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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: caramarie on Sunday 24 February 13 15:50 GMT (UK)
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Where would Magherafelt Presbyterians have been baptised in the 1820s. Is this church still there? Are 1820s records available?
Shortly after arriving in the US my Magherafelt ancestors were "carpet weavers". Would they have learned this skill in this area.
Thank you very much to anyone who can help me to better understand this area in the early 19th century.
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Presbyterians don't always attend the nearest church and some families have been known to change churches over the years so you sometimes have to check more than one place. Presbyterian congregations have also been known to split and form another church or join a new presbytery which can also make things more confusing when searching for family records.
For Magherafelt-
Magherafelt 1st Presbyterian Church- baptisms 1703-1706, 1771-1780, 1813-1861, 1889- ; marriages 1769-1782, 1845- . Originally part of Moneymore. Records on microfilm in PRONI, Belfast, and Coleraine Library, may also be available to order from your local LDS library.
Magherafelt (Union Road) Presbyterian Church- baptisms from 1868 (start of congregation).
If you know a location for the family it will be easier to see what other possibilities there are. There is lots of information in RESOURCES at the tiop of this board, including a section for Church Records and Graveyards. This link has map of Presbyterian congregations-
http://historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?londonderry
Your ancestors may have been linen weavers in Ireland but probably turned to carpet weaving in the U.S.
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Thank you very much for this helpful information. I think they lived in an area recorded as Ballynocker in the Magherafelt area. I haven't been able to find Ballyknocker but will continue to study the many resources you've recommended.
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There is a townland called Ballyknock, just outside Maghera, which is a few miles from Castledawson. I suggest you post the names of the people you are researching, as this may help narrow the search further.
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Hi,
Ballynocker is just to the north of Castledawson. Curran Road, which can be found on Google Maps, runs through the middle of the area.
Regards
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If Ballynocker (just outside Castledawson) is the correct townland then churches in or near there would be more logical to check than those in Magherafelt. Ballynocker towland is in the Poor Law Union & registration district of Magherafelt- perhaps this is causing confusion?
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Thank you all for your responses. The surname for this area in Castledawson is Speer, but it often is spelled differently. Speer seems to have been the preferred spelling for this branch of my family in the US. I don't know how it would have been spelled in County Derry in the early 19th century. I'm hoping that records for this period and area will clarify the spelling. Thanks again for taking the time to help.
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Hi,
The name Speer/Spear seems to be associated with Castledawson Presbyterian Church from the 1830s. There are also a couple of wills available on the Public Record Office NI for about 1900. See http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx
Regards
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Thank you for introducing me to this site and the wills. Very interesting to read and search on this site even if not related, definitely a source to refer to. Because you seem to be familiar with this area do you know if residents of the early 19th century would have traveled outside their parish, perhaps Castledawson Parish to Bovevagh or even Londonderry? Did they pretty much stay within their own parish? Did they interact that much with others outside their home territory. Many thanks!
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Hi,
Any movement to Bovevagh (over 20 miles north) or Londonderry (40 miles north west) would depend on their job but most people in the Castledawson area would have remained in the Castledawson/Magherafelt areas. To get to Bovevagh or Londonderry means passing over the Sperrin Mountains through the Glenshane Pass.
Regards
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Thank you for helping me understand the geography of the area. This is very helpful in understanding how likely or unlikely it would have been for various parishes to have interacted with each other.
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People moved about freely and whilst many might have stayed in the same area (although not necessarily the same parish) others would have moved about for employment. By the vary natuare of their work, occupations such as farmers and millers tended to stay in same place but others (labourers, domestic help, schoolteachers) were more mobile.
My grandfather's uncle writing about his parents (married 1849) said they lived at the then great distance of 9 miles. However, other relations moved back and forth between Aghadowey parish (near Coleraine), County Londonderry and the city of Londonderry- a distance of about 30 miles.
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Thank you for more insight on the mobility of parish residents in the early 19th century. Would religion also have influenced where they settled or lived. Would Castledawson have been known then as a Presbyterian Parish or were there just areas like Magherafelt within a parish that might have been predominantly of one religion. My research indicates that at least one branch of my early ancestors in Northern Ireland were Scotch Irish and my understanding is that they would then have been Presbyterian. Would knowing their religion be helpful in choosing where to look for them? I'm trying to confine my ancestors to certain areas but they don't seem to be cooperating. It appears that I may be "traveling" through areas other than Magherafelt or Castledawson Parish. Again, many thanks for the excellent responses!
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There would have been a mix of religions in the area you are looking at.
In 1901 census there are 876 people listed under Castledawson itself- 600 R.C., 121 Church of Ireland/England, 125 Presbyterian, 27 Methodist and 3 Moravian. However, searching for Castledawson D.E.D. there are 3167 inhabitants of which there are 1806 Catholics and 97 Moravians which means proportionally more Presbyterians lived outside the village.
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Hi,
If you give us some names and dates we may be able to help.
Regards
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Thank you again for your kind offer to help. The surnames are Speer, the apparent preferred spelling for my ancestors, and just found a US record describing my family, although born in Ireland, being of Scottish heritage. However at least for now my interest is Ireland rather than Scotland. My research indicates they were Presbyterian. An important couple recently discovered in my US research are a John Speer born about 1822 and his wife Sarah Black born about 1824, both born in Ireland but do not know if married in Ireland. Their oldest son born in the US was James, their oldest daughter Elizabeth, also born in US, posssibly the husbands parents? I know that research begins at home but you all have been so informative and kind in your responses that I thought I would also research in Ireland. Many thanks!
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I have found a baptism record for a John Spier, presbyterian, in the parish of Castledawson
Date of Baptism: 12 Nov 1823
Address: Ballynocker
Father: Robert Spier
Might not be your John Speer but spellings change a lot throughout records.
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The 1831 census for Ballyknocker has households headed by John, Robert, Sally and William SPIER. Griffiths Valuation (1859) has households headed by William SPIERS and Robert SPIERS (plots 11a & 11b) and also by Andrew SPIERS (plot 14).
There’s 4 SPEER or SPEERS housesholds there in the 1901 census, who seem likely to be descendants.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/
1 will abstract (summary). The full probate file should be in PRONI:
Full Abstract :
Administration of the estate of Andrew Speer late of Ballynocker Castledawson County Londonderry Farmer who died 20 June 1900 granted at Londonderry to Andrew Speer Farmer the Son
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Thank you both for this excellent information regarding my Speer(Spear) family research in Magherafelt Castledawson. I wasn't able to make a connection but your knowledgeable information gave me clues for further research and very likely could help others in their search.
Sincerely, caramarie
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My gggrandfather William Speer married at Castledawson Pres. Church in 1833. He was listed then as living at Ballynocker, which is off Curran Road a couple of miles out of Castledawson. Spelling was a problem for me when first searching because his marriage was recorded as Spears (English spelling) then on his children's baptismal details it was recorded as either Speir (Scottish spelling) or Spear (English spelling). His death details (1872) at Ballynocker, record him as Speer (Irish spelling) and are available through the General Registry in Dublin because it was after 1864.
One son (Samuel) out of 4 stayed in Ballynocker. The other 3 emigrated to Australia and used the Irish spelling of Speer.
Samuel plus his wife and most of his children were buried (as Speer) in Christ Church graveyard, Church of Ireland, Castledawson. However, several other people with the surname Speer (not directly related to me) are buried in the graveyard at Castledawson Presbyterian Church (see www.discovereverafter.com).
Samuel Speer of Ballynocker is in the 1901 household census.
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Spelling wasn't standardised until fairly recently so it's not uncommon to find lots of different spellings for the same surname (sometimes more than one in the same document).
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I am going around in circles trying to locate the parents of John, Robert and William Speers who all immigrated to Tasmania, Australia between roughly 1866 and 1879. Obituaries / death notices I have located on Trove (Australian website) for the boy’s passing states the parents to be Andrew and Mary Speers of Castledawson, Derry or Belfast, Ireland.
I have located two Andrew Speers passing away, one 20 June 1900 at Ballyknocker, Farmer with probate going to his son Andrew Speers who passed away 14 February 1920 at Ballyknocker. This probate went to Isabella Dawson, sister.
I have also located Census for 1901 and 1911 for Andrew (died 1920).
John and Robert married in Christ Church (Anglican), Cullenswood, Tasmania. John in 1869 to Catherine Scott and Robert in 1877 to Elizabeth Handley.
Working out from dates given in their Obituaries and Headstones, John was born about 1846 and said to be the second son born to Andrew and Mary Speers. Robert was born about 1854. William was born about 1860 and passed away in 1893 age 33, he never married. In his Obituary it states he was the youngest son born to Andrew and Mary Speers of Castledawson, Derry, with the parents being of “advanced age”. I believe this family may be Presbyterian but this is not confirmed.
In some instances I have also located information under the surnames of Spiers, Speirs, Speres in records for Tasmania.
Has anyone else researched this Speers family please or have the ability of researching areas I am unable to gain access to from here?
Cheers Judi
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My GGrMother (Sarah Speers Carr/Kerr) lived in Ballynougher/Ballynocker, N.I. My GGrFather died and the property was left to Andrew Speers.
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My GGrMother (Sarah Speers Carr/Kerr) lived in Ballynougher/Ballynocker, N.I. My GGrFather died and the property was left to Andrew Speers.
Also posted here-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770228.msg6861925#msg6861925
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Thank you JackK for your reply. I had found Sarah Speers marrying Thomas Carr 16 May 1871 at the Castle Dawson Presbyterian Church. I located 11 children born to this couple, quite a number of who settled in the USA.
I have passed on the Speer family information to my cousin to let her know the family history of the families she is descended from.
I have to admit I have not looked at this branch of the family for quite a while now.
Kind regards
Judi
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I had found Sarah Speers marrying Thomas Carr 16 May 1871 at the Castle Dawson Presbyterian Church.
Link-
Sarah SPEAR to Thomas CARR
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11342/8163500.pdf
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Thank you Kiltaglassan for the link to irishgenealogy.ie
I have been using this website for quite a number of years. It is my go to website when looking for later information.
As an aside, can anyone advise me why part of my message has been ruled through please as I did not do this.
Cheers
Judi
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As an aside, can anyone advise me why part of my message has been ruled through please as I did not do this.
Hello Judi, It looks like you may have hit the strike key when you posted this part of your message, I have undone this for you.
Regards
Sarah
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Thank you Kiltaglassan for the link to irishgenealogy.ie
It's the link to the 1871 marriage of Sarah Spear.
Here's the link for others of the search page for IrishGenealogy civil records -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp