.
looby
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Hi Looby, Monica, and Ev,
Firstly thank you for your help and time. Unfortunately I have little to no information. My great grandfather was John McGowan, and I have a lot of information on him. His father, Dugald (sometimes spelt Dougald), came out to Australia in 1856, and his wife and child followed in 1857. I have found quite a bit of information on the family, except for Dugald. I know he was born c. 1824, and I am led to believe , that he may have died on 4 June, 1879, in Queensland, Australia, in a place called Cooktown. There is a death for a Dougald McGowan there. He is the only one I have found in Australia's Births, Deaths and Marriages registry. His parents are listed as Donald McGowan and Margery McGowan. I got this bit of information off the QLD Births, Deaths and Marriages site. I have tried to search for a Donald McGowan and Margery McGowan. I looked on a few sites including "Familysearch.org" and the links that you have provided. I also looked on www.findmypast.com.au and "Find a grave"and found this link-
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=McGown&GSfn=Donald&GSby=1795&GSbyrel=in&GSdy=1865&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=88932781&df=all&
In case the link does not work for some reason, the information on here was:
Donald McGown
Birth: 1795
Death: Aug. 13, 1865
Burial: Kildalton Cemetery
Isle of Islay
Argyll and Bute, Scotland
Created by: ProgBase
Record added: Apr 21, 2012
Find A Grave Memorial# 88932781
As Dugald McGowan's surname was sometimes spelt without the "a", as in McGown, on some of his children's birth and death certificates, I believe that it may have originally not had the "a".
I am probably looking for a needle in a haystack here, but I guess what I really want to try and find is information which links Donald and Margery McGowan/McGown to Dugald McGowan/McGown.
Ev, just wondered from your post if you are looking for a John McGowan? This was my great granfathers name, and I have done a lot of research on him and have a lot of information. Let me know, so we can see, if by chance, I can be of help.
Cheers,
Jenny
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Have you tried searching for Dougald in the earlier Scottish censuses?
Have to say, there are really not may options showing. The main entry showing in 1851, for example, is this one:
Dugald Mcgown 38 shoemaker b. Ireland
Margaret Mcgown 22 b. Ireland
Daniel Mcgown 1 Month b. Glasgow
Bridget Cairney 40, lodger, sick nurse b. Ireland
Address: 36 Bridgegate St, Glasgow
Why do you think your Dugald originated from the Argyll area?
What was the name of his wife? The shipping entry that you have in 1857, what were the details? John who you are researching was born once the family were in Australia?
Monica :)
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There is an online tree which shows a John McGowan (b. 1869 - 1910) to a Dugald (b. 1813 -?) and a Margaret Toner (1828 – 1905). Twelve children show for this couple. Is this your family?
The last child showing for this couple is showing as Sydney McGowan 1875-76 in Moyston Victoria.
Margaret Toner's parents showing as a Charles Toner and Elizabeth McNeill. Her death on 1 Nov 1905 in Stawell, Victoria.
Also saw this www.familytreecircles.com/looking-for-mcgowans-of-moyston-victoria-australia-30603.html (is this your link with the name ref.?). Also, www.familytreecircles.com/children-of-dougal-mcgowan-and-margaret-toner-32878.html
Monica
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Hi Monica,
I believe that the 1851 census information is my relatives, as I have solid information that Dugald was a shoemaker when he came to Australia. The link that you mention is one which I put, yes. You mention a family tree. Is that a seperate link to the "familysearch" link that you have on your post? If so, I would be interested to look at this tree. I know that Dugald and Margaret had a son, Daniel, whilst in Scotland, but I think he must have died at about 1 year of age. I have records of Dugald travelling out to Australia about 15 months before his wife travelled out with their next child Charlotte (who was 3yrs at the time). I have been able to trace most of the family's movements until their deaths, except for Dugald. Although I do have some information on him, and a court case he was involved in, and all the comments he made during it. I would love to find solid information on Dugald and Margarets parents. Margaret McGowans maiden name was McNeil, and her mother was Elizabeth, and her father was Charles Toner, though I cannot find them anywhere.
Cheers,
Jenny
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If this is the family in 1851, then surely we are looking at Irish connections for both Dugald and wife Margaret?:
Dugald Mcgown 38 shoemaker b. Ireland
Margaret Mcgown 22 b. Ireland
Daniel Mcgown 1 Month b. Glasgow
Bridget Cairney 40, lodger, sick nurse b. Ireland
Address: 36 Bridgegate St, Glasgow
Why do you think your Dugald originated from the Argyll area?....
Found this entry in 1851 which I wondered whether there may be a connection to Margaret's family - as transcribed with corrections for the surname to Tonner?
Charlis Fonner 65 Plasterer Labourer, b. Ireland
Esabella Fonner 52 b. Ireland
Janos Fonner 19 Plasterer Apprentice b. Kilmarnock
William Fonner 17 b. Kilmarnock
Elisebeth Fonner 13 b. Kilmarnock
Jean Fonner 11 b. Kilmarnock
Address: Mcmillins Land No 3, Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
Unfortunately, can't see a Margaret with this household in Kilmarnock in 1841.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Thank you so much for all your help. I think that Dugald was born in Ireland, but later lived in Scotland. I have the death certificate of Margaret McGowan, and it states that she was born in Glasgow. It also says this in a related newspaper memorial of her death. Perhaps they just put Ireland on the census or it was assumed that she was born there if it had been left blank. I guess my best option is to try and find a Dugald in Ireland who's parents were Donald and Margery. And a Margaret Toner in Scotland. Though I have not as yet been able to find a Margaret with parents listed as Charles Toner and Margaret (nee McNeil) in Scotland.
Cheers,
Jenny
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Jenny
I am going to move this post over to the Lanarkshire board. The main events you have so far are there, including potentially Margaret's birth in Glasgow.
Hi Monica,
Though I have not as yet been able to find a Margaret with parents listed as Charles Toner and Margaret (nee McNeil) in Scotland.
Elizabeth McNeil or Margaret McNeil for your Margaret's mother?
I saw this entry in 1841:
Charles Toner 40
Betsy Toner 35
Edward Toner 10
Archd Toner 7
Jane Toner 5
Address: Main Street, Barony St Lukes, Lanarkshire
Can't see this on FreeCen www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl to confirm the details from another transcript. Charles' occupation above simply shows as 'Sho'. All the family from Ireland....sadly also, no Margaret in the group.
Monica
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Jenny
I am going to move this post over to the Lanarkshire board. The main events you have so far are there, including potentially Margaret's birth in Glasgow.
Hi Monica,
Though I have not as yet been able to find a Margaret with parents listed as Charles Toner and Margaret (nee McNeil) in Scotland.
Elizabeth McNeil or Margaret McNeil for your Margaret's mother?
I saw this entry in 1841:
Charles Toner 40
Betsy Toner 35
Edward Toner 10
Archd Toner 7
Jane Toner 5
Address: Main Street, Barony St Lukes, Lanarkshire
Can't see this on FreeCen www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl to confirm the details from another transcript. Charles' occupation above simply shows as 'Sho'. All the family from Ireland....sadly also, no Margaret in the group.
Monica
Hi all,
Had a quick scout at all the 40 year old Charleses in Lanarkshire 1841 census on Freecen website (nothing better to do this morning ;D) and found the family listed above by Monica transcribed as Jones ??? not Toner. The occupation of Charles Jones being shopman.
So are they Jones or Toner..... ::) ?? More mystery!
Cheers,
Looby
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Well done for finding them, Looby :)
The problem though, is couldn't see a Margaret with them. She would have been c. 12/13 for the 1841 census?
Monica
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Yes - there was no Margaret listed. :(
I suspect Margaret was born in Ireland. If the couple listed on the 1851 Census - Dugald and Margaret McGown - are indeed the couple being researched by Jenny I would tend to believe the birthplace of Ireland for both to be correct. By the time of Margaret's death in Australia it could be there was no one left who remembered she had originally been Irish.
The names of McGowan/MCGown/Toner don't seem to have been that common in Scotland at this time and most of the people with them seem to be of Irish birth.
Of course Margaret could have came over the water with her entire family as a child but perhaps she and Dugald married in Ireland and came to Glasgow as a couple. I also wonder if the lodger Bridget Cairney is related?? Maybe not :-\
Has Jenny found any birth record for either Daniel or Charlotte McGown/McGowan?
Cheers,
Lobby
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Both births for Daniel and Charlotte pre 1855. I can't see their entries on SP/family search unfortunately.
Monica
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Young Daniel died in 1855. No additional info to be gained, relating to his parents, from his death cert sadly.
Monica
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Hi Jenny,
Might be worth your while looking at Scotlands People' s 'Catholic Registers'- Birth & Baptism, Banns & Marriages.
Although I've no credits left for the site I've managed to establish that 2 Daniel McGowan's born/baptised in Glasgow St. Andrew's during 1851 and 2 Charlotte McGowan's at same church during 1854. Could be one child registered twice birth then baptism?
Also there appears to be a marriage (courtesy of Monica)
18/09/50 McGowan Dougald Tonnar Margaritam Margaret Edinburgh St Mary's Catherdral
Don't know if any of this will give you useful info....but you never know!!
Cheers
Looby
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Looby, as you suggest, the double entries on the RC birth and baptism registers will normally be a double entry for the birth and christening of a child.
Monica
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Hi Monica and Looby,
I am sorry if I confused you in one of the posts, but I wrote Margaret McGowan's parents as Charles Toner and "Margaret", but her mum was Elizabeth McNeil, which actually fits in with the family you found Monica, if Elizabeth was know as "Betsy", although she would appear to have been too young to have a child if you work out the ages?? Margaret McGowan, aged 27yrs, came out to Australia on the ship "Guy Mannering" with Charlotte, who was aged 3yrs in November 1857. I think then, that she was born around 1828. Her father, Charles Toner is listed as a "auctioneer". I am also sure that it is Toner and not Jones, as it is quite clear on the certificate. I know that they had a Daniel, who died (according to her death certificate). They then had Charlotte before coming to Australia. Once here they had children Archibald, Margaret, Annabella, Henry, Mary x2 (as one died), John, and Sidney. It also says that her and Dugald married in Glasgow, when she was 19yrs. But, like mentioned, this may be incorrect information, and they could have come over from Ireland.
I found the below information of great interest, as this seems to fit in well with dates and age Margaret would have been:
18/09/50 McGowan Dougald Tonnar Margaritam Margaret Edinburgh St Mary's Catherdral
I am very grateful for your time in trying to help me out. I have really hit a lot of brick walls with this part of the family, but your information is great, and keeps me motivated to look further. Oh, and thanks for moving the post too Monica, hopefully it will also help.
Cheers,
Jenny
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Morning Jenny,
The Betsy Toner of 1841 Census aged 35 would have been age to be Margaret Toner's mother.
She'd have been earlier 20's in 1828?
But to be honest I don't think that family is connected to Margaret.
My advice, if you feel you want to move further with this, would be to go online to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - you'll have to purchase credits I'm afraid - £7 for 30 credits - and check out the marriage at Edinburgh McGowan Dugald/Tonnar Margaret listed in the Catholic Registers section.
Then check out the birth/baptism of Daniel McGowan recorded in 1851 at St.Andrews Glasgow.
And Charlotte Mcgowan recorded 1854 at St. Andrews Glasgow. These are both listed in the Catholic register of births etc.
I have no idea if any info provided on these records will link you to your Dugald/Donald McGowan or move your search on. But they look to me like your best bets at the moment ;D.
Good luck if you decide to have a look at them!!
Best wishes,
Looby
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Hi Looby,
Thanks for all your assistance. I agree that my best option may be to join some other sites, such as the Scotlands People. I will look into this. I am pretty good at finding things over here in Australia, but I get confused a bit when it comes to the UK,Scotland, Ireland, with all the parish/county bits. As I am unfamiliar with them. It will give me a good opportunity to learn more though. Once again thanks for all your assistance.
Cheers,
Jenny