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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: helenjean on Saturday 02 March 13 05:04 GMT (UK)
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My great grandparents were married in this church in 1878, and I wondered if their parents or relatives were buried in the graveyard. The bride was Rebecca Weir of Mullagheagh and the groom's name was John Gallagher of Carey (occupation labourer). Her father's name was Joseph Weir, occupation farmer and his father was also John Gallagher, occupation mason. Rebecca's mother's name was Rachel, possibly nee Weir also. My great grandparents went to Glasgow around 1900 with their three Irish born children: Joseph b. 1879, John b. 1884 and my grandmother Margaret Jane b. 1889. I know Rebecca died in 1902 of pneumonia, but haven't been able to trace her husband John, nor her sons Joseph and John after that: family lore has it that Joseph went to Canada and Margaret (my nana) married in Scotland in 1909 and came to Australia with their three Scots-born children in 1920. Witnesses at John and Rebecca's wedding were Robert Joseph and William Weir. I do hope someone can help... and thanks in advance.
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Hi, this gravestone, from the above graveyard is probably of interest
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GScid=2282157&GRid=31245691&
Regards
Joe
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Thanks Bob: I had found this family on a census or two, and the given names of the males certainly match the info on the marriage record, but Rebecca's mother's name was Rachel (nee Weir), according to her husband John Gallagher, the informant on the record of death in January 1902 in Gorbals, Scotland; unfortunately, Rebecca's mother's name was not given on the marriage record. But I will keep on looking ;)
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Hi, took another look at this, I think you have the spelling of the place name wrong, think it was 'Mullaghagay' not Mullageagh and was a small Clachan in the townland of Three Trees, Muff, a Joseph Weir is recorded as farming there in the Griffith Valuation of 1857,(place name visible in map, not record) there is another Joseph weir recorded in the townland of Aught, Muff, I think that is the Joseph from the gravestone in my previous post, name is not common in area so both Joseph's are probably related
In the 1901 Census there is a Robert Joseph weir (45) unmarried farmer living at Three Trees, Muff a possible brother of your Rebecca, also a witness at the marriage?
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In 1911 he is living with his sister Margaret Allen (a widow) and her family, a marriage record from 1866 exists for Margaret and confirms her father as Joseph Weir
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGDK-NF8
Sorry didn't mean to make new post here, just modify existing :-[
Update: I have found the birth record of Robert Joseph Weir, he was christened as Knowhead Presbyterian church, Inishowen in 1853 (Greenbank wasn't built until the 1860's) His parents are recorded as Joseph Weir and Rachel (nee Weir) Margaret Weir's birth is also recorded in 1839, same parents, unfortunately Rebecca's birth does not seem to be recorded.
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Thanks Joe:
Had to go to work (drat!) - hence the delay in replying. This is getting so exciting!
It does seem that there were two Weir men named Joseph (probably cousins) in adjoining townlands: another kind Rootschatter has sent me a personal message about finding three records of baptism in the presbyterian parish of Knowhead all with father Joseph Weir and mother Rachel (nee Weir in one of them): Margaret 1839, Rebecca b. 1 January 1848 and Robert Joseph b. 4 June 1853 (parents living in Townland of Three Trees, Civil Parish Muff) I have yet to find Margaret's date of birth, but now I know to look in parish Knowhead (thanks for the info that Greenbank wasn't built until the 1860s!) - possibly will also find William Weir, the other witness at the wedding and maybe even more siblings.
Rebecca's d.o.b. doesn't quite fit with the age at death (49) given by husband John (the informant) on the death record in Scotland in January 1902, but I guess these variations happen. Both father Joseph and mother Rachel were shown as deceased on Rebecca's death record. I think I have found a record of death of Robert Joseph Weir in 1919 - he apparently never married.
The place names Mullagheagh and Carey: both are transcriptions - from an Ulster Historical Foundation report I commissioned in 2002 (they found only the marriage details) and again on a Rootsireland search. And what's a Clachan?
On with the search! Thank you sooo much for your interest :) Helen
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A clachan is a group of houses clustered together.
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Hi, glad to be able to help, the William Weir may have been a cousin of Rebecca's, there is a Will calender entry at PRONI for a William Weir of Aught:
Letters of Administration (with the Will annexed) of the personal estate of William Weir late of Aught County Donegal Dealer who died 17 March 1894 at same place were granted at Londonderry to Joseph Weir of Aught Farmer the Brother.
The Civil record of his death states he was 54 years old, his name is on the gravestone from my previous post,
I missed Rebecca's birth because of the spelling of her name 'Rebeka' in church record, it was common to knock a few years of an age, especially for women, also with little literacy from the time period some people only had a vague idea of when they were born.
Also meant to mention yesterday, there are still Weirs living in the Three Trees townland
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Thanks again Joe: with your help I am really fleshing out the family tree (if that's not a mixed metaphor!)
Re the Weir families still living in Three Trees, I am hopeful of visiting Donegal later this year, so in the meantime, I may be able to contact some living descendants of Joseph and Rachel. Other (Scots) family names in my maternal tree include Anderson and Wylie, which also seem to have been around parish of Muff in the 19th century - could be Irish connections there too...
But finding the right Gallagher family is sure to be difficult - perhaps if I can find John's death record in Scotland, (I have posted elsewhere on Rootschat and will search ScotlandsPeople)- it may have his mother's maiden name on it. I wondered, too, why both witnesses were Weirs - I would've thought John would have had a brother attending him...or perhaps he wasn't from Co. Donegal at all.
More sleuthing to be done! :) H
Cheers and thanks once again. :) Helen
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But finding the right Gallagher family is sure to be difficult - perhaps if I can find John's death record in Scotland, (I have posted elsewhere on Rootschat and will search ScotlandsPeople)- it may have his mother's maiden name on it. I wondered, too, why both witnesses were Weirs - I would've thought John would have had a brother attending him...or perhaps he wasn't from Co. Donegal at all.
Regarding the marriage record of John and Rebecca, there may of been a reason that there were no Gallaghers as witnesses, Gallagher is a native Irish surname, St. Patricks Church Iskaheen(the local Roman Catholic church for the Parish) has 57 Gallagher births registered in the second half of the 19C, in the same period Crossroads Presbyterian church has none (that I can see) It is therefore highly likely that John Gallagher was a Roman Catholic and that this was a mixed marriage. This would have caused controversy at the time and the fact that the family were raised as Presbyterian would probably have alienated John from the local Catholic population, this could well have been a reason why they left the Parish (that's just speculation however!) The birth records for Iskaheen can be found on the Donegal Genealogical Resources site and begin in 1858 so too late for your John unfortunately
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Hi again Joe:
I have just had a reply to my post about John's death in Scotland (he died in 1928 and his son Joseph was the informant on the death record showing John Snr's parents as John (a stone mason) and mother Margaret Elder as well as first wife Rebecca Weir and second wife Jeanie Dalrymple (he remarried in 1912).
As for the religion question (R.C. -v- Presbyterian), I wondered about that too, and I also understand there was a lot of persecution of catholics in the early part of the 19th century.
I do recall that I thought I had found a placename Carey in Cushendall parish, Co. Antrim, so I will follow that up too. This is soo exciting for me! :)
Thanks again for your interest and guidance ... I have learned so much in these few days.
Cheers Helen
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Hi Helen, before we got side tracked your original request was for a lookup at Greenbank church graveyard for the name Weir, I managed to take a look round the graveyard this morning and unfortunately there are no other Weir graves apart from the plot photographed in earlier post, there is one gravestone with a crude J W inscribed on it in another part of the graveyard that could maybe stand for Joseph weir but that's all I could find >:(
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That's good advice Joe - and thanks for taking the time to have a look. :) Helen
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We have been looking for burials in this churchyard. We were in touch with the minister who told us that unfortunately there is no burial register - a fact which was confirmed by a relative who was minister there some years ago. I thought this may be a useful piece of information for others who may be looking for unmarked graves. However, if anyone knows who is buried in the grave just marked "Brooks" we would be most grateful.
Best wishes
Ellen
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Most Presbyterian churches did not (and many still do not) keep burial registers- usually only the Church of Ireland did so (and the rector would sometimes only record burials for members of C. of I.).
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Hello, I know this is an older thread, but I just stumbled on it, and thought I would reply. I have recently discovered that I am descended from the Joseph Weir from Aught mentioned in this thread. I would be interested in discussing this line with anyone who is also connected. Thanks very much! Doug Smith
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Hello Doug: great to hear from you. :) I originally thought that Joseph Weir of Aught was not MY Joseph Weir (see earlier posts on this thread, especially the gravestone at Greenbank Church) - Joseph Weir from Three Trees married Rachel Weir of Aught, and the other Joseph's wife was named Esther; but I've just had a light bulb moment - I'm, wondering whether Joseph et al from Aught might have been Rachel's family - will need to follow that up.). Joseph and Rachel had three children, Margaret b. 1839, Rebecca b. 1849 and Robert Joseph b. 1853.
Margaret married John Allen, a shoemaker in 1866 (in Derry) and they had Jane b. 1867, Rachel b.1870, Mary b.1875, Rebecca b. 1875 Joseph b.1877, Margaret b. 1880 and John b. 1883. Jane married William Smith (or Smyth as it appears in a later census) in 1900, Joseph m. Jemimah Donaldson 1920, Mary m Alexander Crawford 1897 and Rebecca m. Robert Stewart 1903. If any of these names mean anything to you, please send me a PM with an email address and we can discuss it further. Cheers Helen
Me again Doug: Joseph Weir of Aught and Robert J Weir of Three Trees were signatories at Greenbank to the Ulster Covenant and Maggie and Martha Allen both of Aught also signed the Declaration at Greenbank. Cheers Helen ;)
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Hi,
Doug will have to make another couple of posts before he can use the Parsonal Message system.
Regards
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Welcome Doug,
There are Weir's living in Aught to this day.
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Hello Helen,
The names that you mention are not the ones in the line I have traced. I am connected through Esther Anne Weir, daughter of Joseph Weir of Aught, as detailed in her marriage record. Since she is an Esther, this fits with the Joseph who's wife was also an Esther, although I hadn't proved that yet. Esther Anne (called Essy Anne) married Robert Short of Drung in 1860. Their daughter, Mary Jane Short, married Joseph Warnock, of Gulladuff, in 1895. Their son, William James Warnock, was my grandfather, and married Susanna McCandless of Gleneely in 1924. They left Ireland for Brooklyn in the 1920's.
That's an interesting possibility that Rachel may have been part of the same family as Essy Anne. I will have to do some research on that end.
Thanks for the reply! This is great!
Doug
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Hello again Doug: I've had another look at the inscription on the Weir family grave at Greenbank church (almost certainly your line); to sort out the relationships in my own mind, I've made up the attached table, which may be useful to you. Good luck with your search! Cheers :) Helen
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Hi Helen, thanks for the table, it is a great help. I will try to follow up on some of those names. Thanks again!
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Hi, my name is anne weir and I live in aught...my parents are eileen and kenneth weir.
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Hello Anne: :) Thanks for posting on this topic: we may be related, though I suspect you have a more direct connection to another Rootschatter (see the last couple of posts)!
As you will see from my earlier posts, I am looking for Joseph Weir, a farmer of Three Trees and his wife Rachel (nee Weir of Aught), who were the parents of my great-grandmother, Rebecca Weir. (It seems there were two men named Joseph Weir, one living in Aught -your relative? - and mine, living in Three Trees at the same time in the 19th century - with separate families, but perhaps they were related somehow). Both Joseph and Rachel were shown as deceased on Rebecca's 1902 death record in Scotland: the informant on that record was Rebecca's husband, John Gallagher.
I haven't found graves for either Joseph or Rachel at Greenbank, so perhaps they were buried at Knowhead.
Any light you can throw on the Three Trees connection would be very welcome!
Thanks again for posting! :-* Helen
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I’m new to family research and came upon this old thread when looking for information on my Gt Gt Grandparents John Allen and Margaret Weir.
Margaret Weir of Three Trees was the sister of Helenjean’s relative Rebecca so we would be some kind of cousins?
I found from this thread (thanks for the information ) that Joseph Weir, a farmer of Three Trees married Rachel Weir of Aught.
There was also a James Weir of Three Trees whose son Joseph was born in 1856, his mother was not named. Perhaps Joseph and James Weir were brothers.
John Allen married Margaret Weir of Three Trees in 1866. Their family were all born in Three Trees.
I’m also looking for information on John Allen. All I know is that his address was L’Derry on his marriage record, he died in 1897, aged 57 years, so was born around 1840.
His father, James Allen was a farmer. I have no idea where he was born or where his father James farmed.
Any ideas on where to look would be most welcome , I don’t live in the area so can’t check the graveyards.
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Hello Louise: great to hear from you! You have actually supplied me with years of birth and death for John Allen that I didn't have. I can't add much, I'm afraid, to John's story, except that according to the marriage record, he was a Shoemaker by trade and I would have thought they would've lived in town, rather than at Three Trees, but as you say, all seven kids were born at Three Trees.
As you will have discovered, there are several Allen families in the district and there are also quite a few Weir families - many using the same given names generation by generation. As well as Rebecca, Margaret Allen, nee Weir (b. 31 Jan 1839 d. 19 May 1915 at Three Trees) also had a brother Robert Joseph b. 4 Jun 1853 - he never married and died on 8 Nov 1919 at Three Trees.
My great grandmother Rebecca b. 1 Jan 1848 married John Gallagher on 14 Feb 1878 at Greenbank Presbyterian Church, Muff Parish. She died in Glasgow on 14 Jan 1902 of pneumonia; her husband John was the informant, and indicated that both her parents were deceased at that time. John married again in 1912 and died in 1928.
Rebecca & John Gallagher (m. 14 Feb 1878 at Greenbank Presbyterian Church) had three children, all born in Ireland: two sons, Joseph (b. 10 Feb 1879, d. 18 Feb 1937), John, b.1884 d.1953 and Margaret Jane (my grandmother). They went to Scotland, and all three children married in Scotland: Joseph to Margaret McLellan and John to Elizabeth McMillan. Joseph and Margaret Gallagher had a son and two daughters; the two daughters never married and the son married but had no children: so that leaves my grandmother, Margaret Jane b.24 Dec 1888 d. 12 Jun 1974; she married John Anderson and had one daughter (my mother) and four sons, the last son dying either at birth or soon afterwards (they came to Australia in 1920). John and Elizabeth Gallagher married in 1910 and went to the USA. They had no living children (a daughter lived only two days). John died in 1953 and Elizabeth died in 1966. So that means that my line is the only one left from the marriage of John Gallagher and Rebecca Weir.
I hadn't considered the James Weir of Three Trees that you found - as you say, he could be a brother to Joseph, father of Margaret Weir: certainly the name he gave his son seems consistent.
I do hope this is helpful and will be happy to share anything I have with you. Regards Helen
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Helen, thanks for your reply.
Your branch of the family seem to be well travelled! So far mine are all in Ireland.
I'm glad you found John Allen's date of death useful, I paid for the certificate in the hope that it would help me find a birth record but I'm still looking.
I'm still a novice at this so I''ll have to be patient.
Good luck with your research.