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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Completed Requests => Topic started by: LizzieW on Saturday 23 February 13 19:45 GMT (UK)
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From Ancestry, I can see that my 6 x g.grandfather's eldest child was baptised at Almondbury Parish Church, but unlike the baptisms of his other children, where it showed my 6 x g.grandfather was from Lockwood, next to Elizabeth's name is shows her father was "de Eade". The registers are in Latin, so the later baptisms show de Lockwood and others on the same page have de Honley etc. He is not the only father to be "de Eade".
I've attached a Snip of the word to see if anyone can tell me what it is supposed to say. Jillruss has kindly looked at some transcriptions of parish records that she has and they have been transcribed as de Eade too. I've looked on Genuki at the W.Yorks parishes and places nearby but I can't see anything obvious and neither Jillruss nor I can find the place on a map
Lizzie
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I think it is latin for "of the same" or simply ditto so you would need to know what the previous entries were.
Stu
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Oh thank you, I should have paid more attention in my Latin class. ::) ::)
Modified - After some searching - even knowing the date doesn't make life easy when you are trawling through the PRs because they're not all transcribed on Ancestry- I found the baptism again". The baptism I was interested in was Elizabeth, filia de Samuelis Baylden de eade bapt eade. So going from that Samuelis was of Lockwood and Elizabeth was bapt. 27 August, not 26th as Familysearch and the transcription that Jillruss has, have dated it.
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I'm not sure I can agree with that - though I may be wrong!
Eade is similar to the latin idem but it is definitely included in the placename index of the transcription. I suppose its possible the transcriber didn't realise but then, surely, it would have been used many many times - and it isn't. Only half a dozen or so times. I've also dipped into the transcription at various random places and most place names seem to be repeated in full, even if they appear in the line above.
However, I must admit that the entry above that of Elizabeth Baildon's baptism does have a father from Lockwood!
Jill
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Sorry Jill I didn't see your reply when I modified mine. ;D
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The image you have provided is rather fuzzy, please can you say which Ancestry record you found it on........was it on the Ancestry 'West yorkshire Collections' OR the ' Yorkshire, England: Parish Records', what was Elizabeth's year of baptism?
Can you provide a url link to the record?
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libby - It was West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812 but Ancestry has not transcribed it, so I had to put in the name Elizabeth Baildon, born 1655 and then at the side of the search boxes, there is a search area headed Browse this collection. If you choose Almondbury, All Hallows, then scroll down to 1655 that will then bring up the appropriate parish record. Then go to page 2 of 3, August is on the right hand side of two pages shown and Elizabeth's baptism is 5th from the bottom of August.
If you can't find it, I've copied a snippet with other names above and below, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to put it up on here.
Lizzie
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Hi Lizzie, firstly congratulations on finding the record, great tenacity on your part. I'm unconvinced though that it says EADE, but it's mentioned by another rootschatter who has the cd and EADE is mentioned in the Parish Register index, but my thoughts are EADE could be a mistranscription by the transcriber.
My local University has the Parish Register for Almondbury covering 1655, I will be paying a visit there next month, if you haven't resolved the place name by then I will take a look and see if it states anything different, of course it is possible that it's also a transcription transcribed by the same source as the cd.
I was brought up in Hudd's and have never heard of Eade, or anything similar, and do wonder if it's a shortened variation of a place name.
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There was a place named Caud Hill 2 miles south of Hudd's, so in the nearby area of Lockwood.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5xbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA480&lpg=PA480&dq=caud+hill+huddersfield&source=bl&ots=rMcmeEC4Bu&sig=Rf7bODRpx37LKCA1UUDyvOY1H2M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=K5MqUfmCJcjT0QWJwoAY&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=caud%20hill%20huddersfield&f=false
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Hi Libby - I did wonder if it was Caud Hill when I looked on Genuki for places close to Almondbury, Lockwood, Penistone etc. and saw that it was a hamlet in the parish of Almondbury. So it makes sense for the parish record just to show Caud. By 1868 it seems to have changed its name to Cold Hill, Almondbury.
I've done a Google translate from Latin to English and for 'eade' it gives 'said'. I suppose that could be construed as said above, i.e. ditto. The sound of the word is given as 'err di'
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Old, Parish Registers written in Latin.
I suppose it is possible Eade was written with the meaning said, or ditto, but why would the word only be mentioned a few times as quoted by Jillruss? Maybe Jill can tell us if it was the same incumbent each time?
Have you searched for an old map of Hudd's? I'm not sure how far back online old maps go, but again I can look in my local Uni's stock (Leeds).
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06-06 Edmundus Shaw et Maria Tunnecliffe de Eade vill - nupt
according to this link this Eade was in the (Vill) village of Almondbury
Not in link 'de carrs' Marsden ie (Now) Carrs road
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lachs/beaumont/SHAW.txt
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Hi Dobs,
I think that confirms Eade is a place name and not a Latin word for ditto or said. Don't you?
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dobfarm - that makes sense if Eade was a hamlet in Almondbury - perhaps just on the edge or something. However, what doesn't make sense is that the line reads Elizabeth, filia de Samuelis Baylden de eade bapt eade. I can see her father (and she) could come from Eade, but she wasn't baptised there, she was baptised at Almondbury, which is why somehow it makes sense for it to be the latin word eade meaning her father was from eade i.e. the place on the line above Lockwood and she was bapt. eade, ,i.e. the same date as on the line above. I'll attach a small piece so you can decide what you think. The month is August.
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Almondbury parish register is not in Latin but old English and letters symbols used in Latin
Ie;- a R looks like a small n only capital size or cut the middle in the R < out- so it like a n with a wiggle on the right down stroke that does not meet the left up stroke.
You need a list of the old type letters from West yorkshire archives service Wakefield-ask them to send a copy ( there maybe a small charge).
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Google translation has "de eade" translating to "concerning the same", so like others have said previously, effectively a ditto.
It makes perfect sense when you view the entry above and you see that particular entry concerns another family from Lockwood, baptised on the 27th.
I would also have thought that a placename would have been capitalised - these "eades" are both in lower case.
The image is very difficult to read, but you can see the word being repeated after some of the baptisms on that page, so this also suggests that it is being used as a ditto entry.
That's my two penn'orth!
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de~ means Same
it means de eate- part of the (Same) Almondbury village
de eadem- by the same route; at the same time; likewise; same
de eate = de ~same - eate ~ be in the middle ~ - Vill ~Village
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After further searching, I agree 'de eade vill.' means 'of the same place'.
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Proin is latin for ditto or de proin -'repeat as above same.' ditto
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It seems that a good case can be made for both theories!
As I said, the 'placename' Eade or Eads doesn't appear very often in the transcripts so making me think that, if it had meant 'ditto' or similar, it would have been used much more. However, as no one with local knowledge had ever heard of it, I did a little exercise. ;D
I took the volume 1598-1652 which has the most Eade/Eads in the index. I made a note of a few, together with the placename mentioned in the entry immediately above. Sorry, I had to leave out the Kay and Hirst references or I would have been here all day!
1. a)baptised Abraham s/o Michael Wilson de Eade (previous line Netherwonge)
b) a later entry: buried Michael Wilson de Netherthwonge.
2. a)Anchor s/o Anchor Stansall buried de Eads (previous entry Farnley Tyas)
b) a later entry: Baptised Elizabeth d/o Anchor Stansall de Wodd
3. a) baptised Matthew s/o Edmund Field de Eads (previous entry Newsom)
b) baptised Grace d/o Edmund Field de Newsome.
Two out of three of this completely arbitrary selection would seem to point to Eade/Eads indeed meaning ditto or the same. If Wodd (or Wood?) is part of or near Farnley Tyas, we have a hat trick!
I'd say someone should tell the transcriber that eade isn't a placename but the books are ancient. I got them because they were being sold off.
I still wouldn't be 100% but I think the case is probably made for it not being a placename. ::)
[Anyone fancy calling their next son Anchor? Brilliant name....]
Jill
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Hi Jillruss
I think a futher investigation is needed.- A look at the Bishops transcript's at York from start year 17th century may show the wording is better as more readable also a look at the original church PR's. WYAS register of deeds office, place names index register may also reveal the word Eade also their old English letter symbols list.
Dobby
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Until it's sorted out and I have no way of accessing the original records as I'm in Hampshire, I'm going to record the place as near Almondbury. That covers Lockwood and Caud Hill, if indeed eade is supposed to be Caude.
Lizzie
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Being a Yorkshire lass and I can speak broad Yorkshire if I want to -
Eade is how we would pronounce Head.
regards Sandymc
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I have full access to all the archives and will check it out over the coming months as and when I'm doing business in the above cities, York and Wakefield also their expert advice. Also ask locals of Almondbury as there could be a field, house, or ask local people of Almondbury for a slang names like head or eade.
We'll see what turns up
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Thank you for your interest dob and everyone else who has offered thoughts, suggestions etc. If any of you come across anything, I look forward to an update on the thread.
Lizzie
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Hi one and all ;)
Codsall Staffs Parish registers 1677.
Ricardus Jenks , nuper de Codsall and Anna Hand de eade (marriage).
'Nuper' roughly translated means of recent times.
de eade means the 'same as' .
No place name 'Eade' in Staffs or nearby Shropshire. I believe de eade turns up in other registers.
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Hi All, Sorry ! had forgotten about this thread.
In the (abodes overlaped boundries) abodes people in Almondbury / Kirkburton parish's of Holmfirth, Wooldale, Upperthong, Cartworth and other areas around Holmfirth. High on Woodhead moor, Holme moss, top part of Longdendale valley (Now above the Woodhead railway Tunnel), top moor above Hepworth to Crowedge. These moors had boundries of parishes in the Barnsley, Penistone and parishes of Derbyshire and Saddleworth in Yorkshire then.
Today we have Hade Edge, de Eade Edge
De Hade ref would/could appear a corruption of De Eade
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Doesn't it seem more logical that if the word 'Eade' is found in several other old parish registers, from completely different areas, then it has nothing to do with a specific place?
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I am of the same opinion, The Country cannot be covered in villages called Eade ;)
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just done a bit of research.
Latin) Eadem... ' by the same way' or likewise.
In the transcription or the records of Codsall for the entry I quoted it is written as de eade m The detatched M may mean marriage? Remember it is/was common to abbreviate Latin.
Latin) Nuper.... Lately... not so long ago
Regards Nigel
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Not to mix up with! 'Nup or Nupt' in old parish registers is 'marriage' (16/17th centuries)
Latin nuptiālis, from nuptiae -marriage
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Note:- 'de' is mostly from a place in Almondbury parish register
Example
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lachs/beaumont/SHAW.txt
06-06 Edmundus Shaw et Maria Tunnecliffe de Eade vill - nupt (de Eade village)
03-10 Maria f Johannis Shawe de Cloughgate (supra Marsden) - bapt
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Just had a look at some old English or Anglo Saxon.
Ead and the plural Eade means one or all of the following words
rich, wealthy, blessed, happy
on the marriage certificates could mean blessed as in the marriage was blessed.
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just consulted a friend of mine who is an Historian and author of local history books, he has this to say, about the marriage entry I posted with the the words nuper & eade
This is very common parlance in early registers. .. translates as,
Richard Jenks late of Codsall and Anne Hand of the same place.
regards Nigel.
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So we're back where we started from, of the same place (as the one above), therefore ditto. ;D
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Have you looked in the early Almondbury PR's for the 16th century ( mid to late 1500's) as they are much more detailed than later 17th century one line entries. The 'de eade' maybe more defined.
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So we're back where we started from, of the same place (as the one above), therefore ditto. ;D
Exactly. This thread has definitely entered the flagellum equus mortuus zone.
Mike
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Gosh - I understood your Latin and I thought I only remembered Amo, Amas, Amat. ::)
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ab uno disce omnes
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ab uno disce omnes
Haven't a clue, Google translate gives "one learn all" as the meaning. Please tell us what it really means.
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from one learn all (i.e., from one sample we judge the rest) > = ditto
Actually, de eade vill of the same mother parish Almondbury church village (Sometimes put as just 'vill' ) where the mother church is located seem most likely; - as other entries de -denote the sub chapelries of Almondbury mother parish (Not where the actual mother Almondbury church is located)- ie;- de-Honley - de Newsome etc
In short;- De eade (De eadem) same place as the mother parish church village is located
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Thank you. So if the mother parish church was Almondbury and the family came from there it just states de eade. That makes sense as my ancestors lived in Almondbury until they decided to move up the road 2.5 miles or so to Lockwood.
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Some parish's don't put anything for the mother church village abode entries and only put chapelry location for abodes outside of the mother church village, in the mother parish register. Some of the town/city mother parish registers have separate lists, one for the mother church town/city and others lists for each chapelry in the mother parish.
So your last post is your best assumption to be correct, but hard to confirm that far back.
Hope it helps
Dobby :)
Ps- Almondbury village church was then, the mother church of the large area mother Almondbury parish
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I'm going to ask a mod to call this completed now. Thanks to all.