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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: wbutcheruk2 on Friday 08 March 13 17:58 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am looking for information for Albert John Butcher born 1903 in kent (also known as Arthur), england, moved to australia (don't know when) married (abt 1925) Lelia Mackieson born 1899-1974. They were around the Victoria area for some time, but not sure if they moved. Childrens names i believe: Betty, Joan, John & Gwenth Butcher. Born in the 1920s i think.
Birth dates and marriage details for the children would be great or any information on the family would be good. I have struggled to find anything about Albert.
Thank you.
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Hi
WW2 Nominal Roll http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=478371
Muss
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Hi,
An Albert J Butcher left London on 14/03/1924 for Melbourne Australia on the Balranald.
He was 20, a motor driver and his address was 92 Linden Crescent, Folkestone, Kent
Sharon
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Hi
Family tree for Lelia http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=breton29&id=I1551
contains information on Albert
Muss
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There is this death record.
Name: Gwenneth Turner
Father: Albert Butcher
Mother: Jessie
Age: 63
Death: 1982 - Bendigo, Victoria
Reg no: 13252
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On the electrol role in 1942
Gwenneth Butcher (sales), Albert John Buther (Picture exhibitor) and Alfred Stanley Butcher (Traveller) all live in Hervey Street, Elmore.
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In 1949 Gwenneth Turner is living at Hervey St, Elmore (homeduties)
There is no other Turner in Hervey st but there is a Keith Henry (or Henry Keith) Turner at Campaspe St, Elmore - Picture proprietor.
Modifying to add. This my not be your Gwenneth as her mother on her death cert is listed as Jessie.
I cannot find a birth for this woman. I am now thinking she was born overseas. So not yours. Sorry about the goose chase. Rule this one out I think.
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Victorian births
BUTCHER Alfd Lloyd Stanley
Father: Albt Jno
Mother: Jessie COWAN
Birth Place ELMORE
Year 1917
Reg. 2946
BUTCHER Cath Emma
Father Albt Jno
Mother Jessie COWAN
Birth Place ELMORE
Year 1914
Reg. 30780
BUTCHER Gwennie
Father Albert Jno
SpoMother Jessie COWAN
Birth Place ELMORE
Year 1919
Reg. 2858
Sue
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JESSIE and this ALBERT JOHN lived on at Elmore together for many years.
She died
Death
BUTCHER Jessie
Father Cowan William
Mother Catherine An UNKNOWN
Death Place WANG
Age 79
Year 1963
Reg 21622
Sue
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LEILA ELIZABETH MARY was twice widowed before her marriage to ALBERT JOHN BUTCHER.
Her first husband GEORGE LAKE AUSTIN was killed in action in ww1.
He was aged 30 and was therefore a bit older than LEILA at the time of their marriage.
MACKIESON Leila Elizabeth Mary
To AUSTIN George Lake
1916 #3875
You can read his digitised service file at.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/BasicSearch.aspx
There are letters from LEILA
There were no listed children from this marriage
Her second marriage
ROZYNSKI Oscar Ernt
To AUSTIN Lelia Elizth Mary
Year 1920
# 9593R
Oscar's ww1 record is also digitised.
He died
ROZYNSKI Oscar Ernest
Rozynski James
Mother Elizth LOCK
Death Place MELB E
Age 26
Year 1921
Reg 14721
We are not able to see births after 1920 on Victorian indexes, but here are no births to 1920.
Sue
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Thank you for your help everyone.
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It appears that all of Albert's children have died, but I cannot find any records on this.
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The tree linked by Muss above lists this woman as a child of Albert and Leila.
Here is her death
HAMILTON Betty
Father Butcher Arthur
Mother Leilia Eliz
Death Place LEON
Age 55
Year 1982
Reg 30169
Sue
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This would be correct as I've noticed and asked a family member who could only just remember, that he did also go by the name of Arthur (Which was on his English baptism i think). Just wish i could find out more about Albert's children. Not much i can do from this side of world.
Thank you for your help.
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It is obvious that the Albert John BUTCHER you are seeking, born in Kent in 1903 did not have parents Jessie COWAN and Albert John BUTCHER who married in 1912 in Victoria.#5988. She was born at Runnyvalde and he at Bendigo.
Their son was born at Elmore, Victoria in 1913 and his birth name was John Albert BUTCHER (in that order)#3104
The Death Certificate on the webpage trees linked above by muss above is for this man. He is not yours born in 1903 in Kent.
It is also possible he is not the one who married Leila (nee MACKISON who died at Sale in 1974 #19008)
What is the source of your information and what were the names of the parents of the man born in Kent, please?
Sue
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So if this is your correct couple, the electoral Roll shows-
1931
BUTCHER, Albert John, Nareena East, via Dumbalk. Farmer
BUTCHER, Lelia Elizabeth Mary as above. HD
This address would be close to Powlett River which is where he was on his ww2 enlistment.
Sue
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Deleted to avoid further confusion.
Cando
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Should have followed the info further...this Albert John BUTCHER born 10 Jan 1903 Kent died in 1979 and is buried with his sister Priscilla in the Hernhill Churchyard, Kent.
Back to square one ::)
Cando
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This is your Albert John BUTCHER's burial record in Perth WA
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00146642
Grantee Leila Elizabeth
Cando
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Death
BUTCHER Albert John
Father Frederick Mother Emily J
1973 69 years Reg#1361/73
District Perth
Australian Electoral Roll
1949
BUTCHER Albert John 163 Raymond Street, Sale Clerk
BUTCHER Leila Elizabeth 163 Raymond Street, Sale HD
1954
BUTCHER Albert John Bangdaaguah Gardner
BUTCHER Leila Elizabeth Bangdalaguah HD
1972
BUTCHER Albert John Briagolong No Occupation
BUTCHER Leila Elizabeth Briagolong HD
Cando
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Marriages Dec 1887
BUTCHER Frederick East Ashford 2a/1385
THORNBEE/THORNBY Emily East Ashford 2a/1385
Births Sep 1903
BUTCHER Albert John East Ashford 2a/965
Cando
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Marriage
BUTCHER Albert John
ROZYNSKI Lelia Elizabeth
1925 Reg#29
Cando
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So we see Leila came back to Victoria after her husband died and she herself died the following year.
Perhaps she had left family at Sale.
Sue
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They were both on the electoral rolls in Victoria in 1972 so Albert may have died while visiting WA :-\.
Cando
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Yes this my Albert John Butcher. Parents were Frederick & Emily and I have this death information along with his wifes information. I also paided the archieves to get his WW2 details which had a photo of him. Dumbalk would be correct as his two older brothers followed him over a couple of years later, but they changed their surname to Thornby. I have a picture of Lelia's gravestone plaque I got from the internet too, which states children as Betty, Gwenth,Violet, John, Joan all Butcher. Children from previous marriages: George Austin & Dorothy Rozynski. All born around 1920s, but I have been told by a family member near the Dumbalk area that she thought they had all died. I am just trying to fill in the blanks really.
Thank you for all your help people.
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Yes this my Albert John Butcher. Parents were Frederick & Emily and I have this death information along with his wifes information. I also paided the archieves to get his WW2 details which had a photo of him. Dumbalk would be correct as his two older brothers followed him over a couple of years later, but they changed their surname to Thornby. I have a picture of Lelia's gravestone plaque I got from the internet too, which states children as Betty, Gwenth,Violet, John, Joan all Butcher. Children from previous marriages: George Austin & Dorothy Rozynski. All born around 1920s, but I have been told by a family member near the Dumbalk area that she thought they had all died. I am just trying to fill in the blanks really.
Thank you for all your help people.
I'm sure we were all pleased to help.
However, I hope you will not mind that I offer a little friendly advice at this point.
Regarding your man and his marriage etc. you obviously had a great deal of information right from the beginning. Helpers here spent quite a lot of time finding these details for you because you had not fully informed us of what you already knew. Big double up!
It is a good idea when interacting with the forum to give all your information right from the beginning and to respond as soon as possible when you can add helpful details or comments to further the search ;D
About your quest for the details on children of the marriage, privacy laws make searching for people born after 1920 difficult as they may actually be still living despite what family members "think" to the contrary.
Sue
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Bit hard to fill in your gaps without all the information you had at the time of your request.
I'll leave you to find Albert on the 1911 census with his parents and siblings as we are prevented by copyright from passing on any information.
Cheers :)
Cando
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It is obvious that the Albert John BUTCHER you are seeking, born in Kent in 1903 did not have parents Jessie COWAN and Albert John BUTCHER who married in 1912 in Victoria.#5988. She was born at Runnyvalde and he at Bendigo.
Their son was born at Elmore, Victoria in 1913 and his birth name was John Albert BUTCHER (in that order)#3104
The Death Certificate on the webpage trees linked above by muss above is for this man. He is not yours born in 1903 in Kent.
It is also possible he is not the one who married Leila (nee MACKISON who died at Sale in 1974 #19008)
What is the source of your information and what were the names of the parents of the man born in Kent, please?
Sue
Im having trouble following your thread, but the son (john Albert butcher) you refer to is my grandfather. If you have not ruled out this link, I can maybe help.
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Im having trouble following your thread, but the son (john Albert butcher) you refer to is my grandfather. If you have not ruled out this link, I can maybe help.
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Hi Medwards89,
I have gone as far i can get with this link but you may be able to help further, if your John Albert Butcher is the son of Albert John Butcher & Leila Elizabeth Mary Mackieson. Albert & Lelia has the following children: Violet, John, Gwenth, Betty & Joan. Leila also had Dorothy in a previous marriage.
If this all matches up with your family tree i would be most interested to follow your link and also i can share my research with you.