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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 12:17 GMT (UK)

Title: W&B in Occupation
Post by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 12:17 GMT (UK)
In the 1881 UK Census for the Gillingham, Norfolk area, I have a 54-year old woman who is transcribed as a "W&B Machine Woman".  This appears to be incorrect.  She has originally been entered on the original document as "??? Woman" (first word indecipherable).  Then "wash" (not "mach") has been written above that, and "W&B" has been written before that.  Does anyone know what "W&B" stands for?  I'm guessing the "W" is "wash"?  I've added a blowup of the entry.

John
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 10 March 13 13:02 GMT (UK)
Took see the census, it is Ruth Webb, 54, RG11; Piece: 1962; Folio: 56; Page: 3

Stan
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 13:04 GMT (UK)
Took see the census, it is Ruth Webb, 54, RG11; Piece: 1962; Folio: 56; Page: 3

Stan

Thanks, Stan, I know who the person is, I just want to try to decipher her occupation.

John
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 10 March 13 13:09 GMT (UK)
Other people would not know where to look to see the original which does help in cases like this  :)
For instance to compare writing.
Stan
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 10 March 13 13:18 GMT (UK)
Looks like the "wash" was written by the original enumerator as the W is the same as for other entries on the page eg in Webb.

But the W&B was written by someone else - possibly the census officials - when they processed it. If so - then perhaps the letters W&B stand for "washing and bathing" which was occupation code 063 in "Domestic Service" in the 1881 Census.

See here for interesting paper on the clasifications.
http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~matthew/Papers/Woollard_1881Classifications_no%20illustration.pdf

If you look further down the page at the bottom they have also added "indoor" to one of the entries for a farm labourer... and a couple of pages later they have added "dom" before "maid".


Milly
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 13:25 GMT (UK)
Looks like the "wash" was written by the original enumerator as the W is the same as for other entries on the page eg in Webb.

But the W&B was written by someone else - possibly the census officials - when they processed it. If so - then perhaps the letters W&B stand for "washing and bathing" which was occupation code 063 in "Domestic Service" in the 1881 Census.


Thanks Milly, I did notice the difference in the "W" between the entries, but didn't know the codes were used before the 1911 census.  The referenced document will be very useful.  And I note that 062 is for a charwoman, which was an earlier occupation for this woman, so I suspect you are right.

Thanks for the help!

John
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 10 March 13 13:35 GMT (UK)
Occupations 1881, Classified Index
II Domestic Class, Other Services, Order 4 Sub-order 2, 62 Washing and Bathing Service.  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t48/
Charwoman is 61

Stan
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 10 March 13 13:35 GMT (UK)
No idea what the word before woman is though ???

Could it be a poorly written Char ?

Or Hir ? (is in Hire woman - not that I have heard of such a thing)

Looking at other words it looks like it begins with N though

Milly
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 10 March 13 13:40 GMT (UK)
Occupations 1881, Classified Index
II Domestic Class, Other Services, Order 4 Sub-order 2, 62 Washing and Bathing Service.  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t48/
Charwoman is 61

Stan

Comparing Stans's link to the one I gave you - it appears the codes are slightly different. I'd go with Stan's as it is the original instructions.  (Just goes to show - you need the original sources!)

Milly
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 13:45 GMT (UK)
Occupations 1881, Classified Index
II Domestic Class, Other Services, Order 4 Sub-order 2, 62 Washing and Bathing Service.  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t48/
Charwoman is 61

Stan

In the 1881 Census analysis document that Milly quoted, 061 is "cook, not domestic", Stan.

John
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 10 March 13 13:49 GMT (UK)
I think whoever wrote that paper got their numbers out of sync ::) ::)

Milly
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 10 March 13 13:51 GMT (UK)
The link I gave is to the official census report. In 1891 Ruth Webb is a laundress.

Stan
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 13:53 GMT (UK)
No idea what the word before woman is though ???

Could it be a poorly written Char ?

Or Hir ? (is in Hire woman - not that I have heard of such a thing)

Looking at other words it looks like it begins with N though

Milly

I think I have it!  If you ignore the stroke through, you can see the first letter is a capital "W", just like the one indicating "Widowed" to the left.  You can also see the last character is tall, as it blends with the "wash" annotation above.  The original entry was "Wash Woman", but the "Wash" was poorly written, so it has been re-entered above.

And here I just corrected Stan, and now I see you say his codes are more reliable!  I'll copy his reference too, and use both as a cross-reference.  If the codes differ I'll add them together and divide by 2!   :D

John
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 13:58 GMT (UK)
The link I gave is to the official census report. In 1891 Ruth Webb is a laundress.

Stan

It certainly looks like a period document... I'm bemused by the "Professional Swimmer" in the washing and laundry classification.  I wonder if it's easier or harder to swim in soapy water?  ;D

John
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 10 March 13 14:04 GMT (UK)
You can see the title page, dated 1885,  at  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t49/

Stan
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 10 March 13 14:04 GMT (UK)
Definitely go with Stan's doc as the original source info and ignore mine ;)

It's interesting how the coders worked though...how could they know if work was indoors or outdoors...or if someone was a washer-woman at home or in a laundry or whatever.   Or indeed if they were a professional swimmer (do they mean working in the local bath house ???) and not just a keen amateur ;D ;D

Milly
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: JVH on Sunday 10 March 13 14:29 GMT (UK)
I have this mad image of the local bathhouse being used after regular hours as a giant washtub.  Throw in the clothes, throw in the soap, throw in a bunch of kids, who swim around and act as "agitators", and lo! the birth of professional swimming.  A better job than being a mudlark, 'cause at least you'd be clean and warm.

John
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 10 March 13 14:39 GMT (UK)
Definitely go with Stan's doc as the original source info and ignore mine ;)
Milly

If you look at the link http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~matthew/Papers/Woollard_1881Classifications_no%20illustration.pdf given by Milly, you will see that it has 037 030503 [Student] this is not in the original report see  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t4a/  which is why all the subsequent numbers are one out.

Stan
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 10 March 13 15:01 GMT (UK)
Students eh ::) ::) ::)

Milly
Title: Re: W&B in Occupation
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 10 March 13 16:49 GMT (UK)
It's interesting how the coders worked though...how could they know if work was indoors or outdoors...or if someone was a washer-woman at home or in a laundry or whatever.   Or indeed if they were a professional swimmer (do they mean working in the local bath house ???) and not just a keen amateur ;D ;D
Milly


Any of those occupations that were given on the census schedules were all classified as 62 Washing and Bathing Service. As it says in the instructions to the clerks employed in classifying the occupations, the occupations under which people were returned numbered many thousands, these were grouped into just 399 headings.
Stan