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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: elliotnz on Tuesday 26 February 13 09:35 GMT (UK)

Title: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: elliotnz on Tuesday 26 February 13 09:35 GMT (UK)
i am looking for help pretty pleeb,on information on thomas elliot and his twin sister lillie born in mosspeeble,ewes in round 1893. on thomas' marriage certificate it says his mother was elizabeth elliot nee elliot and his father john elliot.  however we were always told that they were illegit.  all i know of their mother is that she was a domestic servant who apparently got kbocked up by the head of the household she worked in. it all very confusing stuff,  and am hoping someone maybe able to help.  lillie and tom both ended up moving to nz.  tom just before ww1 and lillie toward the end ( i think )  thanks so much all..
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Tuesday 26 February 13 10:34 GMT (UK)
Could this be Lillie? birth date:    14 Sep 1891
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XT6Z-VLZ

Thomas? 14 Sep 1891
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XT6Z-VYM

Both found by searching "Langholm" which is a few miles from Ewes
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 February 13 11:21 GMT (UK)
Hi

In 1901, they are boarding in the household of Thomas Vitich in Gretna:

Headless Cross, Gretna

Thomas Vitich, widr, 61, Church Officer, b Gretna
James Thomson, son in law, 29, gen lab, b. Kirkpatrick Flm (Fleming)
Georgina Thomson, d, 25, b. Gretna
James Thomson, grdson, 5, b. -do-
Ez(?) Louisa grdd, 2, b. Kirpatrick Fleming
Lillie Elioy, boarder, 9, b. Langholm
Thomas Elliot, boarder, 9, b. -do-
Dickson, boarder, unm, 37, retired joiner, b. Eskdalemuir


brevitas
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 February 13 11:24 GMT (UK)
A possible for their mother (and father):

1891

Mosspeeple, Ewes


Thomas Scott Elliot, unm,40,  farmer, b. Castleton, Rox
Elizabeth Elliot, unm, 30 housekeeper, unm, b. England
Thomas Bell, servant, 20, b. Canonbie

brevitas

(and welcome to RootChat  :) )
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Tuesday 26 February 13 11:50 GMT (UK)
Could this be a possible birth of the unmarried father I wonder?

Thomas Scott Elliot b. 08 Jul 1850 parents: james Elliott and Margaret Little


https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTBB-96J

Marriage for the parents: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQR-TH3

Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 February 13 11:59 GMT (UK)
Could this be a possible birth of the unmarried father I wonder?

Thomas Scott Elliot b. 08 Jul 1850 parents: james Elliott and Margaret Little


https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTBB-96J

Date fits with his census age  :)


In 1881

Moss Peebles, Ewes
Thomas S Elliot, unm, 29, farmer of 5000 acres, 60 arable - employing 6 men/women & 1 boy, Castleton
James, bro, unm, 25, farmer, b. Langholm
Jane S, sis, unm, 27, farmer's sister, b. Castleton
Agnes Grieve, serv, wid, 40, gen servant, b. -do-
William Sadler, serv, mar, 57, farm servant, b. Annan
William Thomson, serv, unm, 17, farm servant, b. Langolm


brevitas
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:03 GMT (UK)
Siblings possibly of the unmarried father:

John: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYWN-Y9P
William:https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTBB-S88
Jane Scott:https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTBB-HQ2


Not so sure about this but Henry: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBM4-QPF
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:04 GMT (UK)
Looks like he could be married retired farmer by the 1901 census, hence children farmed out?

Jennifer
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:05 GMT (UK)
Having probs finding Lillie on the 1911 in Scotland  :-\

Elizabeth, their mother is difficult to find in 1901 and no death in Scotland before that  :-\
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:06 GMT (UK)
Maybe they left for NZ earlier than thought?
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: ev on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:08 GMT (UK)
Hi all ,

Scotlandspeople has a Will and an Inventory for a Thomas Scott Elliot , Mosspeebles , afterwards Longholm , latterly Salkeld House Great Salkeld Penrith , died 19th June 1906 Penrith.
Thomas Scott Elliot death age 55 second quarter 1906 Penrith England(freebmd)

Don't know if his Will would have any mention of possible children  :-\

ev
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:22 GMT (UK)
Don't think so, ev  :(

3rd October 1906

I Thomas Scott Elliot sometime farmer Mosspeebles and now residing Langholm  for the love favour and affection which I have and bear to Anna Mary Elliot residing at Number Twenty four Abbey Street Carlisle to whom I am about to be married .... my sole Executrix and universal legatory.......subscribed by me at Langholm 1st Dec 1900


brevitas
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:25 GMT (UK)
Did she get an early pre-nup  ;D

Jennifer
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:30 GMT (UK)
I wonder if this is Anna in 1911, no children listed and aged 50:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7KB-JFZ
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:32 GMT (UK)
She's 40 in 1901, b. Scotland
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Tuesday 26 February 13 12:38 GMT (UK)
When ElliotNZ comes back to the board I hope this will all be of use to them as there is nothing worse than a family mystery that's unconfirmed and I think all of this confirms the story  :D :D :D
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: elliotnz on Tuesday 26 February 13 18:35 GMT (UK)
you are all soooo awesome. made me cry.  lillie is my great grandmother .  last night i found on the back of a photo that thomas had sent her during ww1 from france with the address the dale,armathwaite, cumberland.  you cant  imagine how happy you all have made me. im in for an awesome day of investigating and will get back to you when ive looked at all the information you have given mr.  i cant thank you all enough. bloody excited.
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Tuesday 26 February 13 18:39 GMT (UK)
Glad to have helped :D Let us know how you get on!
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 27 February 13 11:12 GMT (UK)
Just been wondering about the John, mentioned as putative father by the OP.

The family in 1861

Westwater, Langholm
ELLIOT
James, 57, farmer of 5576 acres, employing 5 shepherds 5 labourers, b. Castleton
Margaret T, w, 43, b. -do-
John, s, 12, b. -do-
William, s, 11, b. -do-
Thomas S, s, 10, b. -do-
James Thomson, serv, mar, 29, farm servant, b. -do-
Sarah Skellen, serv, unm, 30, dairymaid, b. Canonbie
Jane Warwick, serv, unm, 17, housemaid, b. -do-

John not found afterwards but SP have a death in 1866, Langholm,  for John Elliot, aged 18, mother's maiden name Little. 

So - that part of the story was wrong, it must have been Thomas S!  I like to tie up all the ends  :)

Wonder if this is Lillie:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X729-DNM




brevitas
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Wednesday 27 February 13 14:32 GMT (UK)
Maybe he had just put "John Elliot" on his marriage certificate as a guess of a common name knowing that he could not name his biological father? Or maybe his mother had just told him that he was John?
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: elliotnz on Thursday 07 March 13 21:55 GMT (UK)
I,ve hit a brick wall, i,'m trying to find the household and members of household that elizabeth elliot worked in.  Think its round langholm area as she was in ewes during 1891 census. She was a domestic servant/maid.  Any ideas where I can find this info.? Don't know where to look next. Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: elliot,mosspeeble,ewes,
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Sunday 07 April 13 09:16 BST (UK)
A possible for their mother (and father):

1891

Mosspeeple, Ewes


Thomas Scott Elliot, unm,40,  farmer, b. Castleton, Rox
Elizabeth Elliot, unm, 30 housekeeper, unm, b. England
Thomas Bell, servant, 20, b. Canonbie

brevitas

(and welcome to RootChat  :) )

On the first page of this thread the above is the census records for Elizabeth which is where we concluded that the head of the household must be the father of the twins.

I hope this helps :)