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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Dave Murphy on Saturday 16 March 13 00:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for information on Giles Carter born abt 1806 lived in the area of Gloucesto, Gloucestershire, England married Hannah Wells abt 1841 in England came out to Australia and had the 1st child in 1842 in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia they had 7 children, Hannah died in 1868 and Giles remarried Ann Smith. Giles died in 1883. It would be great to find both the names of Giles and Hannah's parents.
Cheers
Sue
Geelong, Victoria.
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Hi Sue
http://genforum.genealogy.com/carter/messages/20405.html
http://genforum.genealogy.com/carter/messages/20406.html
This person says they have a copy of the marriage certificate of Giles CARTER and Ann WELLS - but provides no details online of what it says!
There is a Giles CARTER indexed for a Marriage:
Mar Qtr 1841, RD: Newbury, Ref: V6, page 249
He is is one of 5 persons on the page where the others are 2 brides and 2 grooms. There should be an even number on the page. His bride is probably not one of the 2 listed there, and is probably:
Ann WELLS indexed for a Marriage:
Mar Qtr 1841, RD: Newbury, Ref: V2, Page 249
She is the 9th person (and the 5th bride) on the page of 5 brides & 4 grooms, there should be only 8 on the page (4 of each gender). All the others are listed as RD Shoreditch.
The index is clear and is typed as Vol2 etc. - I suspect a typo error occurred at the time the index was typed and she should be Newbury, Vol 6, Page 249.
Newbury covers RD's in Berkshire & Hampshire:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/newbury.html
A Marriage registered in the Mar Qtr, could have occurred in Dec 1840. They may have already left the UK by the time of the 1841 Census which was taken 6 Jun 1841.
Their marriage would hopefully name their respective father's and have witness & address', which may be useful to track them back in England.
What is your source saying Giles lived in Gloucestershire?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi
Thank you for responding, yes my source is saying Giles was in Gloucester, Gloucestershire, which is why l am trying to find their marraige records to find out the name of both parents.
Thanks
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Hopefully the 1841 marriage certificate will provide some clues re: parents to help you take the next step back ;D
What I meant re: your source was - what is the evidence to date that says he was in Gloucestershire? I do see a Giles CARTER in Tewkesbury in Gloucestershire in 1841, whose age says b abt 1806 - but there is no Ann with him. I also see some A*trees have attributed this census as being your Giles - I guess I'm wondering if this is soley where the Gloucestershire 'connection' comes from, or if there is other anecdotal or documented information that has come down the family tree!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi
The info i have is from one of the tree's which is a descedant of one of the children, who also commented that the only census she could find was also the one from Tewkesbury in Gloucestershire in 1841, but if Giles and Hannah or Anne Wells married in 1841 and arrived in Australia by 1842 to have their first child l don't understand why there is no census for them, even still living at home with their parents.
There is also another tree that has Giles bein born about 1799 in Arlingham, Gloucestershire and marrying an Ann........ i don't know what else to try to find out this information. Is there other info l can give you that may help. Giles son George Henry Carter married in 1867 and l think that is the source she got her info from for Giles & Hannah.
Thank you
Your help with this is very much appreacaited.
Sue
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Hi Sue
I suspected that 1841 census was the Gloucestershire source. Unless other researchers have proven their claims and offer in the least transcripts of clear source references, I think you have to start with checking out the documentation for yourself - ie: the Australian BDMs and most definitely, the English 1841 marriage certificate. Both references to Gloucestershire (the birth 1806 via 1841 Census, and 1796 Arlington do smack loudly of being chosen simply because of the names Giles Carter and Ann)
As mentioned earlier, the marriage is registered in the March Quarter 1841 (Jan-Feb-Mar) but they could actually have been married in December 1840. Even if they were married in any of the months in the March Quarter, this is still prior to the June 1841 date of the census. In summary, they could easily have married anytime Dec 1840 to March 1841 and hopped straight on a ship for Australia - thereby missing the 1841 Census altogether.
Cheers
AMBLY
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I see son George Henry was apparently born in NSW but registered in Victoria?
Victoria Registration:
George Henry Carter, registered Merri, Victoria - parents: Giles & Ann
NSW Registration:
George H CARTER, born NSW, parents Giles CARTER & Ann, birth registered in Melbourne.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi
How do l get the 1841 marriage certificate, l have tried looking at the census but can't find a Giles Carter being born abt 1806 even struggling to find a Hannah or an Ann. Please if you can let me know where to go to next would be great,
Sue
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Hi
I can't find a record of them on board a ship either which also makes it very difficult.
Sue
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Hi Sue
They may not have even been in England in Census 1841 (but were definitely in Australia by July 1842).
The 1841 Census rounded ages down to nearest 5 years (or was supposed to). From what I can glean, we have no real idea of when they were born in the first place (and I'm considering Gile's age at death when I say this - ages on death certs are often wrong). Even if they were in England in 1841 and not with each other but at parents' houses, we have no idea who those parents might be or where. Also, the 1841 did not record marital status or relationships.
I'm also going to ask re: Hannah/Ann WELLS. Where did the 'Hannah' come from? Is the Hannah CARTER who died age 50 in Victoria 1868 proven to be Giles' wife? I cannot find a marriage registration for Giles marrying 2nd wife Ann SMITH in Victoria - did they marry there?
Finding them on a ship may be nigh on impossible - I've looked at some of the online lists for NSW and Victoria, and a lot of Mr Carter, Mr G Carter, Mrs Carter entries etc. No way to tell from that, unfortunately, more so if they travelled without children. The only thing you can narrow down at present is the time frame from Dec-ish 1840 to 15 Jul 1842.
I wonder if putting a topic on the AUSTRALIAN board here at RC might help fish out more about Giles and Ann? Lots of great chatters on there with access to all sorts of data and true local expertise. If you do that, a link to this topic for background info and to ensure no search double-ups would be needed.
To order & pay for the 1841 marriage certificate (can all be done online):
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Use the GRO reference that was listed on FreeBMD for Giles, not for Ann!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Sue
Re: The Arlingham Giles CARTER.
I'd say he is likely to be this man buried in Arlingham in 1875:
Memorial Inscription
Giles CARTER of this parish
s/o William & Ann CARTER of Puckpool
15 October 1875, 77
Ann, widow of Giles CARTER 9 November 1901, 76
http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/GLS/Arlingham/MIs.html>
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Sue,
I am a descendant of the said Giles Carter and Ann Wells you are referring to. My great-great-great- grand mother was Elizabeth Carter born in eighteen forty two. I have been searching for information on the pair for about 20 plus years and have found it extremely difficult. I have a copy of there wedding certificate if you are interested. I am currently in Jakarta, Indonesia and can't get a copy for you. I will be returning in about 6 weeks to Melbourne and would be happy to give you a copy then.
Katherine Growse
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Hi Katherine, I am the GG Grandson of Giles Carter,, via his first born George Henry... who was your GGG Grandmothers older brother.
Would love to compare notes... so feel free to email me directly on milton.purcell@nec.com.au
Regards Milton
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Curious if this thread had progressed anywhere ? Giles is my 5th GGrand. FYI.. reason George shows born NSW and reg in Melb is because until 1851 Melb was a colony of NSW.. He was actually born Merri Ck.. Melb
Keen to touch base with any Carter researchers in Oz..
Cheers Milton