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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: ruth60 on Friday 01 March 13 23:14 GMT (UK)
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Hello, I wonder if anyone would be able to help me. I am looking for a photo of Bairds Square, in Holytown which, as far as I know was housing for miners. I am trying to put together a photo book for my father's 80th birthday. He was born in Baird Square. I have searched on google but no luck.
I would be grateful for any images.
thanks
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Not a photo, just posting the link for Baird's Square on http://scottishmining.co.uk/54.html
Have you considered contacting the Motherwell Heritage Centre? They are likely to be a good source of historical photographs for the area.
www.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15875
Monica :)
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Hi Ruth60,I too have been searching for photos of Baird's Square,as many of my family lived there.Found the housing conditions on the mining site,but like you I would love photos of "back then".My family were the Wedlocks. And yes,I will contact Motherwell Heritage Centre. ::)
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You could also try contacting Lanarkshire Family History Society to see if they have a photo in their collection
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Thanks for your replies, I have contacted the Lanarkshire FHS, I'll post photo if I'm able to get one.
Frances
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If nothing turns up there is an aerial photo available dated 1945-1950 at http://www.ukaerialphotos.com/viewer.asp?x=276207&y=660222
Enter postcode ML1 4RG
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(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_wHKqwQuV7c/UUETH_zkq9I/AAAAAAAACFg/U5dWFHjRr5Q/s663/mcgrogans.jpg)
Not quite what you are looking for, but this is a family photo taken in front of numbers 59-60 Bairds Square, which were occupied by my family McGrogans, who also occupied several other units in Bairds Sq until they were demolished.
Would be interested to hear if you found any photos. I was at the Motherwell Heritage centre myself the other week. The staff are very helpful.
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Enjoyed seeing Baird's Square housing in the background here. My James Martin and Elizabeth George Russell Martin lived here in 1856, according to the BC of their daughter.
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(http://)
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Thank you so much for the photo image!
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on facebook checkout Holytown past and present
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thank you....I'll check Holytown FB...
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found the facebook page for Holytown and sent a "join" request. thanks so much for pointing it out. jr
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bairds square
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bairds square
Wonderful photo! Thanks for sharing!
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I take it the square is named for the Baird's of Gartsherrie?
Skoosh.
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Hello JasJer here, This is my first post so pardon any mistakes I make.
I am interested in post arcmorality made with photo of 59 Square Holytown, which was accompanied by photo of McGrogan family at said address.
My great uncle Felix Brannigan, after 6 years in Royal Navy, in 1918 was signing on to British Army, and he used the McGrogan famiily address to forward on his mail. I wonder does anyone know of any McGrogan family connection to Brannigan or White family. His mother Margaret Brannigan White's family came from Holytown Henry White and Ann McGarry were her parents. They had a big family all the boys were coal miners. In his enlistment to Royal Navy in 1913, he said he was a coal miner before enlistment.
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Welcome to RootsChat, JasJer.
Was Brannigan Margaret's middle name? If so the connection must be on her side.
If not ....
It's always useful to give a date of birth, even if only approximate, when you're asking about someone. Fortunately Felix is a very unusual name in Scotland so he's not going to be too hard to find.
There are three recorded births of Felix B*r*n*g*n in Scotland
1879, Liberton, Midlothian
1896, Glasgow
1900, Glasgow
and two deaths
1873, Haddington, an infant
1925, Dalziel, aged 49
1956, Glasgow, aged 55
There are three in the 1901 census
Glasgow, aged 4, parents Nicholas, born Ireland, and Margaret
Dalziel, aged 24, born Ireland, mother Ann
Gasgow, 9 months, others in household Annie, Bridget, Henry and James
Nicholes Branigan and Margaret White were married in Holytown in 1893.
So it looks as if your Uncle Felix was born in Glasgow in 1896 to Nicholas Bran(n)igan and Margaret White.
However I don't see any record of a death of Nicholas, Margaret or Felix in Scotland, and there is only one death after 1973 of a B*r*n*g*n with mother's maiden surname Whyte. Did they perhaps return to Ireland, or emigrate somewhere?
There's a birth of a Nicholas Branigan, son of Felix Branigan and Margaret Doran, at ?Maghernahely, District of Mullaglass, Newry, County Antrim, on 5 February 1867, who looks a likely candidate.
But don't assume - check Nicholas' marriage certificate to see that the parents' names match.
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Forfaran thank you for your very quick reply, I was expecting to wait months! for an answer. I stumbled across a reference to my great uncle Felix Brannigan in another post on a member looking for 'his' Felix Brannigan, who I know was a first cousin of mine. in the exchange of researchers helping him, they had information on 'my' Felix, and a reference to 59 Bairds Square Holytown, which lead me to this thread on Rootschat. And the accompanying photo of the McGogans at 59 Bairds Square , which peeked my interest, as it was on 'my' Felix's application to join the British Army's Machine Gun Corps in 1918, as his forwarding address.
Yes you are very correct, Felix is son to Margaret White who married Nicholas Brannigan in Holytown in 1893. And Felix was born in Glasgow in 1836 .You were right too , of Nicholas being son of Felix Branigan and Mary Doran (Or Maria, or Annie which is on her death certificate)
You were absolute right of some of the family returning to Ireland, after a period in Glasgow.
What I had said in the query, which by the way, took me 3 attempts to send, like I said first time enquirer,and having to type the message 3 times! as it disappeared on me in the first two failed attempts, and so the 3rd attempt was a bit reduced , because I was fed up at it, but what I had said in one of failed attempts was Felix had joined the Navy in 1913, when his family, Nicholas , Margaret and all the family but Felix, emigrated to Australia in1913. Felix did not want to emigrate to Australia, so chose to stay behind. Felix spent 6 years in Navy, he was discharged and joined up with Machine Gun Corps, in the last few days of the Great War.
He then joined merchant Navy, spending time in America and Canada, before finally coming to Australia in the mid 30's.
I am trying to find any links with the McGrogan family with my White family in Holytown, which I have not the faintest idea about. I had tried to attach a page of his Service Record from 1918, showing the McGrogan address, but again Roots chat said it was too large, even after I reduced the size . I am still coming to terms with the idiosyncrasies of the RootChat way of doing things! I promise you, I will learn!!
So, thank you for your very detailed response,I appreciate your efforts, yet I am still no closer to finding an answer to the McGrogan Connection.
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I thought that you might have had more information than had made it into your first post!
I suspect that any connection will be in Ireland, before any of them moved to Scotland, let alone Australia.
There's a death of Felix Branigan, aged 71, in Clougharevan, District of Mullaghglass, Newry, on 7 November 1884. The death was registered by his widow, Mary, so I think it likely that he is Nicholas' father.
There are a lot of deaths of Mary Bran(n)igans, as you might guess. You can take a look at them at https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ and see if you think any might be your Mary Doran. However it will be difficult to be sure because (unlike Scottish ones) Irish death certificates don't tell you the name of the deceased's spouse, let alone their parents.
There seem to be two McGrogan families in Holytown in the 1901 census.
One is the family of Daniel McGrogan and His wife Mary, who are likely to be the Daniel McGrogan and Mary Campbell married in Holytown in 1884. Daniel was 39, a coal miner, born Maryhill. He is therefore probably the Daniel McGrogan born 21 August 1862 in the parish of Barony, parents Patrick McGrogan and Margaret McCabe. This couple also had a daughter Rose, born 4 May 1855. If you think this family is yours, I recommend viewing that birth certificate because it will tell you where Patrick and Margaret were born. They were married in Glasgow in 1852 and the marriage is recorded in both the Roman Catholic register and the Church of Scotland register. Margaret McCabe or McGrogan died in Glasgow in 1870, aged 42. The index does not say what her mother's maiden surname was but the actual certificate will probably tell you the name of her father. There is also a death of a Patrick McGrogan, aged 60, in Glasgow in 1898, mother's maiden surname Tage. He might be the Patrick McGrogan, aged 50, born Ireland, in the 1891 census in Glasgow Calton. His death certificate should tell you the full names of both his parents. Annoyingly, I have yet to find Patrick, Margaret and family in the 1861 census, which would have told me where Margaret was born.
At 32 Baird's Square is John McGrogan, 41, born Glasgow, who, I am willing to bet, is Daniel's older brother, born 10 January 1860 in Glasgow, with wife Margaret, 37, born Holytown, who is probably Margaret O'Neill, married in Glasgow in 1882. You'll need her marriage certificate to find the names of her parents, because there are two possible candidates: daughter of William O'Neill and Mary McGery, born 15 June 1864, and daughter of John O'Neil and Sarah O'Neil, born 8 November 1864. It looks as if Margaret died in Holytown in 1935.
According to the 1871 census, both William O'Neil and his wife Mary were born in Ireland. I have not yet found John O'Neil and Sarah O'Neil in a census. The two Margarets' birth certificates will tell you where and when their respective parents were married.
But so far, there is no coincidence of surnames between the McGrogan and Brannigan families.
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Wow- Thank You Forforan, I have enough there to keep me busy for some time. I appreciate your efforts in pointing me in the right direction. Once I have a starting point, I can usually muddle along, it will certainly keep me occupied for a little while. if i find anything of interest ,on what you gave me , I will get back to you about it. Thanks again, I appreciate time and effort you spent on it. very much so- regards James
Just for future reference, if I wanted to post a photo, what demintions? pixil side do i use?
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Just for future reference, if I wanted to post a photo, what demintions? pixil side do i use?
Click on 'Attachments and other options' below the message in which you want to include, and it tells you what file formats are accepted - see attached screenshot.
Try not to post large images - best to resize them so that people can look at them without scrolling right/left/up/down.
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So glad i found this page as i am researching Baird Square West as my family were housed there in and around 1871. Their family name was Fairlie o Ferly. Nicholas Fairlie married Bridget Maillie. I would really like to find out where they are buried but I'm not having much luck. Nicholas died there in 1881 at 39 years old. Thank you in advance if anyone has any clues. I have searched the nearby catholic burial grounds as they were from Irish catholic descent.
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These are the only images I have been able to find so far Ruth.
Not much I know.
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Thank you again.
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The 2nd picture is Baird Street, in Coatbridge
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So glad i found this page as i am researching Baird Square West as my family were housed there in and around 1871. Their family name was Fairlie o Ferly. Nicholas Fairlie married Bridget Maillie. I would really like to find out where they are buried but I'm not having much luck. Nicholas died there in 1881 at 39 years old. Thank you in advance if anyone has any clues. I have searched the nearby catholic burial grounds as they were from Irish catholic descent.
The closest would be the churchyards at Holytown and Wrangholm
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Thank you,, I'll check those out as I hadn't heard of them before. Thanks again.
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Both churchyards are less than a mile from Bairds Square
He may not have a headstone
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Thanks again. They are not registered with Find a grave in there. As you say possible no grave marker. Dalbeth cemetery has quite a few Fairleys according to Scotland's People. Its a needle in a... I'm working my way through the cemeteries. Thanks again. 👌
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He is not registered in Dalbeth 1881
When and where did his wife die?
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Have you tried looking at St Joseph's Catholic cemetery in Airdrie? It would have been closer to Holytown than Dalbeth, it opened about 1860 and the records are with North Lanarkshire Council.
Holytown cemetery didn't exist in 1881 but it is possible that your ancestor was interred in the churchyard there in 1881. As far as I know, no records exist for the churchyard before 1912.
Wrangholm has records from about 1876 but the chance of Roman Catholics being interred there are slim, it wasn't within the mainstream Church of Scotland and only church members and their families would have been allowed to use the burial ground. Holytown, (about a mile along the road from Wrangholm), was made a Quoad Sacra parish in the 1860s and anyone living within its boundaries, no matter of what religion, would have had the right to be interred in its burial ground.
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Can someone tell me where Baird's Square was? Like, if I looked at a map today where was it? Thanks.
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https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.0&lat=55.82029&lon=-3.97693&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
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They are not registered with Find a grave in there.
It's not a case of not being 'registered with' FindAGrave.
FindAGrave is a volunteer web site. Whether or not a gravestone appears there depends on (a) there being a gravestone at all and (b) someone going out, photographing the stone and submitting it.
BillionGraves https://billiongraves.com/ is similar.
The best place to start looking for grave records is always the local authority, because local authorities are responsible for managing most burial grounds in Scotland, and they will know who manages any private ones. In the case of Holytown the present local authority is North Lanarkshire https://www.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/births-marriages-and-deaths/deaths/cemeteries/cemeteries-service (Historically speaking, i.e. before 1975, it is in Lanarkshire.)
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https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.0&lat=55.82029&lon=-3.97693&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
Thanks!
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You're welcome :)