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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: lgardner2000 on Monday 06 June 05 08:47 BST (UK)

Title: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: lgardner2000 on Monday 06 June 05 08:47 BST (UK)
Hello,
I wonder if someone could help me please. Trying to find Peter Yorkstone who was born about 1847 in Scotland (I dont know where). He married Isabel.  They had four children. The first being born in 1882.

Trying to find any other family members.

Thanks
Lisa
Title: Re: 1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 04 July 05 23:03 BST (UK)
Hi Lisa
The IGI has the birth/Christening of a Peter YORKSTON in 1846:
PETER YORKSTON 
Birth:  29 AUG 1846   & Christening:  06 SEP 1846   Larbert, Stirling, Scotland
Father:  ALEXANDER YORKSTON  & Mother:  ANN DONALDSON   

The 1881 CD set soundex' the name as YORSTON also - actually I think there are more of this spelling than there are YORKSTON/E.

I am happy to look up the 1881 Census for you - but first to try help narrow him down: - do you know where Peter was just before he married Isabel? Or where they married? Her maiden name? Peter's occupation?  Also, the names of their children (even tho they were born 1882 & after - they can still be clues in locating the parents and grandparents).

Cheers  :D
Anne
Title: Re: 1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: lgardner2000 on Wednesday 03 August 05 09:11 BST (UK)
all i know is he had a son called Thomas Ramsey Yorkstone born 1883 in Boston, Linclonshire.
Thanks
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: lgardner2000 on Thursday 04 August 05 12:06 BST (UK)
Hi.
Found Peter in 1891 and 1901 living in Lincolnshire. This is it below. But if anyone has the 1881 census or others would be most helpful.

1891
RG12 2574 47 22
1 Blue Street Boston Lincs
Peter Yorkstone head 44 iron brass founder Scotland
Isabella wife 41 Scotland
Mary J dau 9 Boston Lincs
Thomas R son 7 Boston
Annie D dau 4 Boston
Harold M son 2 Boston

Thanks
Lisa
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: ibi on Thursday 04 August 05 16:15 BST (UK)
In my own tree I've come across several variants on YORKSTON[E], all in the Edinburgh area extending out to West Lothian, including the dropping of the "K" and the "K" & "T".

A problem in the records is that YORSON is a surname in its own right, - from Orkney or Shetland if my memory serves me correctly (or was it Ireland?).

I have an Alexander Yorkston b 1814 in Larbert, but he married Catherine (Kitty)
[PH/F]AIR

ibi
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: AMBLY on Thursday 04 August 05 22:46 BST (UK)
Hi Lisa
Have found Peter in C81, under spelling: JORKSTONE, same place as 1891. It indicates he owned the business he worked at and employed 1 man? ALso shows his niece with them, so following her may help you get back further on Peter  :D
There is a likely IGI birth for her in Haddington, ELN on IGI.



   Dwelling:   1 Blue St
   Census Place:   Boston, Lincoln, England
   Source:   FHL Film 1341767     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 3218    Folio 31    Page 22
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
Peter JORKSTONE   M   34    M   Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Master Of Ironfoundry 1 Man
Isabella JORKSTONE   M   31    F   Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
Margaret JORKSTONE       6    F   Scotland
   Rel:   Neice

Cheers
Anne
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: AMBLY on Thursday 04 August 05 23:38 BST (UK)
Hi Again Lisa
Here is C81 details of Thomas YORKSTONE/Euphemia McCREA/McCREE, parents of the IGI Margaret born 1874 Haddington.  You will see that the daughter Margaret is with them here.  It could still be that Margaret was listed twice - once with uncle Peter in Lincoln (where she actually was) and once with parents (where she was not, but they counted her in anyway either in error, or in mis-understanding that they should  not state not-present children to the Census taker) - I have come across this more than once in Censii. What is interesting here is that Thomas' father is in the house.

Dwelling:   Ayres Wynd
   Census Place:   Prestonpans, Haddington, Scotland
   Source:   FHL Film 0224027     GRO Ref    Volume 718    EnumDist 4    Page 15
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
Thomas YORKSTON   M   34    M   Dunbar, Haddington, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Maltman
Euphemia YORKSTON   M   30    F   Isle Of Skye, Inverness, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
   Occ:   Maltmans Wife
Margaret YORKSTON       6    F   Haddington, Haddington, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
John A. YORKSTON       4    M   Haddington, Haddington, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
Daniel YORKSTON       2    M   Prestonpans, Haddington, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
John YORKSTON   W   68    M   Innerwick, Haddington, Scotland
   Rel:   Father
   Occ:   Labourer

The other (I think more likely) scenario of course is that the Margaret with Peter in Lincolnshire is not the daughter of Thomas above :--as follows:--

There is another Margaret YORKSTONE born 1873 on IGI: to Alexander YORKSTONE and Ann HAMILTON. This is probably the C81 family:
Dwelling:   4 Malvern Place
   Census Place:   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Source:   FHL Film 0203638     GRO Ref    Volume 644-3    EnumDist 21    Page 17
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
Alexander YORKSTON   M   39    M   Larbert, Stirling, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Carter
Ann YORKSTON   M   36    F   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
Agnes YORKSTON       13    F   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Millworker
Ann YORKSTON       12    F   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Janet YORKSTON       10    F   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Alexander YORKSTON       4    M   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
Isabella YORKSTON       1    F   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur

Their daughter Margaret, not present and assuming she was still living, would be abt 7 going on 8, at C81 time. It could be the age was given as 8 and misread as 6, and she was with her uncle Peter in Lincoln.  Or that Uncle got it wrong :D .  Noting that Alexander above  was born in Larbert Stirling (as was the Peter I found in 1846)

The Lanark location of the family also sort of ties in with the IGI Marriage 1871 in Blythswood Lanark of a Peter YORKSTON & Isabella BELL......I couldn't find that couple in C81 Scotland, lending more weight to the idea that it's them in Lincolnshire.

FREEBDM gives these Boston  YORKSTON/E:
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Alexander YORKSTON died Jun Qtr 1873
Annie Donaldson YORKSTONE born Sep Qtr 1886
Thomas Ramsay YORKSTONE born Sep Qtr 1883
Herbert YORKSTONE born  & died  Boston 1875 Jun Qtr.
May Isabel YORKSTONE married Dec Qtr 1905

The daughter Annie's middle name Donaldson is the maiden name of the mother of Peter YORKSTON born 1846 Larbert.

The IGI gives a number of children to the Alexander YORKSTON & Ann DONALDSON of Larbert Stirling besides a Peter & Alexander;  another son was John Donaldson YORKSTONE: and this is likely him in C81:
   Dwelling:   19 Rosemount St
   Census Place:   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
   Source:   FHL Film 0203639     GRO Ref    Volume 644-3    EnumDist 50    Page 14
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
John YORKSTON   M   36    M   Larbert, Stirling, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Painter
Ann YORKSTON   M   33    F   Govan, Lanark, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife


There is a good photo of Blue Street, Boston, Lincs here (last one on page)
http://www.bostonuk.com/gallery/neilwright/index4.htm

Cheers
Anne
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: lgardner2000 on Friday 12 August 05 09:10 BST (UK)
hi. Where did u get all these igi records from? I cant find them.

Have you got any info on the 1851/61/71 census.

thanks
lisa
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: AMBLY on Friday 12 August 05 13:11 BST (UK)
Hi Lisa
Sorry, I have no access to any census other than 1881. I know 1871 is available on ScotlandsPeople, as well as 1881, 1891 and 1901.  Bits and pieces of Census 41, 51 and 61 are all over web to varying degrees. But perhaps some other rootschatter will be more able to advise on those years.

Do you mean you cant's find the specific records I found on IGI, or can't find IGI itself?  http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true

Make sure your are searching in the "International Genealogy Index" not "Ancestral File"  or Pedigree File"

I'll PM you my email address  - if you are still having trouble with IGI, email me and I'll be happy to help you  :)

Cheers
Anne
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: lgardner2000 on Friday 12 August 05 13:37 BST (UK)
hello,

Thanks for you help but i have now found the igi's. I didnt know that info was on there, i just thought it was the 1881 census that you could get on there.

Whats the web address for the scotlandsPeople?

Thanks
Lisa :)
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: AMBLY on Friday 12 August 05 14:11 BST (UK)
Hi Lisa

Scotlands People is here:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
I should say, it's a pay per view site - it's an excellent service, but if you do use it, it pays to plan your searches out beforehand so you don't waste your credits.
I didn't engage brain before sorry - obviously Scotlands People is for the Scottish records  not English .....

Varying degrees of Census records etc for Scotland (and England) are on FREE CEN:
http://freecen.rootsweb.com/
http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Cheers
Anne
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 23 January 12 20:42 GMT (UK)
In my own tree I've come across several variants on YORKSTON[E], all in the Edinburgh area extending out to West Lothian, including the dropping of the "K" and the "K" & "T".
I have an Alexander Yorkston b 1814 in Larbert, but he married Catherine (Kitty)
[PH/F]AIR

ibi, if you are still there, can we compare notes? I too have this Alexander Yorkston in my tree but with a bit of a question mark.

I definitely have Janet Yorkston, married in Larbert on 14 November 1819 to Peter Hogg, had two sons James b 1820 and John b 1823/4, then died before 1826 because Peter then married Margaret Russell. I have been told that her parents were John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, but I have yet to find any evidence to confirm this.

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 23 January 12 22:12 GMT (UK)
Here is C81 details of Thomas YORKSTONE/Euphemia McCREA/McCREE, parents of the IGI Margaret born 1874 Haddington.  You will see that the daughter Margaret is with them here.  It could still be that Margaret was listed twice - once with uncle Peter in Lincoln (where she actually was) and once with parents (where she was not, but they counted her in anyway either in error, or in mis-understanding that they should  not state not-present children to the Census taker) - I have come across this more than once in Censii. What is interesting here is that Thomas' father is in the house.

I believe that this Margaret in East Lothian is a red herring.

Notice that her father Thomas is exactly the same age as Peter in Boston - 34 years old. Therefore if he were Peter's brother, he would be (a) his twin and (b) in the same household as Peter in the census. There is no record of Peter having a twin brother named Thomas or anything else, and there is no Thomas in the family in the 1851 or 1861 census. All but two of the Yorkstons in East Lothian in 1851 were also born in East Lothian, and there is no Peter among them.

It was Peter Yorkston, son of Alexander Y and Ann Donaldson, who married Isabella Bell, daughter of James Bell and Isabella Winning, in Glasgow on 9 June 1871.

Ann Donaldson died in Larbert in 1870; she was described as married to Alexander Yorkston, and in her son's marriage certificate she is described as deceased, but Alexander is not so described. Therefore he was still alive in 1871. I have failed to find a death for him in Scotland or England/Wales; my spelling creativity is obvious not up to the job! I have also failed to find him in the 1871 census, which was taken before his son's wedding.
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: lgardner2000 on Sunday 19 February 12 13:31 GMT (UK)
Hello

I have a Alexander Yorkston who married Ann Donaldson in 1839 Larbert, Stirling.
His parents were Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid.

I dont have a Alexander marrying a Catherine Phair.

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 19 February 12 18:27 GMT (UK)
Have you got the death certificate of Alexander Yorkston, husband of Ann Donaldson?

I was relying on information from another researcher who told me that the husband of Catherine Fair was the son of Alexander Y and Ann Kincaid, so I would be very interested in any evidence to nail him either way.  Having looked at it again, I am not convinced this is correct. In particular, the husband of Catherine Fair is shown in the 1841 census as born in Scotland but not Midlothian, not specifically in Stirlingshire. He died in 1850, so there is no death certificate.

My line goes back reliably to Janet Yorkston, married in Larbert on 14 November 1819 to Peter Hogg. I believe that her parents were John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, but I still need some evidence to confirm this.

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: vinci on Wednesday 07 March 12 15:55 GMT (UK)
I have Alexander Yorkston (B Larbert 23.5.1814 d. Larbert Jun 1850) married 23.4.1833 St. Cuthberts Leith to Catherine (Kitty) Fair  (or Phair), ( b 1808 Edinburgh Parish d Edinburgh 10.9.1887) 

They are my GG Grandparents on my mothers side.

Taking this line further back from Alexander Yorkston (1814-1850)

Alexander's parents were Alexander Yorkston (b. Falkirk 22.7.1785 d. Stenhousmuir 30.6.1857) and Ann Kincaid (b. Falkirk 21.9.1784-d before c 1857) They married 14.12.1802 at Denny Falkirk.

Alexander's grandparents on this line are John Yorkston (b Falkirk 1752) and Janet Kerr (b Airth, Stirling 1753) They married 18th June 1776 at Falkirk.

Alexander's great grandparents are Alexander Yorkston (b Cramond Edinburgh 11.11.1715- d ?) and Marion Hanna ( b Denny Falkirk 6.5.1716-d ?) They married 15th April 1746 at Falkirk.
(I have the original rather tatty marriage certificate)

Alexander's great great grandparents are Alexander Yorkston (c 1685 - ?) and Margaret Broun (c 1685-?) They married 17.3.1711 at Cramond Edinburgh.
   
I have quite a lot more on this Yorkston branch, including a photo (attached) of Catherine ( Kitty) Phair and other Yorkstons from an 1899 Photo album in my possession.

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: apanderson on Wednesday 07 March 12 17:08 GMT (UK)
Looks like Alexander Yorkstone and Ann Kincaid might be buried in Larbert Old Parish Churchyard.

The date listed alongside their names is 1835 - possibly when they bought the lair?

See: www.memento-mori.co.uk

Anne
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 08 March 12 17:48 GMT (UK)
I have Alexander Yorkston (B Larbert 23.5.1814 d. Larbert Jun 1850) married 23.4.1833 St. Cuthberts Leith to Catherine (Kitty) Fair  (or Phair), ( b 1808 Edinburgh Parish d Edinburgh 10.9.1887) 
Alexander's parents were Alexander Yorkston (b. Falkirk 22.7.1785 d. Stenhousmuir 30.6.1857) and Ann Kincaid (b. Falkirk 21.9.1784-d before c 1857)

How can you be sure that these are the correct parents for Alexander Y who died in 1850? What evidence do you have?

You will see that lgardner has the son of Alexander Y and Ann Kincaid married to Ann Donaldson. The one married to Catherine Fair cannot also be the one married to Ann Donaldson.

The 1851 census lists at South Broomage Hall, Larbert Alexander Y, aged 36, i.e. born between 31 March 1814 and 30 March 1815, assuming it is accurate, birthplace Larbert, with wife Ann (Donaldson) and family. Note that this one's eldest son is Alexander and his second daughter is Ann, which would fit with him being the son of Alexander Y and Ann Kincaid.

Alexander Y and Catherine Fair's first two sons are John and James. The 1841 census gives Alexander's age as 27, i.e. born between 7 June 1813 and 6 June 1814 (assuming it is accurate) and born somewhere in Scotland but not in Midlothian. Also, an index search of the SP pre-1855 deaths finds one death of Alexander Yorkston in Edinburgh and none in Larbert.

We all need to get this clarified before we go any further. If lgardner has the death certificate of the Alexander Y who married Ann Donaldson, this would clinch it.
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: apanderson on Thursday 08 March 12 21:43 GMT (UK)
Forfarian - Is this the same Ann Yorkston (nee Kincaid) who is listed in 1861 at Carron Park, as Head of Household, age 40, born c.1821 in Larbert (Field Labourer) with 16 year old son Alexander (Foundry Labourer)?

I found the death of a 75 year old Alexander Yorkston in Larbert in 1857 on SP. Mother's maiden surname Kerr. That would mean a huge age gap between he and his wife though - unless there's a mistransription somewhere?(I obviously don't know if Kerr was his mother's m.s. - it just came up on the index).

Anne
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: apanderson on Thursday 08 March 12 21:52 GMT (UK)
Couldn't help it - I had a peek!  ::)

This Alexander Yorkston, died 30th June 1857, was a widower, age 75 - no wife's name given and the son of John Yorkston and Janet Kerr. The informant was his grandson - Peter Lowe?

He's also buried in Larbert Old Parish Churchyard!

This one matches with the info which 'vinci' posted, but now I'm completely confused by all these Yorkstone's!

Anne  :)

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: vinci on Thursday 08 March 12 22:54 GMT (UK)
How can you be sure that these are the correct parents for Alexander Y who died in 1850? What evidence do you have?

asks Forfarian.....

The primary research was done by my first cousin at Register House in Edinburgh before the age of the internet. I have every confidence in the quality of what he passed on to me, but cannot quote chapter and verse without going back to him. I will see what he has to say.

Vinci
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: kirkmichael on Thursday 08 March 12 23:57 GMT (UK)
In my own tree I've come across several variants on YORKSTON[E], all in the Edinburgh area extending out to West Lothian, including the dropping of the "K" and the "K" & "T".
I have an Alexander Yorkston b 1814 in Larbert, but he married Catherine (Kitty)
[PH/F]AIR

ibi, if you are still there, can we compare notes? I too have this Alexander Yorkston in my tree but with a bit of a question mark.

I definitely have Janet Yorkston, married in Larbert on 14 November 1819 to Peter Hogg, had two sons James b 1820 and John b 1823/4, then died before 1826 because Peter then married Margaret Russell. I have been told that her parents were John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, but I have yet to find any evidence to confirm this.


I'm still here but under the moniker of 'kirkmichael' for some time as ibi was forced off the board a few years by the continuing abuse from a 'lady' from Australia, - I use the term 'lady' advisedly <sad g>.

My cousin 'vinci' nearly sums up the results of our joint research on our
YOR[K]S[T]ON[E] ancestry.

I'll freely admit that, given developments in access to the Scottish records since my original research that it could be time for me and 'vinci' to re-visit this line, but my strong memory is that the substantial efforts put into this research at New Register House in Edinburgh would make me unlikely to believe that the info as posted here by 'vinci' is incorrect.

Please feel free to contact me via PM.

Orraverybest

Kirkmichael, previously known as ibi, never mind other monikers before that, due to 'attacks' from the same source ! <sad g>
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 09 March 12 17:23 GMT (UK)
I don't have any evidence either way other than what I have already listed above, but since lgardner's information conflicts with that of vinci/ibi/kirkmichael, one of them has to be wrong, because the Catherine Fair family and the Ann Donaldson family overlap. There must therefore have been two Alexander Ys born in 1813/1814/1815, and it is a question of which one married whom.

As for the Alexander Y who died in 1857 aged 75, he is far too old to be either of the ones born in 1813/1814/1815. He must be the one in the 1851 census in Larbert Village, aged 69. So he was born 1781/2, assuming his age in the census is accurate, or 1782/3, if his age at death is accurate. This doesn't quite fit with the son of John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, who was baptised in 1785, but it's possible.

The 1841 census has in Larbert Village Alx Y, 55; Ann Y, 55 and Janet Y, 15. These look like Alexander Y and Anne Kincaid, so this would fit with Anne Kincaid's husband being the son of John Y and Janet Kerr.

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 09 March 12 17:28 GMT (UK)
Is this the same Ann Yorkston (nee Kincaid) who is listed in 1861 at Carron Park, as Head of Household, age 40, born c.1821 in Larbert (Field Labourer) with 16 year old son Alexander (Foundry Labourer)?

I think you have your Annes mixed up! I think this Ann Y must be Ann(e) Donaldson, not Ann(e) Kincaid. The 1841 census records an Ann Y who is the same age as the Alexander who seems to be the one who died in 1857. It looks as if Ann Kincaid died between 1841 and 1851.
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: apanderson on Friday 09 March 12 17:33 GMT (UK)
 ;D

I don't think it's just the Ann/Anne's I'm mixed up with!!  ::)

The 1861 Census info was from a transcription, so it's anybody's guess (I guess!!)

Anne

P.S I think it's time I kept my nose out! Sorry!
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: vinci on Friday 09 March 12 19:36 GMT (UK)
Forfarian writes

"The 1841 census has in Larbert Village Alx Y, 55; Ann Y, 55 and Janet Y, 15. These look like Alexander Y and Anne Kincaid, so this would fit with Anne Kincaid's husband being the son of John Y and Janet Kerr."

Kirkmichael and I  have no record of Janet Yorkston age 15 at 1841, ie born c 1826.
Is she a relative acting as servant in the household? For children of Alexander Yorkston and Anne Kincaid we only have Alexander Yorkston born 23.5.1814 and John Yorkston born 1811
 
I am interested in who is the death witness for Alexander in 1857 as posted above, as a daughter of Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid must have married a (?) Lowe (?) to produce grandson Peter Lowe (?) the death witness. We have daughters Marion b/c 20.1.1781 Falkirk; Agnes b/c 17.11.1776 Falkirk and Janet b/c 22.12.1793 Falkirk.

Our record shows the latter Janet marries Peter Hogg 14.11.1819, Larbert, Stirling, but the record only shows children James and John, two sons who would not produce Peter Lowe (?).

We have no further information on Marion Yorkston b 1781 or Agnes Yorkston b 1776 and if they survived/married/produced children etc.

Alexander Yorkston who died 25.6.1850 recorded at St. Cuthberts Edinburgh is a "practical engineer". According to our record he pre-deceased his father also Alexander Yorkston ( in similar trade as Iron Caster) who died 30.6.1857 at Stenhousmuir, buried Parish Churchyard of Larbert and whose death cert. gives parents as John Yorkston and Janet Kerr.

Vinci 
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 10 March 12 18:13 GMT (UK)
"The 1841 census has in Larbert Village Alx Y, 55; Ann Y, 55 and Janet Y, 15. These look like Alexander Y and Anne Kincaid, so this would fit with Anne Kincaid's husband being the son of John Y and Janet Kerr."
Kirkmichael and I  have no record of Janet Yorkston age 15 at 1841, ie born c 1826.

I take her to be the 26-year-old Janet Graham, who in the 1851 census is living in the same household as Alexander d 1857 and described as his daughter. There are also her husband Samuel Graham and two grandchildren. Samuel and Janet were married in Ross-shire in 1848. Their daughter is named Ann, which is presumably after Ann Kincaid.
 
Quote
I am interested in who is the death witness for Alexander in 1857 as posted above, as a daughter of Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid must have married a (?) Lowe (?) to produce grandson Peter Lowe (?) the death witness.

Indeed.

There is a Peter Low, son of James Low and Marion Yorkston, born 1840 in Larbert and baptised on 23 August 1840. The 1851 census lists in Stenhousemuir a family consisting of James Lowe, 34; wife Marion, 32; and son Peter, 10; all born in Larbert.

Quote
Our record shows the latter Janet marries Peter Hogg 14.11.1819, Larbert, Stirling, but the record only shows children James and John, two sons who would not produce Peter Lowe (?).

Yes. Peter Hogg married Margaret Russell in 1826. Therefore this Janet Y must have died between the birth of her son John in 1822/4 and her widower's remarriage in 1826. In 1841 Peter and Margaret's household included John H, aged 19, and Peter's sons by Margaret, Peter and George. There is no daughter in the household in either census. (I also believe that Janet was the daughter of John Y and Janet Kerr, but I still need proof.)

Quote
Alexander Yorkston who died 25.6.1850 recorded at St. Cuthberts Edinburgh is a "practical engineer". According to our record he pre-deceased his father also Alexander Yorkston ( in similar trade as Iron Caster) who died 30.6.1857 at Stenhousmuir, buried Parish Churchyard of Larbert and whose death cert. gives parents as John Yorkston and Janet Kerr.

This is exactly the point at issue. Which Alexander Y was the son of Alexander Y and Ann Kincaid? Did he stay in Larbert and marry Ann Donaldson, or did he move to Edinburgh, marry Catherine Phair, and die there in 1850? And if he was the latter, who were the parents of the former?

The banns of Alexander Y and Catherine Phair were called in both Edinburgh St Cuthbert's and South Leith.

"Alexander Yorkstone, smith, residing in No 111 Pleasance, in this parish, and Catharine Phair, residing in Heriot's Buildings, Leith Walk in the parish of South Leith, daughter of the late John Phair, sculptor on Leith Walk, have been three times proclaimed in order to Marriage in the Parish Church of St Cuthbert's and no objections have been offered. Married on the twenty third day of April current by the Reverend James Scott, Minister of the Relief Congregation, Bread Street." [Edinburgh St Cuthbert's]

"1833, April. Alexander Yorkstone, smith, Pleasance, Edinburgh and Catherine Phair residing in the parish of South Leith and daughter of the late John Phair sculptor there, after proclamation of banns were married." [South Leith]


So there is no clue there to Alexander's parentage.

His death is recorded in the St Cuthbert's burials: "No 1180 1850, June 25. Yorkston, Alexander, Engineer, age 36 years, Steads Place, consumption."

Again, there is no clue to his parentage.

Given that there was another Alexander Y of almost exactly the same age in Larbert, you cannot assume that the one in Edinburgh married to Catherine Phair and who died in 1850 was the one born in Larbert. Which is why I am asking what other evidence there is either way.

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 10 March 12 19:17 GMT (UK)
The 1861 Census info was from a transcription, so it's anybody's guess (I guess!!)

Now that I am home (I was in France all last week) I have been able to look at my research files. I do have my own transcription of that 1861 census, as it happens, listing Ann Yorkeston, married, 42, born Dunipace, with sons John, 16, and Peter, 14, at North Road, Stenhousemuir.

I cannot find her husband anywhere in Scotland, England or Wales in 1861 or 1871, though I am obviously relying on someone's indexing which could easily be wrong. Nor can I find his death anywhere in Scotland.
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: vinci on Saturday 10 March 12 20:23 GMT (UK)
Forfarian has, in answer to my Q.

There is a Peter Low, son of James Low and Marion Yorkston, born 1840 in Larbert and baptised on 23 August 1840. The 1851 census lists in Stenhousemuir a family consisting of James Lowe, 34; wife Marion, 32; and son Peter, 10; all born in Larbert.

At 1841 here they are:

1841 Census
3 Records found
        
Piece: SCT1841/485 Place: Larbert -Stirlingshire Enumeration District: 2
Civil Parish: Larbert Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Larbert
Folio: 485 Page: 6
Address: Rennies Feus

        Surname       First name(s)       Sex       Age       Occupation       Where Born       Remarks   
        LOW       James       M       20       Turner        Stirlingshire           
        LOW       Marion       F       20               Stirlingshire           
        LOW       Peter       M       1               Stirlingshire

and the birth of Peter:

Birth Peter Low 4.8.1840 Larbert Mother Marion Yorkston father James Low

This Marion Yorkston cannot be the Marion daughter of John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, as she is born c 1821, whereas Marion daughter of John+Janet is born 20.1.1781, a good generation away.

So far I have been unable to find a birth of a Marion Yorkston c. 1821, and which may help to unlock the puzzle a little further.

Vinci



Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 10 March 12 22:10 GMT (UK)
This Marion Yorkston cannot be the Marion daughter of John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, as she is born c 1821, whereas Marion daughter of John+Janet is born 20.1.1781, a good generation away.

I thought she must be a daughter of Alexander Y and Ann Kincaid and therefore the granddaughter of John Y and Janet Kerr. As she was aged 32 in 1851, she would have been born 1818/19.
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: vinci on Sunday 11 March 12 09:39 GMT (UK)
Forfarian.......

There is no record of a Marion Yorkston born to Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid.

Your thought needs some proof that you are right.

I have not been able to find this Marion's death record to confirm your thought.

all we have on the record are two sons:

(1)Alexander b/c/ 23.5.1814 Larbert ( d. 25.6.1850 St. Cuthbert's Edinburgh)

(2) John b/c/ 1811 Larbet

and on John we have no further data, he disappears off the radar .....not on 1841 census or 1880 US census or Scottish/Engflish/Canadian 1881 census.

John Yorkston and Janet Kerr have six children
Alexander, Marion, Agnes, Archibald, Alexander and Janet.

In this era it is a possibility that emigration took place and the Low family went abroad (Yorkstons from the Alexander Yorkston + Catherine Phair branch later went to the US) , so the hunt continues.

vinci




Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: lgardner2000 on Sunday 11 March 12 11:27 GMT (UK)
Hello,
What confusion I have caused!!!
Have just quickly signed on to check emails and have seen your discussions you have been having about the Yorkston/e family.
I am currently on my way out, but when I return I will look at my research to see what I have got to see if we can work it all out.

Thanks
Lisa
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 March 12 11:49 GMT (UK)
There is no record of a Marion Yorkston born to Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid.
Your thought needs some proof that you are right.
I have not been able to find this Marion's death record to confirm your thought.

You are absolutely right, and I have not found a death certificate either. However the fact that Peter Lowe was the grandson of Alexander Y d 1857 is a useful pointer.

The Yorkstons generally seem not to have been very diligent at having their baptisms recorded. For example, the records list only two sons of John Y and Elizabeth Esplin, but there are death certificates for a son (Malcolm) and a daughter (Janet, wife of George McRae) and the 1851 census lists a daughter Margaret as well as son William. The 1841 lists an Archibald and a George who may also be sons. (I do not know who the father of this John Y was, but he had died before 1841.)

In fact there are so many missing Yorkstons that I have been tempted to wonder if there is some common spelling variant I haven't thought of  :-\
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: vinci on Sunday 11 March 12 23:34 GMT (UK)
Forfarian.......

Your reference to:

The Yorkstons generally seem not to have been very diligent at having their baptisms recorded

Is perfectly correct and reminds me of the note that I have for the children of Alexander Yorkston and Catherine Phair which says:

...." entry of births for all children dated 29th December 1854
it refers to Alexander Yorkston ( now deceased ) and Catherine Phair "

......one wonders why the entry was made 4 yrs after Alexander's death?

Seeing the names John Y and Elizabeth Esplin reminds me also that Archibald Yorkston 1790-1870, son of John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, marries Marion Esplin 13.11.1814 at Larbert. ( Marion looks to be the sister to Elizabeth)

Marion's parents are John Esplen[e] + Marion Gilchrist, for whom IGI has the following:

1. WILLIAM ESPLINE  - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 04 FEB 1783 Wallacetown-Polmont, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
2. William <ESPLIN> - International Genealogical Index
Gender: <Male> Birth: 04 FEB 1783 Wallacetown, Polmont, Stirling, Scotland
3. Elizabeth <ESPLIN> - International Genealogical Index
Gender: <Female> Birth: 18 APR 1793 Wallacetown, Polmont, Stirling, Scotland
4. WILLIAM ESPLINE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 FEB 1783 Polmont, Stirling, Scotland
5. MARION ESPLIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 MAY 1790 Polmont, Stirling, Scotland
6. ELISABETH ESPLINE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 APR 1793 Wallacestone And Standrig, Stirling, Scotland
7. MARION ESPLINE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 29 APR 1790 Wallacestone And Standrig, Stirling, Scotland
8. Marion <ESPLIN> - International Genealogical Index
Gender: <Female> Birth: 29 APR 1790 Wallacetown, Polmont, Stirling, Scotland
9. ELIZABETH ESPLIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 28 APR 1793 Polmont, Stirling, Scotland 

Who is the John Yorkston who married Elizabeth Esplin? Who were his parents? and where does he fit into the jigsaw?

Vinci
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 12 March 12 08:09 GMT (UK)
......one wonders why the entry was made 4 yrs after Alexander's death?

There was an officially sanctioned rush in 1854 to get hitherto missing baptisms listed in the parish registers before the start of civil registration in 1855. Many parish registers contain a separate 'Register of Neglected Entries' but others just list them among the normal records for 1854.

Quote
Who is the John Yorkston who married Elizabeth Esplin? Who were his parents? and where does he fit into the jigsaw?

As I said above, I do not know.

He could possibly be the son of John Yorkston and Janet Cow, baptised in Falkirk on 19 May 1783. But if so, why did he not have a son named John? Or maybe he did, and he doesn't appear in any of the records.

Or maybe he was an unrecorded son of John Y and Janet Kerr? There are some gaps among their children.

I suspect we are unlikely ever to find the answer to that question!
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 24 April 16 12:54 BST (UK)
The proof that there were two Alexander Yorkston(e) of similar age is in the 1841 census

1841 Census: Greenside Row, Edinburgh, Midlothian 685/4/2
Alexander Yorkston           27 Smith Journeyman               Scotland not Midlothian
Catherine Yorkston            25                                           Midlothian
John Yorkston                     4                                           Midlothian
James Yorkston                 18 months                                 Midlothian

1841 Census: Larbert Village, Larbert, Stirlingshire 485/1/2
Margt Nicol               34                        Stirlingshire
Alx Yorkston              25  Mason          Stirlingshire
Ann Yorkston             20                        Stirlingshire
Janet Yorkston          1                          Stirlingshire

We have one living in Edinburgh and giving his age as 27, which, if accurate, means that he was born in 1813 or 1814. The one in Larbert gives his age as 25, but since ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, he would have been born between 1811 and 1816.

Ten years later

1851 Census: Allison Place, Edinburgh St Cuthbert's, Midlothian 385/1/36
Catherine Yorkston       Head Wid 42  Pauper              Midlothian, Edinburgh
Alexr Yorkston             Son 16  Engineer apprentice    Midlothian, Edinburgh
John Yorkston               Son 14 Message boy               Midlothian, St Cuthbert's
James Yorkston             Son 12  Scholar                     Midlothian, Edinburgh
Cathrine Yorkston          Daughter 8  Scholar              Midlothian, Edinburgh
Archibald Yorkston        Son 6  Scholar                      Midlothian, Edinburgh
May Ann Yorkston          Daughter 4                           Midlothian, Edinburgh 
William Yorkston           Son 2                                    Midlothian, St Cuthbert's

This ties in with the 1850 death in Edinburgh.

1851 Census: South Broomage Hall, Larbert, Stirlingshire 485/8/9
Alexander Yorkston     Head Mar 36  Farmer employing 3 labourers      Stirlingshire, Larbert
Ann Yorkston               Wife Mar 32                                                 Stirlingshire, Larbert
Janet Yorkston             Daughter 11  Scholar                                    Stirlingshire, Larbert
Alexander Yorkston     Son 9  Scholar                                              Stirlingshire, Larbert
John Yorkston              Son 6  Scholar                                             Stirlingshire, Larbert
Peter Yorkston             Son 4  Scholar                                             Stirlingshire, Larbert
Ann Yorkston                Daughter 2                                                 Stirlingshire, Larbert
3 servants

This shows that the husband of Ann Kincaid was born in Larbert in 1814 or 1815.

So there were definitely two Alexander Yorkston(e)s born about 1814, one married to Ann Donaldson and one married to Catherine Phair/Fair.

The husband of Catherine Phair in Edinburgh is variously described as engineer, mechanical engineer and practical engineer.

The husband of Ann Donaldson is variously described as a mason, bricklayer and also a farmer.

The children of Catherine Phair/Fair were Alexander, John, James, Catherine, Archibald, Mary Ann, William and James, Catherine's parents were John and Mary. If they had followed the naming tradition their first daughter would have been named Mary, so no inferences can be drawn from her children's names.

The children of Ann Donaldson were Janet, Alexander, John, Peter and Ann. Ann Donaldson's parents were John Donaldson and Janet Malcolm. She named her first daughter Janet and her second son John, which is in accordance with the naming tradition. The names of her first son and second daughter are consistent with her husband's parents being Alexander and Ann.

So there definitely were two Alexander Yorkston(e)s of the same age

One born in Larbert about 1814, married in Larbert in 1839 and with children's names that would fit with his parents being Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid.

The other born about 1814 somewhere in Scotland, married to Catherine Phair/Fair in Edinburgh in 1833, with children's names that cannot be matched to the naming tradition.

So it is still not possible to say with certainty which Alexander Yorkston was which, unless someone else has a piece of evidence to prove the identity of one of them one way or the other.

I don't really care very much what the correct answer is, but I do very much care about it actually being right!

Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: buckhyne on Sunday 24 April 16 14:33 BST (UK)
Forfarian that's an excellent post.
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 25 April 16 17:12 BST (UK)
Thank you, Buckhyne.

If only we could find the death certificate of Ann Donaldson's husband!
Title: Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 25 April 16 17:58 BST (UK)
This shows that the husband of Ann Kincaid was born in Larbert in 1814 or 1815.

Mea culpa, that should of course read 'the husband of Ann Donaldson'