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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Woolara on Saturday 23 February 13 04:54 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know this Family? I can't find anything about them after 1861 so wondered if they migrated somewhere.
Thanks for any enlightenment.
Woolara
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Can you give us the details from the 1861 please so we know who you are talking about :)
Rosie
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Firstly, there are 22 Hawkins living in Bradworthy on the 1861 census.
It's difficult to know which ones you are referring to?
Secondly, Kilkhampton is in Cornwall.
However, the Bible Christians had a circuit based at Kilkhampton, which covered parts of North Devon. I have ancestors from that area who were baptised "at" Kilikhampton!
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Thanks for replying. The ancestor I am searching is Elizabeth Hawkins (married John Colwell 1812 Kilkhampton) but I can't find anything about her birth or parents. I believe she must have been born about 1790. I noticed in 1861 Thomas, Richard and Joseph Hawkins were born in Kilkhampton but then living at Bradworthy so wondered if they were her brothers but no details on their births either. It seems that the Cornwall/Devon boundary must be there somewhere. I live in Australia so not sure about all that. Any enlightenment gratefully accepted. Woolara
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You originally asked where were the family after 1861. Can you please give us the details from the 1861 please so we know who you are talking about.
Rosie
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Given the 1861 census ages of Thomas (63), Joseph (73) and Richard (66) it's highly likely that they had died by 1871.
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Thanks. 1861 census
Thomas Hawkins (63) born Kilkhampton living at Bradworthy an Ag lab, his family Elizabeth (50) William (11)Richard (7)
Richard Hawkins (66) born Kilkhampton living at Bradworthy an Ag Lab, his family Jenny/Jane (56) Thomas (9)
Joseph Hawkins (73)born Kilkhampton a farmer - Hardsworthy Farm, his family Grace (70), William (35), Richard (32), Susanna (30), Moses(27)
So do not know if related to Elizabeth or not. Woolara
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Woolara, we just had the same problem in your thread about Lemon -- it turned out they had emigrated in 1837 so me looking in the 1841 census was pointless. (Is this John Colwill related to Charles Colwill in that thread I wonder?)
The thing to do is give the facts that you have, when you ask a question -- in these cases, specifically, when did your people of interest leave England, and who were they, and what information do you have about them? Names, dates, places -- all the things you know that nobody else does. ;)
(You may have noticed this pattern in your other threads too -- you ask for info about Person X and give a few sketchy details, someone offers a suggestion of a household in a census, and you say thanks but ... Person Y would have been a decade or two older than the one in that household ... Giving all the relevant info to start with prevents false starts and wasted effort like that.)
What you are actually looking for is the family (parents ...) of Elizabeth Hawkins who married John Colwell in 1812 in Kilkhampton?
You likely have an idea of her age when she died, which would be the starting point for looking for her baptism, but you're the only one who knows that at this point!
The only way to tell whether those Hawkins-s born in Kilkhampton were siblings of your Elizabeth would be to find baptisms for one or more of them, and for her.
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Here is the 1812 Hawkins + Colwill marriage:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=835537
A Joseph Hawkins was a witness, but the parish records don't state the relationship. If Joseph in the 1861 census (born c1788) was her brother, it could have been him, as he was likely older than her. Or it could have been her father.
If you search in marriages for surname Hawkin (covers Hawkins) in Kilkhampton
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/marriages/
there are two Joseph marriages, to Mary Jenkin 1776 and Grace Tremere 1782. They could possibly be the same man, widowed and remarried. That marriage would fit with the birth of a child who married in 1812 (and with the ages of all the Hawkins men in the 1861 census you mention), but that's just surmise at the moment of course!
The complete list of male Hawkins-s born in Kilkhampton in the 1851 census is:
Joseph c1788 (called Hawking in 1841)
Richard c1798 (called Hawking in 1841)
Thomas c1799 (called Hawking in 1841)
& John c1805 (can't see him in 1841)
I might wonder whether the surname was originally Hocking (Hocken, Hockin ...) a common Cornwall name.
http://www.hockingdescendants.com/
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Thanks for the advice. I am relatively new to this. I do not know when Elizabeth Hawkins died. I only know her marriage date. Woolara
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Ah, so she's not like Eliza Lemon then! ;)
She did emigrate to Australia too, though? Or should we be looking for her in English records? How about John Colwill, any death or other records for him?
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Know nothing about John Colwill other than marriage date and he came from Bradworthy. Don't know of any immigration either. Assume they remained in England. A John Colwill convicted of Sheep stealing died on the voyage out in 1826 and there are a couple of other Colwills came out as convicts as well some years later. Woolara
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Can you explain what your actual focus is with this couple? Is one of them a sibling of an ancestor, are you descended from one of their children ...?
It's not to pry or suggest you have to justify your question, not at all -- just to establish what you actually do know about them, and what it is you want to find out.
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Hi, Elizabeth Hawkins and John Colwill were my gggg grandparents. Woolara
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So ... we know that Elizabeth Hawkins and John Colwill were the parents of Charles Colwill who married Eliza Lemon in Barnstaple in 1833 and promptly emigrated to Australia?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,637016.0.html
Sorry to say, but it's a little like pulling teeth! ;D
It seems that Eliza and John were deceased by 1841?
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Do not know anything about their deaths or births. Woolara
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I have looked for them in the 1841 census and not been able to identify them ... have you ... looked for them ...?
You do understand that finding someone in a census, for instance, can provide information about their date and place of birth?
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I have looked wherever I thought but to no avail.
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Know nothing about John Colwill other than marriage date and he came from Bradworthy.
Hi, Elizabeth Hawkins and John Colwill were my gggg grandparents. Woolara
So you DID know something about John & Elizabeth! They had at least one child! ::)
And you knew where they were in 1861?
If you want our help, then please tell us everything you know.
Failure to do that means that some of us just give up! I did! :-X :-\
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No I do not know where they were in 1861.
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???
In reply #7 you quoted various families from the 1861 census? :-\
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I have no idea if they relate to Elizabeth Hawkins though.
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I have no idea if they relate to Elizabeth Hawkins though.
I assume then that your Elizabeth Hawkins appeared in Australia/N.Z prior to the 1841 UK census. If so where do you get the information that she was born Kilkhampton. Do her death records give any indication as to who her parents were.
Rosie
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I sowed confusion here -- it was the son of Elizabeth Hawkins and John Colwill, Charles Colwill, who emigrated to Australia pre-1841 with his wife Eliza Lemon (the Lemon thread).
Information about Charles Colwill and Eliza Lemon is taken from their records in Australia, and that's how the name of Charles Colwill's mother Elizabeth Hawkins is known, I think.
And/or woolara found the marriage of John Colwill and Elizabeth Hawkins in 1812 in Kilkhampton.
So as I said -- What you are actually looking for is the family (parents ...) of Elizabeth Hawkins who married John Colwell in 1812 in Kilkhampton?
I think this thread is a good example of how it's best to ask the question one really wants answers to, rather than tangential questions about people who may or may not be related. ;D
The subject of interest here is really Elizabeth Hawkins who married Charles Colwill, and the various senior Hawkins chaps in the vicinity are just people who may or may not be related to her (e.g. brothers).
I certainly think that identifying siblings can help find more info about one's person of interest, for instance if a sibling's birth/baptism record can be found even if a record for the person of interest can't.
But for others to help, we do need to know what we're looking for, to start with. :)
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Thanks Janey
So to find Elizabeth we need to know when & where she was born. To establish her approx date of birth we need her death or census details.
John & Elizabeth appear to be having children christened in Kilkhampton between 1811 & 1819
(familysearch.org)
Charles 1813
Elizabeth 1815
Joseph 1814
Florence 1819
also William 1811 ::)
Pure speculation but in 1841 Tavistock, Devon H0107 249/10 f10 p14
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MQT2-K11
There is a John Colwill age 70 Born in County (Devon)
Florence Colwill age 20 not bn in County.
In the adjacent household there is (Elizabeth might be related :-\ )
Thomas Rubby 40
Elizabeth 25
Thomas 8
Elizabeth 5
Judith 6 mths
all bn in county
There is a burial in Tavistock c1835 for a Elizabeth age 65 but that won't help locate where she was born.
Rosie
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Looks like a good bet for Florence -- have to wonder whether that John, born c1771 or a little earlier, was her father or grandfather, though!
But the 1835 death of an Elizabeth aged 65 would match with that John. But then she would have been about 50 when Florence was born, so hm.
If they really were that age, one might wonder whether one or both was widowed when they married ...
I would guess that the Rubbys were really Rubys. ;)
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The Tavistock option is interesting. Maybe John and Elizabeth moved down there when Charles left for Australia. Woolara