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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: emilysiobhan on Sunday 01 May 05 02:31 BST (UK)
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May is now here........it's time for a new challenge!
Well done to everyone for the fantastic success of the April challenge, I just hope we might have half as much success with May.
After receieving everyones views...opinion seemed to be slightly in favour of a completely random person. as per April, so.................
The random number generated Rootschat May challenge is:
Florence A. Hunter
found in RG11/0245 folio 7 p.7
I haven't checked whether she survived even 1881 or not, but maybe we can investigate her family if not.
So...On your marks......get set......and it's go with the May challenge........
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OK, I know it's not fair, but it has been the first of May for HOURS here (now 3pm)
Florence Annie Hunter started life at 20 Harrington Square, St Pancras, moved to 189 Camden Road and later to 21 Hilldrop Rd, Islington.
Her papa was an upholsterer but, for some extraordinary reason, sometime between 1871 and 1881 he decided to become a pole maker. Maybe there was money in poles - or perhaps he was trying to keep up with his very wealthy son-in-law, Henry Conolly.
She's not hard to find - but I don't want to spoil all the fun.
Cheers,
Ros
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Oh no!!! She has married an Aussie - AND lied about her age ...
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I love the fact that Florence's brother Edward has the middle name 'Couchman' ... rather appropriate for the son of an upholsterer, don't you think? :) (This from the 1871 census).
But it might give us a clue as to his mother's maiden name?
Paul
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So for the benefit of the jury...(or those without census access)
1881 she is a visitor in the house of Connolly 59 Parkhurst Rd, Islington, London
Florence A Hunter visitor unmarried 25 bn St Pancras, Middlesex
And in 1871...
RG10/237
Pancras, Kentish Town
ED: 11, F: 84 P: 14
St Pancras
189 Camden Road
Richard Hunter Head 56 Mar Upholsterer Warcroft, Westmorland
Emily Hunter Wife Mar 53 Middlesex
Emily Jane Hunter Daughter 22 Middlesex
Richard Frank Hunter Son 19 Upholsterer St Pancras, Middlesex
Edward Couchman Hunter Son 17 tea merchants assitant St Pancras, Middlesex
Elizabeth T Hunter Daughter 13 Scholar St Pancras, Middlesex
Florence Annie Hunter Daughter 12 Scholar St Pancras, Middlesex
Edith Beatrice Hunter Daughter 8 St Scholar Pancras, Middlesex
Sarah White Servant 24 Domestic Burley, Hampshire
And 1861...
RG9/109
Pancras, Somers Town
ED: 2, F: 12, P: 23
20 Harrington Square, St Pancras
Richard Hunter Head 47 Mar Upholsterer Bough, Westmorland
Emily Hunter Wife Mar 43 ? London
Emily J Hunter Daughter 12 St Pancras, Middlesex
Richard F Hunter Son 9 St Pancras, Middlesex
Edward C Hunter Son 7 St Pancras, Middlesex
Elizabeth T Hunter Daughter 3 St Pancras, Middlesex
Florence A Hunter Daughter 2 Scholar St Pancras, Middlesex
Jane Mulligan Servt Unm 27 St Pancras, Middlesex
Jane Deacon Servt Unm 18 St Pancras, Middlesex
Mary Dyke Servt Unm 28 St Cadbury, Somerset
Pam
;D
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Hey hey, don't you love the switching names gag!
HUNTER, Annie Florence
September Qtr 1860
District: Pancras
County: London Middlesex
Vol: 1b P: 13
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Hi Everyone
do I keep out of this one lol she is in my tree :-))
Jan
xx
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Ohhh this is exciting, much better than writing the 5 essays I have to hand in within the next 4 weeks!!
I found this on IGI....
Richard Hunter Married Emily COUCHMAN on 7th August 1845 at Saint Benet Fink, London.
I guess Edward's middle name was a bit of a give away!
Also Emily was christened on 14th April 1817 in London to William and Elizabeth Couchman.
William and Elizabeth were married in 1814 in Saint Alban Wood St, London. Elizabeths maiden surname was Fenn.
They had another daughter, Elizabeth Ann Councham, christened in London on Setember 16th 1815.
William was born to Stephen and Elizabeth Couchman and christened on 26th June 1792.
Anyway I could probably go on forever but I have essays mounting up!!
Have a lovely bank holiday everyone
Love
Legs
xxxxx
P.S There is a lady on GenesReunited with and Florence Annie Hunter, born 1859 in St. Pancras......
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Sorry for a short post before - excitement got in the way.
She is the sister of my gg grandfather
Jan xx
I am the one on genes :D
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OOhhhhh how exciting again!!
Is all the info we've found correct so far??
What can you tell us about Florence and family??!
Legs
xxxx
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Hi Everyone
do I keep out of this one lol she is in my tree :-))
Jan
xx
Hi Jan
Welcome to Rootschat - have a look at the April Challenge and you'll get the idea of what we're doing! Click here ... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,49589.0.html
As you will see, Malcolm helped us when we were going astray, and posed some questions he needed answers to!
cheers
Paul
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Hey Jan, how did you get to be so lucky!! Which one is your gg-grandfather?
There's an Agnes Couchman Hunter born 19 August 1891, Tunbridge Wells, died August 1989 aged 98.
I thought she might have been last of the line - but obviously not!
Ros
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Thanks Paul
I was a little unsure what was going on . this morning I received an email on GenesReunited saying about the name - so I came on here and checked and yessss she is mine - I was quite gobsmacked. Will look back at the link you have put on now
Ros my gg- grandfather is William
Jan xx
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Hi legs
all the info seems right so far - am going to print all this off and check it against all my tree and notes this afternoon - cant wait its sooooo exciting!! :D
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Hi Boongie Pam
I seem to remember that in 1881 although she was a visitor - her brother lived next door to where she was visiting ??
xx
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Nope......this is far more exciting than writing essays....
Stephen and Elizabeth Couchman had a further 3 children...
Hannah Couchman - Born 24th June 1790 in London
Thomas Couchman - Born 3rd July 1791 in London
Stephen Couchman - Born 9th March 1794 in London
I also think that Elizabeth Fenn (married William Couchman) was born to James and Elizabeth Fenn on February 17th 1784 and christened on March 7th 1784 in St Alban Wood St, London.
Have fun looking through all your notes this afternoon Jan, you really don't know what you're in for yet!! I just wish some one would pick one of my ancestors - I'm totally stuck!!
Have fun!
Love
Legs
xxxxx
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Yes Jan, you're right - Edward C. Hunter was at 61 Parkhurst Rd and Florence was visiting her sister (I reckon) Elizabeth F. Connolly at 59 Parkhurst Rd.
Ros
It will be interesting to see if we come up with stuff you didn't know before!
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Could this be Richard Hunters birth....?
RICHARD HUNTER
Christened on 29th April 1814 at Warcop, Westmorland, to Henry and Jane Hunter.
I'm guessing that WARCOP and WARCROFT (1881 census) are the same place?
If so Henry and Jane had possibly 4 other children....
Henry Hunter - Christened 26th December 1811 Warcop
Margaret Hunter - Christened 11th November 1816 Warcop
Ann Hunter - Christened 25th July 1819 Warcop
and possibly
Robert Hunter - Christened 24th Feburary 1822 Kirkby Stephen.
Jane and Henry married on the 25th February 1808 at Crosby Garrett, Westmorland. Jane's maiden surname was Gibson. Henry was 33 years old and Jane was 29 years old when they married.
Legs
xxxxx
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Hi Jan (again),
I can't see a brother William??? Where does he fit in/
Ros
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Jane Gibson was christened on the 21st January 1779 in Warcop, she was born to Robert and Margaret Gibson.
Henry Hunter was born to William and Bridgit Hunter and christened on the 14th April 1775 in Milburn, Westmorland.
William Hunter married Bridgit Robinson on the 18th December 1768 in Milburn, Westmorland.
Good Luck
Legs
xxxxx
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More children for William and Bridgit.....
MARY HUNTER - Christened on 18th January 1781 in Milburn ELIZABETH HUNTER - Christened on 6th January 1771 in Milburn MARGARET HUNTER - Christened on 4th Feburary 1773 in Milburn
THOMAS HUNTER - Christened on 3rd July 1777 in Milburn
BARBARA HUNTER - Christened on 25th May 1769 in Milburn
Robert and Margaret Gibson had plenty of children too....
ANN GIBSON - Christened on 26th September 1799 in Warcop
SARAH GIBSON - Christened on 26th September 1793 in Warcop ROBERT GIBSON - Christened on 14th November 1790 in Warcop
MARY GIBSON - Christened on 18th January 1777 in Warcop
PEGGY GIBSON - Christened on 9th January 1783 in Warcop
WILLIAM GIBSON - Christened on 28th October 1780 in Warcop
JONATHAN GIBSON - Christened on 13th February 1785 in Warcop
Thats all from me for now - deadlines are calling!!
Have fun all
Love
Legs
xxxxx
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Hi Jan,
Welcome to Rootschat.....and congratulations on being the lucky recipient of the May 2005 challenge.
I can't believe that we are already back to 1768 already with Hunters....wasn't able to get to the computer since this morning (husband needed it for work) and had been initially worried that Florence's visitor status might be problematic, although I did think I spotted her brother and wife two doors away in 1881. Well done everybody!
When you've had a chance to look at all the posts, do let us know if what is posted so far agrees with what you already know about the family and if there are any specific questions/brick walls that you would like us to try and help with do ask....
Ros....which Australian did Florence marry? Have people found her in 1891
and 1901?
Did she also emigrate like Abraham?
Best regards,
Emily
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Here is Florence Hunter..........but it might not be the right Florence Hunter!!!!!!!!!!
It might just be a Red Herring!!!!!
THE D'OYLY CARTE OPERA COMPANY
Florence Hunter (1892-94)
Florence Hunter toured with D’Oyly Carte Opera Company “D” from March 1892 to December 1894, appearing as Rose in The Vicar of Bray (March 1892-December 1893, and November-December 1894), Dorcas in Haddon Hall (December 1892-December 1893), and Princess Kalyba in Utopia Limited (December 1893-December 1894).
LynWings
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No occupation stated in 1891 and not married. for completeness:
RG12/144 27 168 32
Richard HUNTER H M 75 - Pole Manufacturer - b Westmorland
Emily HUNTER W M 73 - b City of London
Florence A HUNTER dau U 32 - b St Pancras
Edith B HUNTER dau U 28 - b ditto
Mary A BRAND serv U 25 - Housemaid Dom - b Cambs
Ada BROOKBAND serv U 25 - cook - b St Pancras
Address: 21 Hilldrop Rd, Islington St Mary
Not another BRAND!!
Arranroots ;)
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Possible Marriage:
1898 Marylebone
Florence A HUNTER
Richard John REEVES
Frederick SPICER
Frederick William WATTS
1901 census RG 13/130 16 48 27
Frederick SPICER H M 36 - surgeon Own Acct - b Melbourne Australia
Florence A SPICER W M 36 - b St Pancras
Frederick P SPICER son 1 1/2 mo - b ditto
Address: 282 Camden Pl (?) , Camden Town
Seems she aged gracefully... ;D
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Loks like her husband has aged just as gracefully as he was 32 ten years previous ;D! He is listed as b. Victoria, Australia
He was living at the same address as in 1901 with a servant Minnie Plit? 20. Frederick is listed as a general practitioner.
RG12/132 11 178 22
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In 1881 Frederick was a student of medicine in Newcastle upon Tyne.
He is a lodger at 21 Hawthorn Street, Elswick, Newcastle
He is aged 21 and born Victoria, Australia
Ref: RG11/5051 20A 67 3
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Ohh One essay down - woohoo!
Lynwings....I just noticed that you had Fenn's from London in your family history - are they related to the Elizabeth Fenn I found earlier I wonder...??!
I though Frederick Spice was living at 19 Hawthorn St, Elswick, Northumberland on the 1881 - sorry I'm being pedantic!!
RG11/ 5051 67 3
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Wow you lot!! mind boggling
guess who's printer ran out of ink half way through!! loads still to look at but to let you all know some of what I have.
Richard hunter brn warcop 1814
married Emily Couchman 7th August 1845 st benet fink
children were
william 1846 (married Keziah mason in 1874)
emily Jane 1849 (married Alfred William Cutler)
Richard Frank 1852 (married Hannah Murrell in 1873)
Edward Couchman 1854 (married Ellen B)
Elizabeth J
Florence annie 1859 (married Fred Spicer)
Edith Beatrice 1863 (married John Shore Tate)
Richard Hunters parents were Henry Hunter 1775 from Longmartin
&
Jane Gibson 1879 from Warcop died 1873 Westmorland
Jane Gibsons parents were Robert Gibson 1854 Westmoreland and Margaret Perkins
Emily Couchman parents were William Couchman and Elizabeth Fenn
children were Emily brn 1817
and Elizabeth ann 1815 who married Robert Heke Beedle in 1838
Jan xx
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http://edenlinks.rootsweb.com/1gp/RECORDS/WIN_TAX_NW_LM.HTM#milb
Lists a few Hunters - incuding a William - in Milburn in the Window Tax records from 1777.
Paul
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Update on my last post
Elizabeth Fenn Hunter
married
Henry John Conolly in st pancras 1876
:-)
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I'm still wondering about those poles ...
Ros
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i cant believe that out of the two random choices so far that both we have had people who have them in their tree. Shows how wide spread rootschat is getting and hopefully Jan, we will do as much as last month.
Paul E just shows what a fantastic idea you had .
Kev.
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From Freebmd:
Hunter, Richard
Record Type: Deaths
Age at death: 84
Quarter: June
Year: 1898
District: Islington
County: Greater London London Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 166
Name: Hunter, Emily
Record Type: Deaths
Age at death: 75
Quarter: September
Year: 1892
District: Islington
County: Greater London London Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 141
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There seem to be whole clans of Hunters from Westmorland......found quite a few on various pages of transcriptions from members of the Cumbria FHS.
Including:
HUNTER Wm m Bridget Robinson 18December1768 (Milburn PR)
HUNTER Bridget w of William Yeoman (38) bur 28May1784 (Milburn PR)
HUNTER Eliz d of William & Bridget (13) bur 1April1784 (Milburn PR)
HUNTER Henry s of William yeoman & Bridget bapt 14Apr1775 (Milburn PR)
-to confirm those that allegs found on the IGI yesterday
+many more from Milburn to at least as far back as 1699
http://janelittle.members.beeb.net/Parish%20Registers/Humble_to_Hutcheson.htm
and have also found:
ROBINSON Bridget d of Michael & Margraet [sic] bapt 30Jun1745 (Milburn PR)
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Why "Florence"?
The name Florence - used in medieval times for both boys and girls - had virtually died out in England by the beginning of the 19th century, until a well-off couple named Nightingale, on an extended honeymoon tour of Europe, named their second daughter after the Italian town where she was born. Florence Nightingale became a national heroine in 1854, when she took a party of British nurses to the Crimea, and in the following years, thousands of girls were named after her, including the subject of this month's challenge.
MR
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Thanks for that MR - what an interesting addition.
Will future genealogists muse on the appearance of the name ... say, Elvis, I wonder?
Here's a new challenge. What is the earliest appearance of that name? Will Gracelands have the definitive answer?
Actually, I had a peek at the US records on the Ancestry census indexes and found one in 1800 (name obscured by an ink blot - a bit of literary licence, I think) and two in 1810 (one on closer inspection obviously Elias and the other not found). Gave up after that. It must have been invented.
Cheers,
Ros
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Hiya Everyone
Ros to do with the pole maker - I cant at present find it but I have another relative who was also a pole maker at the same time maybe he just had a change for a while
Jan xx
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Perhaps the poles were for corral making.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~cansk/SaskatchewanAndItsPeople/Volume2/Corral.html
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Hi Legs re Richard Hunter all details were good except for there is also another child Jane Hunter brn 1809
Robert also did belong to them
Henry was a farmer in 1841 census aged 65
1851 aged 74
1861 aged 86 occuapation now gardener
Jane Gibsons details were
1841 aged 60
1851 aged 71
1861 aged 81
1871 aged 91
died 1873
xx
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Wow I think I have surpassed myself there then, I'm quiet impressed with my detectiveness, even though I only used IGI - if only my lot were as easy to come across, I'm still stuck in 1923 the the mystery of my great grandma who was married and had 3 children but she's not been born or died!! Oh well!
I hope all the rootchatters find all sorts of exciting things for you....In fact knowing them I know they will.
How far back have you researched so far?
Sit back, relax and enjoy the world of rootschat!!
Love
Legs
xxxx
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Hi
A No occupation stated in 1891 and not married. for completeness:
RG12/144 27 168 32
Richard HUNTER H M 75 - Pole Manufacturer - b Westmorland
Emily HUNTER W M 73 - b City of London
Florence A HUNTER dau U 32 - b St Pancras
Edith B HUNTER dau U 28 - b ditto
Mary A BRAND serv U 25 - Housemaid Dom - b Cambs
Ada BROOKBAND serv U 25 - cook - b St Pancras
Address: 21 Hilldrop Rd, Islington St Mary
Not another BRAND!!
Arranroots ;)
A bit about Hilldrop Road from the Charles Booth Survey taken around the time of the 1891 census:
"Hilldrop Road and Crescent, semi detached ... 3 1/2 storied, Rd fronts, good back gardens. a very respectable and quiet neighbourhood ... "
quote from here http://booth.lse.ac.uk/notebooks/b349/djvu/163.html where there is also an outline map of the neighbourhood and also has some interesting information about housing and house rental costs in the immediate area.
Jonathan
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Hi Legs
on the Hunter's confirmed dates -1768
Gibsons -1754
Jonathon I found that really interesting!! Many thanx
Love Jan xx
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Hi Legs,
Yes I wondered too about the Fenns. Maybe????????????????
I can't check because I havent even got past Connie yet born about 1930 somewhere in London.
If anyone can connect her to Elizabeth I would be absolutely delighted!
Lyn
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From the Australian Vital Records CD:
A possibility for Frederick Spicers birth in Victoria, Australia
Reg Year: 1860, Ref No: 7195, Event Place: St.Kilda, State: Victoria,
Father: Frederick Spicer, Mother: Amelis Su Murrell.
His sister's birth is also listed: Louisa Spicer, born 1856 St.Kilda (Ref: 7829)
Frederick Spicer married Amelia Susannah Murrell in 1855 in Victoria. (Ref: 2156)
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Hi Jan, (and everyone)
Are there any parts of the Hunter/Gibson/Spicer/Couchman/Fenn families where you have particular brickwalls that we might be able to help you with? Or at least try to help you with?
With the rate of progress we had in the first few days of May perhaps we can trace the family back to the Norman conquest by the end of the month :)
Can anyone tell me what sort of poles a pole-maker makes? I think it's not so unusual for people to have quite a change of career...I have one ancestor who started off a tailor, but then became a newsagent later on in life.
I found somewhere on google a Florence Hunter who was appearing in films in the 1930's...so I wonder if that is the one that LynWings found touring with the opera company.
Have just rechecked and discovered that the filmstar one was born in 1914 though ???
That looks a good find in the Australian records Juliette....it must be a likely possibility for Frederick"s birth
Emily
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Hi Emily n all
out of all my family I think I have had the least trouble with the Hunters etc - I really do have a brick wall going forward with them though - William Hunter married a Keziah Mason on xmas day 1874 I have the marriage cert - from other census she was born about 1856 in Lambeth, her fathers name was William, he worked as a Smith, can anyone find her in 1861 or 1871.
I also have William Hunter missing in 1861 and 1871 - grrrrrrr
many many thanks all
Jan xx
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Emily
possibly a flag pole or fishing pole - I have been trying to find out but so many different options
Jan xx
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William Hunter married a Keziah Mason on xmas day 1874 I have the marriage cert
Have we tried an address search in 1871 from the 1874 marriage?
Pauline
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The address is Clayton street, Lambeth
:-))))
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1871:
Clayton Place Rg10/670 Fol 51
Clayton St Rg10/ 670 Fol 42-49
Little Clayton St Rg10/ 670 Fol 49-51
Clayton Villas Rg10/ 690 Fol 41-42
I've no Ancestry access any more (sob!). The second ref is probably the one to start with.
Pauline
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Thanks Pauline am off to try - will let you know
Jan xx
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Noooo cant seem to see them :'(
thanks anyway :-)
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Hi Jan
Not much joy looking for Keziah...
I can find Keziah Hunter in 1881 but not in 1891.
Not a sniff of a Surrey / Lambeth born Kezia / Keziah in 1871 and 1861.
:(
Paul
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Hi there Paul
Many thanks for looking for me I have Keziah etc in 1891 she was transcribed as Keriah - just to confuse me lol
Jan xx
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Hi Jan,
Sorry to rabbit on ... I still haven't got the connection between William Hunter and Florence ???
Maybe I've missed something.
Cheers,
Ros
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Hi Ros
William Hunter was Florence annies brother brn 1846.
:-)))))
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I couldn't find any likely looking Kez*/Kes*/Hez* 's in 1861 or 1871 either.......maybe there was a big overseas expedition from Lambeth that weekend that my missing Lambeth relatives went on too.
Were Keziah and William both down as single on their wedding cert.? I found one William JJ Hunter in 1871 of the right age...but he already had a wife.
I don't suppose you have Keziah's birth cert. with a mothers name on to have another name on to try?
I had a brief look in the images on freeBMD to see if I could find Keziah's birth reg. but only found a Kezia Mason born in Dudley March quarter 1856 (couldn't read the Sep. quarter scan though and didn't look at any other years).
I did learn in the process though that Lambeth seems to be in both London and Surrey which I hadn't really noticed before.
Best regards,
Emily
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Who are the witnesses on the marriage cert? Are they possible family members?
MR
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But at least while looking for variants of Keziah I did come across
Kerenhappuch Hogsflesh
and emily and MR will know how nice that feels! :)
Paul
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Keziah is driving me nuts!
There are 13 Lambeth-born Keziahs (or variants) showing in 1871 (out of a total of 170 odd Surrey-borns).
My suspicion would be that she had perhaps married before, and is therefore *hiding* as one of the four Lambeth-born Keziahs who are shown as married in 1871. They are all living in London.
cheers
Paul
IGNORE THIS - *FORGOT* WE HAD AN ESTIMATED DOB FOR KEZIAH OF 1856 AND THESE WON'T FIT!
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But at least while looking for variants of Keziah I did come across
Kerenhappuch Hogsflesh
and emily and MR will know how nice that feels! :)
Paul
I found her too!! (or on checking my notes have just dicovered I actually have a Keremhoppuch Payton).
But there's actually a few of both name.......is it actually a name??? ???
I also found a Kerkaman Smith and a Kermounteen Harknett .... :)
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To answer my own question:
kerenhappuch - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary :
Keren-happuch
horn of the face-paint = cosmetic-box, the name of Job's third
daughter (Job. 42:14), born after prosperity had returned to
him.
Obviously I should have paid more attention in reliogious studies :)
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is it actually a name??? ???
Kerrenhappuch = "horn of antimony" (used as eyelash paint in Old Testament days). A daughter of Job, sister of Jemimah and - believe it or not - Keziah (which means cassia).
"Nowhere in the land were there found women as beautiful as Job's daughters."
Job 42:15
MR
You beat me to it Emily, but never mind!
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Not sure if this name change has been mentioned but a connected Keziah turned into a Sarah briefly in my tree.
Pam
;D
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On the marriage certifacte - it says they are both of full age - no middle names - he is a batchelor proffesion carman - father Richard Hunter - upholsterer --- Keziah was a spinster father William proffesion Smith - the witnesses were william mason (presume her father) and a charlotte Potter??? have no idea. It says they were both residents of clayton street at time of marriage.
I have them on 1881, 1891 and 1901 census's - they had in total at least 10 children that I know off.
My g grandmother was caroline mary hunter there daughter on her marriage certificate (to henry edward fowle)her fathers name was William bryant Hunter he was a witness and only signed it william hunter. They all lived together in 1901.
Hope this all makes sense to you all - thanks soooo much everyone
Love Jan xx
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I still can't find Kezia anywhere......and it's still driving me crazy.....it doesn't seem so likely to me that she was on a ship or in the army..
Any idea of names of her mother or siblings Jan?
I did wonder if Charlotte Potter could be a married sister of hers, but didn't manage to find a wedding of a Charlotte Mason to a ? Potter either.
I also tried Sarah..but still didn't see her.
Anyone know if any of the census for Lambeth was lost in 1861 or 1871?
Best regards, Emily
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I still can't find Kezia anywhere......and it's still driving me crazy.....
You and me both, emily! I've tried all sorts to track Kezia(h) down, without any joy at all. Where on earth is she hiding?
Paul
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Absolutly driving me insane!!!!
I did come up with this though from 1861
Mason 1856 Grandson Hammersmith St Peter Middlesex
Mary Ann Mason 1792 Sundbury, Middlesex, England Head Hammersmith St Peter Middlesex
when I looked at image it did say that mason is a grand daughter and not a grand son and the first name is missing??
I have no idea of her mothers name or any siblings there I am sorry emily.
- but Keziah's first child was named Caroline Mary - not sure if this could be a clue or not ???
Thanks everyone
Love Jan xx
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I take it you already have this - 1901
Keziah Hunter, 44, Wife, born Lambeth
Lambeth
London
RG13/409 Folio 41
Page 17
Annie
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Hi Annie
Yes I do - on the 1901 census there daughter Caroline is married to a Henry Fowle ( all living together with Kezia etc) - One of the children Albert was my grandad
Jan xx
this is what I have on her
Keziah Mason
1881 census aged 26
1891 census aged 34 (transcribed as Keriah)
1901 census aged 44
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To be honest I really haven't been keeping up with this - but I did come across this that I thought was interesting .............maybe thats why you can't find HER .... and there is an image - for sure its KEZIAH
Keziah Mason, 11, Son, born East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
East Dean
Ruardean Hill
Gloucestershire
RG10/2597 Folio 51
Page 4
Annie
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Hi again Annie
I know her father was called William and he was a Smith
Jan xx
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RECAP on challenge:
Since it's probably quite confusing as to who is who to those newly reading the thread it's about time I wrote a recap of what we know/don't know so that people can see what they might contribute.
I will split this up into parts so that it isn't too long.
Part 1 FLORENCE A. HUNTER...1860 onwards:
The original target of the May rootschat challenge was Florence A. Hunter.
She was born Amy Florence Hunter Sept. Quarter 1860, Pancras, Middlesex 1b, 13.
-did we confirm this?
Her parents were:
Richard Hunter b. 1814 Warcop, Westmorland, died June q. 1898 Islington?, an Upholsterer and later Pole maker
and Emily Hunter (nee Couchman) b.1817, London, d.Sept q.1892 Islington
They married 7/8/1845
There other children were:
William 1846 (married Keziah mason in 1874)---Jans ancestor.
Emily Jane 1849 (married Alfred William Cutler)
Richard Frank 1852 (married Hannah Murrell in 1873)
Edward Couchman 1854 (married Ellen B)
Elizabeth Fenn (year) (married Henry John Conolly in 1876)
Edith Beatrice 1863 (married John Shore Tate)
Florence Hunter married an Australian, Frederick Spicer in 1898, Marylebone
He came from Melborne, VIC and was possibly born in 1860, St Kilda to Frederick Spicer and Amelia Murrell---Jan can you confirm this?
He came to England before 1881 and in 1901 he and Florence are living in Camden Place, Cam. London and have a son Frederick (1.5years)
Do we know what happened to Florence after that??
Florence A. Hunter has been found in the census's 1860 onwards, but Jan is missing William (her brother) in 1861/1871 . He should be unmarried in both and possibly a carman....can anyone find him??
Best regards,
Emily
-
Update -part 2...Hunters from Westmorland:
Florences father Richard Hunter was born b. 1814 Warcop, Westmorland, to parents:
Henry Hunter b.1775 from Longmartin
&
Jane Gibson b.1779 from Warcop died 1873 Westmorland
They had other children:
Jane Hunter bn, 1809 Warcop
Henry Hunter - Christened 26th December 1811 Warcop
Margaret Hunter - Christened 11th November 1816 Warcop
Ann Hunter - Christened 25th July 1819 Warcop
Robert Hunter - Christened 24th Feburary 1822 Kirkby Stephen.
Jan has already found Henry and Jane in the 1841-1871 censuses I believe.
Henry Hunter (b. 1775) was the son of William Hunter and Bridgit Robinson and christened on the 14th April 1775 in Milburn, Westmorland.
William and Bridgit married 18/12/1768 Westmorland
their other children:
MARY HUNTER - Christened on 18th January 1781 in Milburn
ELIZABETH HUNTER - Christened on 6th January 1771 in Milburn
MARGARET HUNTER - Christened on 4th Feburary 1773 in Milburn
THOMAS HUNTER - Christened on 3rd July 1777 in Milburn
BARBARA HUNTER - Christened on 25th May 1769 in Milburn
I believe that we have no confirmed parents for William Hunter (bn ?(c. 1748ish??)
Possible parents for Bridget are:
ROBINSON Bridget d of Michael & Margraet [sic] bapt 30Jun1745 (Milburn PR)
Westmorland Gibsons:
Jane Gibsons parents were Robert Gibson 1854 Westmoreland and Margaret Perkins
their other children:
ANN GIBSON - Christened on 26th September 1799 in Warcop
SARAH GIBSON - Christened on 26th September 1793 in Warcop
ROBERT GIBSON - Christened on 14th November 1790 in Warcop
MARY GIBSON - Christened on 18th January 1777 in Warcop
PEGGY GIBSON - Christened on 9th January 1783 in Warcop
WILLIAM GIBSON - Christened on 28th October 1780 in Warcop
JONATHAN GIBSON - Christened on 13th February 1785 in Warcop
So if anyone happens to have a copy of the parish records for Warcop/Milburn for c.1700-1750 I'm sure Jane would love to hear from them.....
-
Update 3.......Couchmans, London:
Florences mother Emily Couchman was born to William Couchman and Elizabeth Fenn (who married 1814) in 1817 in London.
their other child:
Elizabeth Ann 1815 married Robert Heke Beedle in 1838
William Couchman was the son of Stephen and Elizabeth Couchman and christened on 26th June 1792.
Stephen and Elizabeth Couchman had a further 3 children...
Hannah Couchman - Born 24th June 1790 in London
Thomas Couchman - Born 3rd July 1791 in London
Stephen Couchman - Born 9th March 1794 in London
Elizabeth Fenn is possibly the daughter of James and Elizabeth Fenn on February 17th 1784 and christened on March 7th 1784 in St Alban Wood St, London.--is this confirmed??
There's also an Agnes Couchman Hunter born 19 August 1891, Tunbridge Wells, died August 1989 aged 98 whom we don't seem to have fitted in anywhere yet.....is she a relative Jan?
-
Update 4.....Please can someone find KEZIAH Mason!!!!
Jan's direct ancestor, William Hunter (Florence's sister), married a Keziah Mason in December 1874.
She can find Keziah and William in 1881-onwards, but we haven't yet managed to find Keziah in 1871 or 1861.
She should be born c. 1856 in Lambeth and has a father William, a smith (according to the marriage cert.)
Marriage witnesses include a Charlotte Potter and she named her first child Caroline Mary so these may be clues to possible family names.
On the wedding cert. her address is clayton st., Lambeth.
It would be great if someone could find her to help Jan......and to stop Paul and I going insane looking for her .
Best regards,
Emily
-
Thanks for the recap, emily!
In order to avoid committal, I decided to have another look for William Hunter in 1861 (without obvious joy, I hasten to add!)
I was wondering what the source was for the link between William and his father Richard? I know we have the marriage cert, but is there a birth certificate for William? What do we have to link William with Florence?
The William Hunter married to Keziah Mason is showing in 1881 as born Southwark, Surrey.
In the 1861 census, Richard Hunter (upholsterer from Brough) is with his family, all born St Pancras, Middlesex.
Sorry to seem a bit dim, but there is a William Hunter b1846 showing in 1861 living with parents Richard and Sophia in St George's East, London. Father is a ship smith.
So I'm wondering whether we are searching for two different William Hunters!
Any views?
Paul
(Doesn't make Keziah any easier to find! :) :))
-
I think that Jan must have the 1851 census details for the Hunters?
Also on the wedding cert. Williams father is down as an upholsterer (which I forgot on the recap I'm afraid)
Southwark and Lambeth are pretty close ( I think) I seem to remember also finding people switching between the two places of birth.
I'm just wondering if some of Lambeth has disappeared on the census (I have a couple of my own relatives that I didn't find there in 61 yet)
Or did the enumerator just have really bad handwriting ???
I did spot a Maria Mason today of about the right age living as a boarder somewhere in lambeth (Rg9/330)....it sounds as near to Kezia as anything else I could find so far ::)
Emily
-
If it's any consolation, I've spent ages looking for Keziah, and reckon she either used a totally different name until her marriage, or was out of the country...
There are Keziahs mistranscribed (or misrecorded) as Heziah, Reziah, Meziah, Keriah, Keviah, and so forth, but none corresponds even vaguely with Keziah .
MR
-
None of the William Masons living in Lambeth in 1861 is a smith. Perhaps you're right, Emily, and some of Lambeth hasn't been transcribed yet.
MR
-
Back to the poles.
In the corner of the world where I live, trees are still cut down, taken to pole yards, treated and then planted upright in the earth to carry wires of all sorts.
The time of the pole makers in the census would probably have been contemporary with the introduction of the telegraph and possibly electricity.
-
Interestingly, William's brother Edward was a timber merchant, and brother Richard a furniture dealer. A decidedly wooden family!
MR
-
I also tried looking for Keziah's birth in the freeBMD images yesterday...
If she's born in 1856 it would have to be Sept. quarter I think as I could read the ones for Mason K. (Or else I missed spotting her in one of the other quarters)
Unfortunately they don't have any images for 1855 or 57 at present.
But I'm also wondering if she wasn't known by something other than Kezia before she married.
My gr grandmother catherine is down in every census before she married as Caroline (and I've still no idea why) ???
-
Yes, emily - perhaps a middle name? Its very frustrating not being able to find her. We'll have to hang up our subscriptions to Ancestry at this rate! :)
Paul
-
hiya
yes elizabthe fenn is confirmed - father was James mother elizabet.
Have not fitted agnes couchman in yet am afraid.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at Keziah - I think the theory that she is using a different name in 1861 and 1871 must be right????? must it??? lol
Jan xx
-
I've spent a lot of time looking for the mysterious Keziah too ...
I'm intrigued by the collective determination that she has to be there SOMEWHERE. I've had whole families disappear down big black holes in the 81, 91 and 01 censuses, for instance, when according to birth certificates, etc, they had to be still there somewhere. I admit that after countless fruitless hours I've shrugged my shoulders and decided that their addresses must have been missed on the census nights - or they had a little bolthole they all gathered into every ten years in order to avoid being counted.
Does anyone have any comment on the actual completeness of the various censuses (esp. with reference to Ancestry)?
Ros
-
Hi Ros
My main comment would be on how 'interesting' the mistranscriptions can be. I found my Leonard Clark in 1871 as CONARD CLARKE.
Its hard to know how complete the coverage is, but I guess we keep looking don;t we - just in case! :)
cheers
Paul
-
Another one here been looking for Keziah in spare moments and as with everyone no success. Did wonder if she had been a servant in someones house at the time as it was traditional for mistresses to call all maids by the same name whatever their real name was.
While talking about the census, what about those who were working night shifts on the day of the census, such as miners. Were they included on the census?
-
Hi Nessie
I'vefound most of my mining ancestors on the censuses, and I am sure that they would be included whether they were working nights or not.
cheers
Paul
-
Hi, i've spent ages looking for keziah as well, drives you mad!!!
I also Paul have had some real corkers i meant to post on the mistranscriptions post.
HENRY SOLLARS IN 1901 IS HANRY GOLLIN !!!! I couldn't find him and posted it on Rootschat and in a couple of days a reply with that and it is clear as anything on the census.
She will be there somewhere.
Kev.
-
Hi all,
I have come to the conclusion that she is not calling herself Keziah and also the second name is mistranscribed - as I know her father was William and he was a smith - but I cant find him on either census's and I do belive him still to be alive as I am sure he is one of the witnesses on the marriage cert in 1874.
will have another search this afternoon!!
:-(((((((((((
Jan xx
-
Hi all,
Ros (Piedstilt), was it you that came across Agnes Couchman Hunter (bn 1891)? I can't find her anywhere.....and I was wondering if we could try and find a connection between her and Jan's Hunters...
I'd thought she might be easier to find than Keziah...
-
Yes I did. I've rather lost the plot and it took me a while to remember where I found her, but then I recalled typing Couchman Hunter into Ancestry and she popped up in the Death Index 1984-92. However, I've tried following her up and can't find her anywhere else!
I suppose it is conceivable that Hunter was her married name and the conjunction of 'Couchman Hunter' is just an annoying coincidence.
Anyway, the short answer is that she is no easier to find than Keziah!
Ros
-
Just spent another hour chasing Keziah without success. Beginning to have the feeling I am missing something obvious, but what I don't know.
-
Me too Nessie - trouble is i start out with a spare hour looking for her and end up all day, then get a head ache lol.
But ... on another ancestor I was tracing the same thing happened I couldnt find him for about 2 years then all of a sudden last weekend I found him in all but one census - I am now the proud owner of his birth certificate!!
Love Jan xx
-
Is it possible to do a timeline based on
Date/ Name/ Age/ Location/
For the main missing people Kezia and Couchman becasue I'm late to the game and I'm getting all mixed up :-[
-
sorry Boongie pam a timeline??????? not sure what you mean
Jan xx
-
Well, I've just spent another hour looking for Keziah! I re-checked the Clayton Street data on 1871 and there's nothing remotely right for her or William Hunter.
As Pam says, maybe if you could give us something showing the data from each census - age, place of birth, spellings - that you have already, something might just click!
cheers
Paul
-
ok will do -
marriage cert
Keziah Mason in 1874 age full, residence at time of marriage Clayton street, father william mason occupation smith. witnesses william mason and charlotte potter.
1881 census aged 26
Keziah Hunter abt 1856 Lambeth, Surrey, England Wife 8 King St, Lambeth, London, England
1891 census aged 34
Hunter, Keriah abt 1857 Lambeth Wife Lambeth London
1901 census aged 44
Keziah Hunter abt 1857 Lambeth Wife Lambeth London
Jan xx
-
The only thing that strikes me is the age differences in the census, that makes her 17 at the time of marriage if the later ones are correct. Have just spent a couple of hours trailing through the Lambeth census. Still no joy but I am sure she is there somewhere.
We have tried the usual, now is the time to think of something different and we may strike
lucky.
-
She's lied at some point. Either to be younger on the census or to get married without permission.
If it is the later then she may not be wholly trueful about her father?
Pam
-
Hi
I've just had a trawl for William Masons living in Surrey in 1861.
Of those who are heads of household, only one has an occupation remotely connected with metal - a brass finisher.
He has a son William aged 12 and a 4 year old daughter Emma, born Walworth.
RG9/337 Folio 97 Page 42
None of the other William Hunters looked like candidates to be Keziah's father. Maybe Keziah had another name?
I think I hav exhausted myself with Keziah and must reluctantly admit defeat!
Good hunting!
Paul
-
Just had another go, no luck but has just dawned on me with mistranslations, has anyone tried Smith as the surname and mason as the occupation? will give that one a try before I pack in for now.
-
going all through al my notes and tree again and again and again lol - two things i have noticed maybe completly irrevelent
1) keziah's firsrt two children were called
1 - mary
2 - Caroline Mary
Caroline mary called one of her children
in 1898 - Catherine Ethel
and in 1902 - Ethel Kezia
Jan xx
-
Isn't Mary's full name Marion from 1891 census?
-
In 1881 its mary?? but then again in 1881 catherine is carrie- it doesnt get any better does it??
Jan xx
-
Jan,
Hard to keep up with this one!
Aaaaarggghh. I too have looked till blue in the face for the mysterious Kezia in 1861 and 71. I tried a William and/or Mason and occupation Smith in 61 without success too. I think I looked through every Mason household with William as head in Lambeth and Southwark and Kennington without anything jumping out at me. Probably repeating what others have done :(
Sorry, tale of woe and lack of ideas now :-X
I'll have another go when I'm fresh, so to speak. We still have a bit of time to find her!
Has she been checked for on the BVRI ? Don't take any notice of me if this has been done aaaages ago.
J :)
-
In 1881 its mary?? but then again in 1881 catherine is carrie- it doesnt get any better does it??
Jan xx
And Carrie turns into Caroline in the 1891.
Who I guess is...
HUNTER, Caroline Mary
Births
March Q 1878
Lambeth Vol: 1d Page: 409
Sorry I know none of this is getting closer.
Have you got any birth certs that confirm Keziah's maiden name?
-
This is such a long thread now I do really apologies if I'm repeating others.
There is a Kezia Smith bn 1857 dau of William Josh Smith in Bethnal Green in 1861 but he isn't a mason he's a confectioner poster.
I'd follow her through census but I'm in work and not sure if she has been investigated?
P
-
I realised this morning that the one place I hadn't yet looked for Keziah was actually on rootschat....and I just came across this post:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic=41046.0.html
It seems to be the same Mason family that Shanko and Jan are both looking for??? I will PM Shanko to ask if it could be....as Charlottes address at marriage seems to be the same as Keziah's??
Not that it takes us any closer to finding them necessarily..but could it explain who Charlotte Potter is?
Emily
P.S: Jonathon, you must really have spent a long time looking for Masons this month ;)
-
Inspired, emily! :)
It would be nice to find Keziah by the end of the month!
cheers
Paul
-
Ah such pleasure in seeing others besides myself totally frustrated by looking for my Masons.
hehe
Shanko
;D
-
I just wish I'd thought to check sooner ::)
.....hopefully Jan will look at rootschat soon and then she and Shanko might be able to console each other in their search for William, Keziah and Charlotte.
I've now checked rootschat to see if anyone else was looking for William Hunter in 1861/71....but no luck there I'm afraid.
-
Perhaps, though, Jan and Shanko can recommend a good therapist for the rest of us who are now tearing our hair out! :)
-
A good therapist??? Oh no you'll soon be running from the little men in their little white coats!
:P
-
To recap.....for people that don't live in more Eastern parts of the world..(or get up early)
It seems like Jan and Shanko may both be searching for the same Mason family in 1861/71 and that the known family grouping might then be for 1861:
William Mason 50ish? blacksmith
Charlotte Mason 10
Keziah Mason 5 bn Lambeth
living somewhere Lambeth/Southwark/Kennington and very badly transcribed ::)
Emily
-
living somewhere Lambeth/Southwark/Kennington and very badly transcribed ::)
Or on the run from old Septic Knuckles the rentman, and hiding behind the furniture every time they hear a knock at the door.....
;D ;D ;D
MR
-
Thanks goodness someone's got their thinking cap on Emily. Well spotted!
As you say, I'm Masonized :) Still can't find 'em though :-X
Jonathan
-
Btw
don't know if anyone's mentioned that Keziah might be down as Kizzy........ ;)
Helen
-
Could they possibly have been in the workhouse in 1861?
-
They'd still be enumerated, even if in the workhouse - but admittedly, some of the enumeration can be vague. :)
-
Well...
I can find a Charlotte Mason aged 20 in the 1871 census, born Southwark and listed as 'Wife's Sister', but the wife is a Frances Carrington, born c1844 in Southwark, husband Richard.
I can't find a marriage of a Frances and a Richard Carrington.
Probably a blind alley.
Paul
-
You are as bad as me ;D I have just been through Massons and Charlottes born the right year.
-
Do we have any idea of the maiden name of Williams wife? maybe they were staying with grandparents.
-
OK just for the record this is desperate but the only Mason who is a Smith that I could find in 1861 in roughly the right area...
3 Orchard Row, Camberwell St Giles Surrey
Joseph Mason abt 1825 Warwickshire, England Head
Martha Mason abt 1822 Warwickshire, England Wife
Mary J Mason abt 1852 Warwickshire, England Daughter
William J Mason abt 1850 Warwickshire, England Son
Joseph is a Smith
RG9/381
Folio: 28
Page: 22
Jonathan
-
More Masons and I'm throwing these in because of the address (close to Clayton St? ) and names ...
1861
6 Clayton Place? Kennington Road, Lambeth
William Mason abt 1798 Lambeth, Surrey, England Head
Charlotte Mason abt 1815 Suffolk, England Wife
Eliza C Mason abt 1850 Newington Daughter
Mary A Mason abt 1847 Newington Daughter
Sarah Mason abt 1843 St Saviours Daughter
Anne Mason abt 1838 Clerkenwell Daughter
William H Mason abt 1845 Newington Son
Richard Watts abt 1799 Boarder
Can't make out William's occupation (could someone else have a look)
RG9/356
Folio: 41A
Page: 12
Desprit
J :(
-
Paul - Yep I already have that census for that Charlotte
Nessie - Run now or you'll end up like Jan and myself!
Jonathan - No sorry the father for my Charlotte and Jans keziah is definately William, I have Charlottes marriage certificate to my 3rd Gt Grandfather
Thanks for trying guys
Shanko
;D
-
Hi folks,
I'm Jan's other half. Just phoned her to let her know of the developments as she's at work - she'd be very interested in swapping info with you Shanko. How did you know about Keziah ? We didn't know about Charlotte.
Rick.
-
Hiya
Keziah is a witness on my Charlottes marriage certificate as is their brother William
If she PM's me I will send my email to her so we can contact eachother that way
Shanko
;D
-
p.s. Think that occupation says "jeweler"
Rick.
-
William wasn't a jeweller when Charlotte was married
Plus Charlotte had no middle name, all birth certificates of her children only have Charlotte same as her marriage and on all other census
Shanko
-
More Masons and I'm throwing these in because of the address (close to Clayton St? ) and names ...
1861
6 Clayton Place? Kennington Road, Lambeth
William Mason abt 1798 Lambeth, Surrey, England Head
Can't make out William's occupation (could someone else have a look)
Could it be 'Jeweler'?
Paul
OOPS - who gets the prize for being slowest today? :)
-
This is a great thread. A warm welcome to you Rick ;D
I've been looking at the IGI and there is a Matilda Mason christened 26 NOV 1851 St Mary's, Lambeth, Surrey her parents are William Cottrell Mason and mother Elizabeth.
Any sign of Matilda's in the family?
-
Pam,
No Matilda at all in the family line Im afraid :(
I actually put in a post a long time ago on here regarding Masons but didnt get anywhere then. I did however find a William and Keziah Mason as parents but they were born and bred in Cambs so that put that at a dead end
Shanko
;D
-
Here's another little oddity...
CAROLINE MASON OR DERON
Christening: 05 JUL 1840 Renfrew Road Workhouse, Lambeth, Surrey
F: William Deron
M: Caroline Mason
Pam
-
Thanks for the welcome Pam and hi to everyone else too.
Don't know of any Matildas by the way, but before today all we had was Kezia's father's name and occupation. We didn't know of any siblings at all.
Shanko - the witnesses on Keziah's marriage cert were William Mason (we assumed her father) and Charlotte Potter. If you know of a brother William, I guess this could be him. Potter isn't Charlotte Mason's married name is it ?
Back to work now, but we'll catch up with you later !
Rick.
-
Rick
Nope, Potter is not even in my Mason lines
Be in touch soon!
Shanko
;D
-
There's definately something strange about Clayton street Lambeth.....
I've just seen another post on the London board with someone asking about a family that lived there in 1870's.....a Rose family I think......maybe they were the next-door neighbours to the Masons :)
Is it a very large street?
I'm beginning to think that Lambeth in 1861 is a bit like the Bermuda triangle......
Could it be that the local metalworkers association went on a family outing to Ireland that week? I have a family of tinsmiths/ironmongers of my own missing from Lambeth too.
Just before the men in white coats arrive......I checked the channel islands and Isle of Mann ???.....and they weren't hiding there. There were a couple of Masons visiting Guernsey from England but their first names didn't seem very connected.
Emily :)
-
Hi everyone - many thanks for all you are doing - its great!! Shenko look forward to hearing from you :-)
Rick is typing out some more information for a post on here coz i'm a bit hopeless and get easily confused! lol
Thanks again everyone
Love Jan xx
-
Hi again folks - here are some answers to your questions from Jan and some other information which may be of use:
Caroline Mary Hunter is her great grandmother - she married Henry Fowle. Jan's aunt remembered that Caroline's mother was called Keziah and that they lived in Jonathan Street in Lambeth.
In 1901, William and Keziah Hunter are living at 28 Jonathan Street with their now married daughter and her husband Caroline and Henry Fowle. Jan's grandfather Albert is one year old. She doesn't have Caroline's birth certificate.
On their marriage certificate, William and Keziah are supposed to be of full age, but this doesn't match the census information for Keziah so she probably lied about her age. She was probably born in either 1856 or 57.
We have never found Keziah prior to the 1881 census. We've checked the IGI and trawled 1837online for Keziah's birth but haven't checked the BIVRI.
On Caroline's marriage certificate she gives her father's name as William Bryant Hunter.
William and Keziah's other children with approx dates were:
Marion (Mary) 76
Henry Thomas 80 (d82)
Ernest 83
Florence 86
Arnold 87
Bessie 90 (d94)
Katherine 96
Frederick 98
Rick
-
I confess I have lost the plot a bit here, but is this any use?
Birth Sarah Kezia MASON Bermondsey Sep 1852 1d 72
Apologies if I am wide of the mark here (watching the football at the same time!!)
-
could you please stop watching footie and give this your utmost attention!!!!!
lol
many thanks
Love Jan xx
who is also watching football :-)
-
Oh dear - 3 nil
I think I should stop watching!!
:'( ;D
-
Good idea!! 3-0 stop watching now and concentrate on Keziah Mason!!
-
Blimey can you belive that 3-3 .......guess thats the end of you searching then lol
-
I found a Keziah Mason in 1871
but without family I'm afraid
25 Molyneaux St. Marylebone
Kezia Mason Lodger age 21 Machinist b. Hampton Wick Mddsx
Other household members
James and Fanny Watson head and wife
Amy Jenkins Lodger
Annie
-
A brief respite before the game goes into extra time :)
I wonder if the Bryant Hunter is significant for William? Sounds like a surname - but it can't be his mother's maiden name as that is Couchman. Wonder where it comes from?
cheers
Paul
-
Paul
we thought that exactly!!!! ooopsie into extra time!!!
we have hunted high n low for a bryant connection
Love Jan xx
-
Liverpool's historic win tonight should inspire us! :)
Looks like this Challenge may go to extra time, but I'm sure we'll finaly find William and Keziah in 1861 and 1871 ...
won't we? :-\
cheers
Paul
-
1871
68 Gt. Bland St St Mary Newington
William Mason Head 71 GOLDSMITH b. Lambeth
Charlotte Mason Wife 55 b Suffolk
William H Mason Son 26 Goldsmith b. Newington Surrey
Eliza Mason Daughter 21 " b. Newington Surrey
Mary Pettit Visitor 25 " B. Greenwich
Well he is a "smith" ::)
-
Hi Annie
Yep I have this family in 1851, 1861 and 1871 and William is Goldsmith on 1851 and jeweler in 1861
Thanks anyways
Shanko
;D
Hows the Noddy one going?
-
Boy I wish he was mine -Noddy - I mean - like you say no harm in me adopting him is there??
Sorry it's not your William..I thought "you never know..."!!
Is this cool or what - this being your family too ?
Good Luck Girl!
Annie
::) ::)
-
Hi Shanko
What makes you rule out the family Annie found? Is this not the best we've got up until now? :)
cheers
Paul
-
No harm at all since no one else has claimed him so hes yours! An adopted Noddy rebel for your very own :)
I have been doing this family for many moons and finally have a breakthrough so yeppers it is so cool. I just hope Jan has inheritted the 'short' family trait or boy I won't be happy ;D
Thanks for your input though
Luck to you too
Shanko
-
Hi Shanko
What makes you rule out the family Annie found? Is this not the best we've got up until now? :)
cheers
Paul
I am looking for a connection for what I know of this family from family letters, stories etc and even the family above Annie put up which I do have earlier yrs for census wise there is nothing to really say they are our family.
I know on Jans marriage for Keziah William is a Smith but on my Charlotte he is Blacksmith also both girls have no middle names and neither Keziah nor Charlotte are on those census.
Paul I wish they were our family of Mason's
Shanko
;D
-
That's helpful to know, Shanko. They're very good at hiding, these Masons!
Surprising not to find them on two consecutive censuses, though - Major Mistranscrption (nice chap just a little deaf from the cannon :), with the blunt pencil in the driving rain can perhaps be blamed for their absence from one of the censuses, and (as has been hinted at earlier in this thread) it could be that there are gaps in the available data for Lambeth.
But the clock's ticking down and we don;t seem to be any closer.
:(
cheers
Paul
-
Ahhhh but we have gotten closer in one sense ......... if it wasn't for Emily contacting me or posting my Mason interests on here , Jan and myself would be missing eachothers Mason searches but now we can work together
Shanko
;D
-
In 1871 this guy is with several other Hunters - did you get him yet??
Edward Couchman Hunter son 1854 St Pancras, Middlesex, England
I wrote it all out once - and lost it in cyberspace.... but will do it again if it's
needed!! ??? ???
-
I have him thanks Annie
Jan xx
-
Oh oh oh, I have an idea for Rootschat Challenge for June!
To find a Charlotte Mason born abt 1850-1852 Bermondsey, Southwark, Lambeth (who knows anymore!), father William Mason a blacksmith and a sister Keziah Mason born (lambeth, Southwark maybe) abt 1856-1857
Any takers?
;D
-
Shanko,
I'm pondering if that is a good idea or a bad idea :D
Jonathan ;)
-
I didn't have to ponder long at all! :)
Paul
-
1871 All Hallows Barking London
Frank C Halle Visitors son 1870 London England
Mary A Halley visitor 1846 London England
Charlotte Mason wife 1826 London England
Charlotte E Mason Daughter 1859 London England
Isabella E Mason daughter 1861 London England
James S Mason Son 1863 London England
Rosina Mason Daughter 1867 London England
William Mason Head 1802 London England Beadle of Tower Ward
I have no idea what a Beadle would do.... :P
have you tried all these spellings???
Mason, Massen, Machen, Machent, Machin, Machon
If nothing else maybe cousins??!!
-
Ohhhhh Shanko
thats a great idea for the June challenge!! lol
(I did laugh when I read that).
As you can all imagine a lot of emails are being written by me and Shanko ~ I never would have belived a few weeks back you would have found me a cousin!!!!!!!
I know its driven a few of you insane ~ but you still stayed about
many many thanks to you all
Love Jan xx
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Want a laugh Jan? ;D Every time I put a K into the search I get Keziah filled in, so I can't forget her even if I wanted to ;D
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Ohhhh Nessie that did make me :) :) :) :) :) :)
xx
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There are Keziahs mistranscribed (or misrecorded) as Heziah, Reziah, Meziah, Keriah, Keviah, and so forth, but none corresponds even vaguely with Keziah .
MR
I had my Keziah mistranscribed as KENAH in the 1851 (LDS) Census.
BD
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Checked for Kenah Mason, that didn't work either :'(
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Ah well ... its surely some consolation at least that a Google search for Keriah or Keria Mason now lists this thread as the 3rd out of some 500-odd documents.
Maybe someone will come across this thread someday and say 'That's my ggg grandmother!' :)
cheers
Paul
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There was a young girl called Keziah
Who drove our poor blood pressure higher.
We sought and we sought,
But she would not be caught:
Keziah could not have been shyer!
MR 8)
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:) :) :)
Nice one MR!
Paul
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Still read down all the other names when I am looking at census returns, who knows William may have moved to a job somewhere else for those years ;D
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Hi all,
If I've got the date right we're now down to the last day of the rootschat May challenge and the last official day of saerching for Keziah...sorry for neglecting the challenge somewhat over the weekend but I was at a symposium in Yokohama.
For June, the new rootschat poet laureate Manchester Rambler has been nominated to pick a new random challenge candidate and has kindly accepted this task.
In the meantime let the search continue.....
Jan and Shanko...if there are any other loose ends in the Hunter/Mason and etc family that you think we might be able to clear up......now is the time to ask....
Best regards,
Emily
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Emily and Everyone
Thank you soooooo very much for all you have done for me on the May rootschat challenge ~ it has been great of you!!
I am so sorry my Keziah was such a nitemare and I promise that when I do eventually find her (and I will one day) I will let you all know
Many thanks again
Love Jan xx
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Hi Jan
I'm sure that all of us will continue to keep a weather eye out for Keziah ... she's lived with us for a month so I doubt we're going to ditch her now! :)
Thanks are due to Emily for steering this challenge so ably over the course of the last month - the recap was really useful, and even though we didn't find Keziah the fact that Jan is now in touch with Shanko is a great outcome.
Looking forward to the June challenge, MR - post a link to it on this thread so that we're all reminded to look out for it.
cheers
Paul
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Thank you so much Paul
xx
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Farewell Keziah - May is over, and a new challenge begins at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,62599.0.html
The queen is dead - long live the king!
MR
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I found this - is this any good ??????
Name Mason, Sarah Kezia
Type Births
Quarter September
Year 1852
District Bermondsey (1837-69)
County London Surrey
Volume 1d Page 72
Well - its London :P :P !!!!
By the way its 6.30pm May 31st here.......
Annie ::)
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Ok folks, it's now June 1st (in almost all of the world I think) so it's my duty to declare the official end of the May rootschat challenge.
Many thanks to everyone for their contributions and to Jan and Shanko for allowing us to delve univited into their trees.
I won't add a whole recap here as I think we don't have anything definate to add to the one a few pages ago...many sightings of almost possible Mason families but none which seem to fit exactly yet.
At Pauls suggestion (and because I don't know how to do the locking thing anyway) I am leaving this thread unlocked at present......so if anyone does see Keziah or William in 1861/71 they could let us know.
Jan and Shanko may I wish you future success in finding your Mason family together....
Manchester Rambler has now set a June challenge for us which can be found at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,62599.0.html
It seems we are looking for Robertson's now.
Annie....I wonder if the Sarah Kezia birth isn't a little early for "our" Kezia, I wonder if it could be another sister though as Bemondsey and Lambeth are very close.
Best wishes,
Emily
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Had a closer look at Sarah Kezia Mason and found a marriage for her in Southwark in 1876, so we can rule her out now.
Nice try Annie !
Rick.
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Well I have been talking to my aunty back home in England who has called my Charlottes 2nd childs Gt Gt Grandson and he has lots of information on my Charlottes family as his family were sticklers on keeping records, the Keziah Mason sister of my Charlotte never married.
She died at the age of 20 not long after Charlotte married the first time. My Keziah died of Lymphadenoma (hope they gave me the right spelling)what ever that is.
It appears Jans keziah and my Keziah are two different people :(
Strange though how two Masons lived in the same street at the time of their marriages must of been a long street, then again there was a lot of Masons there at the time.
Not good news but one can now put closure to this.
Shanko
PS My Charlotte also had two children out of wedlock and Keziah was godmother to them, so my 2nd Gt Grandfather must of decided to make an honest woman of her and married a few years later.
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Hi there!
I was very interested in the early stages of this challenge email thread, it's what lead me to RootsChat. Thanks for the replies I have already read on another thread, sorry to those who may be unnecessarily hearing from me again! Thanks also to RootsChat for reopening this thread.
Edward Couchman Hunter was my gg grandfather. My g grandfather was his oldest son, Edward Cyril Hunter, who I noted was staying with his grandparents, Richard and Emily at the time of one census.
Also I was interested in the theory someone hinted at that Edward's sister Florence Annie Hunter may have been a singer with the Doyley Carte Opera Company. I have followed this up, but cannot prove she is the same person, but it is interesting. Her niece definitely was a singer/actress. This is the only surviving child of her eldest sister, Emily Jane Hunter, and her real name was Elsa Cutler, she was quite successful.
Emily Jane and her husband Alfred Cutler were in business with her father Richard, as polemakers, making curtain furniture, stair rods and other decorative interiors products. The business still runs to this day, and has a Royal Warrant. Richard died in 1898, Emily sadly only a year later, 1899, and Alfred took the business public in 1900/1901. Richard had had other business interests: where the Maples Building stands today was formerly the Maples department store. Until around 1871 the site was in fact half Maples and half Richard Hunter's. There was something of a joint refurbishment in around 1871, poor attention to detail on the Maples side caused most of the block to collapse, at least six people died. I don't know what kind of settlement there was between them, and would love further information and pictures, but I haven't been successful yet.
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Elsa took the stage name of Peggy Furber, after marrying Douglas Furber, who in 1917 hit the big time as a lyricist with the song The Bells of St Marys. His real name was Lewin Michael Sultan. Elsa, (Peggy) doesn't seem to associate with this name. Before this, as an amateur, he lists his profession as stockbroker. She seems to have fully assumed the stage name, and I have found details of their travelling to the U.S. many times, and of their son Mortimer (known as John). His real name was Mortimer Lewin Sultan, but again he appears not to have used this. In the 1939 census I find them living in Angmering on Sea, only five minutes from where my grandparents were living, as my family had retired to the Worthing area.
My grandmother married Major Leonard Cyril Hunter in London in 1935. His father Edward Cyril had moved to Staffordshire, and was an electrical engineer. I can only assume he left London partly as a result of the family hiatus caused by Edward his father, but sadly one upshot seems to have been a relative estrangement from the largely London based (at this time) Hunter family. I would dearly love to find out if in fact there were still family connections keeping some communication going. I find it interesting that Leonard Cyril, my grandfather, having trained as a chemist, found himself in London before 1935, surely he must have already been in touch or looked up his local cousins, aunts and uncles in North London? I do not know how/why he met my grandmother, Doris Florence Notson. My grandmother's family were Hancocks and Notsons, all established London families. I have discovered similarities in professions, through publishing and also the stage which could link them. My grandmother had an uncle (Tommy, not his real name) who was good friends with Dan Leno, and I have a picture of them together in a large group of Dan's Dainties, from 1900 in a charity cricket match.
Because my grandmother was such a young widow, and then remarried twenty years later, apart from my real grandfather's sister Cynthia, I cannot find anything, nothing, connecting her to the Hunter family, which is such a shame and so frustrating.
Interestingly if you have read Ferdinand Mount's great biography of his Aunt Munca: Kiss Myself Goodbye, she lived just around the corner from Peggy and Douglas, and being the show business types I feel they must have known one another, even if it was only in the local private club. I would love to know if this were true, they seem similar types. I would also dearly love to know, even if it was only up until my grandfather was killed in the war in 1943, if all the cousins were on good terms, or even all knew they were all living just around the corner from each other, I have no idea. It wasn't just my grandparents, but Emily Doris Hunter/Sawyer's descendents who had local connections as well: the Franklin Hepburns (descendants through the Sawyers) and of course Ellen Blanche, Edward's wife, and their daughter May Louise retired to Hove, and John Leslie appears to have gone as well. At the least, as Ellen Blanche was my grandfather Leonard's grandmother, and present at his parents wedding, and as she lived until 1935 ( the year my grandparent married) I feel there must have been some contact. I have searched and searched for a local newspaper article covering my grandparents wedding, which I assume would have been held in the Hornsey/Muswell Hill area but can't find anything.
Mortimer Furber was a musical conductor, I have found many entries for him in The Stage etc. In the early fifties he married the opera singer Gita Furber de la Fuente Chaudhuri. She lived to just shy of 100, they retired to Malta, and she passed away in 2017. They were at his parents house in Angmering for the 1939 census as well, and interestingly there are other De La Fuentes in the Worthing area, one of whom I know well, but I can't seem to link them.
Anyway, I hope this proves of interest. If anyone has any information linking any of the above, or better still correspondence from Edward Cyril Hunter of Staffordshire and /or Leonard and Doris Hunter of Sompting, West Sussex I would dearly love to see it!
Thanks for reading
Nickolas Couchman Hunter
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Welcome to Rootschat Nickolas and it's good to see that such an old thread can still be found on the internet and be of interest to people.
It's also good to finally find out what type of poles Richard was making and that it was still related to his previous upholstery work.
I'm also pleased that after re-reading all of this I had a look on ancestry and found a tree with Keziah Mason in and have now finally found her in the 1861 census!
It seems that her parents are William Mason and Charlotte Lefevre, but that William died before 1861 and Charlotte remarried a George Potter so Keziah is down as Keziah Potter in 1861 at 92 Milk Street Lambeth. This also probably explains the Charlotte Potter who was a witness at her wedding.
Best of luck with your Hunter searches Nickolas. Hopefully Jan or Shanko will see your messages and you might be able to share information on your respective parts of the Hunter families with each other.
Emily