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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Merionethshire => Topic started by: Retpara on Wednesday 20 February 13 22:49 GMT (UK)

Title: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Wednesday 20 February 13 22:49 GMT (UK): Hi Rootchatters,
Would anyone happen to know if there is anywhere on here that I could possibly find a list of gravestones at St Mary's/St Egryns Church, Llanegryn, as this is where I believe my Gt Gt Gt Grandparents were buried. I have tried emailing the vicar of the church but he informed me he was sure they didn't have a list of burials at the church, but would check with the rector and get back to me, that was quite some time ago so trying other avenue's now.
Here's hoping,
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: wrjones on Wednesday 20 February 13 23:41 GMT (UK): This list may be of help;
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MER/MER_PR.html

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: DCB on Thursday 21 February 13 12:48 GMT (UK): There are burials on http://www.findmypast.co.uk

You can search for free but need to pay to see the details or images.

I took a picture of the church yard but can only read two of the names. One, Mary Blodwen Jones, who died in 1931 is in the records. Others go back to at least 1730.

I have pictures of some internal memorials but they are of the local gentry.

What is the name you are looking for?

David
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: EmyrBorth on Thursday 21 February 13 16:25 GMT (UK): Hi
Might be going to Dolgellau Archives tomorrow. What are the names/residences you're interested in.
Emyr
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Friday 22 February 13 23:25 GMT (UK): Hi all,
Many thanks for your replies, I'm sure they will all help, sorry for the delay in reply, computers been down. My Gt Gt Grandparents were a Hugh and Gwen Angel that lived in Tycroes Farm between Llanegryn and Rhoslefain, close to Castell Fawr Farm. Gwen died in 1865 and Hugh died in the 4th Quarter if 1885.
Many thanks again for the help,
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: DCB on Saturday 23 February 13 10:16 GMT (UK): I can't find a burial for Hugh but Gwen was buried in Llangelynin on 26th October 1865

This church is now closed for services but well worth a visit if you are in the area, as is Llanegryn.

There are three trees on Ancestry with descendants of two of their daughters, Gwen and Elizabeth but not for Margaret. One has a picture of Elizabeth and her son, David Owen Lewis.

Hugh had been married before and I think it would have been to Elizabeth Lewis on 3rd May 1836. There is a burial for her in 1838 in Llanegryn.

There are more Angel records but I can't find a baptism for Hugh that fits with his date of birth. The only one is in Llanaber but 1799.

David

P.S. There is a will of Mary Angel of Towyn in 1843 which mentions a nephew, Hugh Angel. This could be the same person - see http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en

Just enter Angel under name.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Saturday 23 February 13 19:10 GMT (UK): Hi DCB,
Many many thanks for the information supplied, regarding Gwen's burial it seems that I got it wrong, I thought they had beeen buried in Llanegryn, as this was the church where they got married, possibly Hugh might have been buried with his first wife then Elizabeth?
With regards to the family trees mine is the Winter tree which I have collated on Ancestry.
Then regarding Hugh on all census's states he was born in Pennal, near Machynlleth so not sure what areas you have access to, with regards to the will I did manage to find that earlier, so once again, many many thanks for the time and effort that you have put in with all this I hope to visit the area some time in the summer.
Regards,
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: DCB on Saturday 23 February 13 20:38 GMT (UK): There are many Angels in the burial index for Towyn but no baptisms or marriages and nothing in the Pennal area.

Hugh omitted a father's name in the marriage register and so may be a bit confused about his origins, although his aunt lived in Towyn. The archives in Dolgellau has a transcription of many Towyn records and it might be worth checking there.

David
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: meganlallen08 on Monday 01 April 13 00:12 BST (UK): Hello Rootschatters,
I am seeking a death record or cemetery marker for Humphrey and Elizabeth Griffiths.
Humphrey born 1776, married to Elizabeth Lloyd in 1815 in Llanegryn, lived in Llanegryn in 1841.
I believe that Elizabeth was the daughter of Hugh Lloyd

Names of Humphrey & Eliz children were: Thomas, Humphrey Jr. Jane, Hugh, John, and William.
Thomas, Humphrey Jr. and jane died in New York. William died in Pennsylvania. Hugh and John stayed in Wales.

Can anyone advise on where to find death record for Humphrey and Elizabeth Griffiths?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: DCB on Monday 01 April 13 09:41 BST (UK): On the 1851 census, Humphrey gives his birth place as Talyllyn c1792 and Elizabeth (Betty) as c1789 in Llangelynin. Their son, John, and grandson, John, are living with them.

There is a Lloyd as a witness at the marriage but can't read the name. David Humphrey is the other witness and Humphrey is from Towyn.

Humphrey of Pontygarth was buried on 19th May 1860 age 69

Elizabeth of Pontygarth was buried on 12th May 1860 age 72

The baptisms of the children give the address as Pantllwyfog.

David
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: meganlallen08 on Monday 01 April 13 10:22 BST (UK): Thanks. I'll go check the census,
I've found llangelynin on google maps. Can't find pontygarth. What is it near?
Amazing that they died with in a week of each other
Cannot find pontllwyfog om google map either, help plz
Megan
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: DCB on Monday 01 April 13 13:20 BST (UK): Go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk and search on pontygarth or pont y garth

The post code LL36 9UG gives it with nearby houses and you can use this in Google Maps and Street View, although you will need the old maps to locate it.

I can't find Pantllwyfog.

David
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: DCB on Monday 01 April 13 15:53 BST (UK): This is a good link to Pont y Garth - http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/wa-87557-pont-y-garth-partly-in-llanegryn-communit

I looked at the marriage record again and the signature is Hugh Lloyd.

There seems to be a reference to him and Pontygarth in the NLW database - "a cottage in the occupation of Hugh Lloyd, a m. called Pontygarth, a moiety of a slate quarry in the
occupation of the said Hugh Lloyd" - http://isys.llgc.org.uk/isysquery/irl3311/2/doc#hit1

David
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 26 April 13 18:28 BST (UK): Hi Retpara,

Hugh Angel is buried at Llangelynin, but he died in Dolgellau. From the Llangelynin Parish Registers, burials:
Gwen Angel died at Tycroes 26th October 1865 aged 49
Hugh Angel died at Dolgelley Workhouse 15th October 1885 aged 76
There is no headstone for either, but there is this one:

Memorial Inscription at St Celynin, Llangelynin

Coffadwriaeth
mai yma claddwyd
EVAN
mab HUGH a GWEN ANGEL
Ty Crous
yr hwn a fu farw Rhagfyr 18ed
1845 yn 4 blwydd oed
Hefyd am
JENNET REES
yr hon a fu farw Medi 11eg 1855
yn 75ain mlwydd oed

Spelling as found. There is another MI for later occupants of Ty Croes; 3 very young children of Edward and Gwen Jones, namely Elizabeth, Edward and Gwilym who all died between 1893 and 1909. If they're yours I'll type it out.

brigau
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Saturday 27 April 13 11:58 BST (UK): Also from the Llangelynin burial register is an entry for Elizabeth Angel of Llwyn who died 4th June 1838 aged 31. Hugh's first wife? There is no headstone.

brigau
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Saturday 27 April 13 14:43 BST (UK): I notice from your 'Winter' tree that Gwen Angel's maiden name was Pugh. This entry from the registers may explain the MI above:

Gwen Pugh was baptised at Llangelynin parish church 10th Sept 1815. She was the illegitimate daughter of Hugh Owen and Jonnet Rees.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Saturday 27 April 13 16:01 BST (UK): Hi Brigau,
Many thanks for the information supplied this is great news, which helps me a solve the problem that I had of finding Gwen Pugh's father, only thing I find strange is that she hasn't adopted the name of either Owen or Rees, further research needed I think.
Also with regards to the later family in your post, it seems that my family moved out from Tycroes farm between 1881 and 1885 when Hugh Angel died, as they were on the 1881 census at Tycroes, but living in Blaenau Ffestiniog on the 1891 census. Therefore anything after these dates would not apply to my family.
Once again many, many thanks for your help with my family tree, it's much appreciated.
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Saturday 27 April 13 16:37 BST (UK): Hi Retpara

"I find strange is that she hasn't adopted the name of either Owen or Rees"

It's not uncommon. I was confused some time ago by a family from Dolgellau from the same time period. Coincidentally they had three children with the surname Owen and two with the surname Pugh, all for no apparent reason.

Jennet/Jonnet/Janet Rees can be found in 1841 & 1851, she remained single. A possible candidate for Gwen's father is Hugh Owen, a mason who later married Marry/Mary. They lived in the same area (can't remember exactly where!)
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Saturday 27 April 13 23:27 BST (UK): Hi again Br1gau,
Many thanks for your prompt reply, all information is gratefully accepted and taken on board.
With regards to Hugh Owen, the only evidence I have is on Gwen Pughe's marriage certificate to Hugh Angel states her father was Hugh Owen and that he was a farmer, but I have no other info other than that, so accepting all help to try and filter through to the correct family.
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 28 April 13 10:22 BST (UK): That's good news, so Gwen's marriage cert confirms the 1815 baptism record found on http://www.freereg.org.uk/

The Parish Registers sometimes contain extra information not otherwise transcribed, such as parents' parish of origin & father's occupation. Next time I'm at Dolgellau Archives I'll double check Gwen's birth record and also see if I can find one for Jennet.

b.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Sunday 28 April 13 11:32 BST (UK): Hello Br1gau,
I just can't thank you enough for the help you have given me so far, it is much appreciated.
Could you please tell me how to find the 1815 baptism entry for Gwen on freereg as every time I search I get the wrong family, as I would like to try and get a printout from it.
Many thanks,
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 28 April 13 12:45 BST (UK): Hi,
On the Freereg search page, record type: Baptisms:
Enter surname Rees, County: Merionethshire, place: LlangelyNNin
Two entries appear, one for Gwen Pugh Owen, the other for Gwen Pugh, surname blank
Click highlighted numbers at left of table to open up record

brigau
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Sunday 28 April 13 21:57 BST (UK): Many thanks Br1gau, got it now, can now put it in Gwen Pugh's folder, helping towards completing her life story.
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 03 May 13 22:59 BST (UK): Hi Retpara,

Checked Llangelynnin, Pennal & Llanegryn registers without a great deal of luck. Pennal is lumped in with Towyn & Llanegryn records are very sparse. The following may/may not relate to your family but here they are anyway. No birth record for Hugh Angel I’m afraid; the only couple who appear to be having children around the appropriate time in Pennal are David & Margaret Angel who lived in Cwrt (Court in the census returns.) You will notice glaring inconsistencies regarding the death dates/ages of Evan Angel & Jennet Rees. I don’t know which is right. Llangelynin churchyard has been surveyed, Meirionnydd Archives have the MIs on microfiche – possibly it's a transcription error, although they’ve mostly proved accurate. Only thing is to go to Llangelynnin and check the headstone!!

Llangelynin Parish Register
1815 September 10th: Gwen Pugh, illegitimate daughter of Hugh Owen, bachelor, and Jonet Rees, spinster, was baptised

1838 December 9th: Elizabeth, illegitimate daughter of William Davies, Ostler of Caerynwch [Dolgelley] and Gwen Pugh, Glandwr, Parish of Dolgelley, single woman, was baptised by Thos. Jones, curate

1849 December 19th: Evan Angel, Ty Croes, was buried aged 4 years, Edward Jones curate

1856 October 1st: Jonnet Rees, Ty Croes, was buried aged 70 years, Edward Jones curate

Pennal Parish Register
1804 July 29th; Ann, daughter of David Angel and Margaret, his wife was baptised

1807 February 11th or 22nd?: Evan, son of David Angel and Margaret his wife was baptised

1809 Margaret, daughter of David Angel and Margaret, his wife was baptised

1815 October 8th: Elizabeth, daughter of David Angel and Margaret, his wife was baptised

(no other ‘Angel’ baptisms in Pennal Parish)

St Peter’s churchyard, Pennal: (Cwrt is a hamlet near Pennal)

Coddadriaeth
am
ANN ANGEL Cwrt, plwf Towyn
yr hon fu farw Medi 4 1857
yn 53 mlwydd oed
Canys ein byr ysgofn gystudd
ni sydd yn odidog ragarol yn
gognoniant a ni
[/i]

Not a great deal of new information for you, I'm afraid!
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Sunday 05 May 13 20:24 BST (UK): Hi Br1gau,
Once again thank you very much for your time and effort put in, every bit of information you have supplied, good or bad will assist as I can put it with the information I have and hopefully come out with good results.
Thanks again Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Sunday 05 May 13 22:30 BST (UK): Hi Br1gau,
Going on the last information you supplied, wishful thinking, perhaps you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like..........

Evan Angel who was buried in 1849 would probably have been Hugh and Gwen Angels 2nd child as on the 1851 census shows Hugh and Gwen with three daughters Gwen aged 7, Margaret aged 2 and Elizabeth 2 months whom was my Gt Gt Grandmother at Tycroes, so Evan might have come between Gwen and Margaret.

On this census Jennet Rees is not shown, but being Gwen's mother may have come to live with them in her old age where she died in 1856.

When Jennet Rees then died in 1856, she was probably buried with Evan Angel being her Grandson?

Lastly with regards to David and Margaret Angel from Pennal, could these be Hugh's mother and father and he has named his second daughter Margaret after his mother and then my Gt Gt Grandmother Elizabeth after his sister?

Coincidence or what.

Any thoughts or views would be appreciated,
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Monday 06 May 13 10:19 BST (UK): Hi Retpara,

Yes, the MI is in error, don’t know if it’s the transcription on microfiche or the headstone itself; suspect the former! From FreeBmd:

Births:
1846 Evan Angel Dolgelley March qtr 27 – 173

Deaths:
1850 Evan Angel Dolgelley March qtr 27 – 133
1856 Jennet Rees Dolgelley December qtr 11b - 259

The 1851 census shows Jenet Rees (transcribed as Janet) living alone in Llangryn village aged 67. And yes, grandmother and grandson are in the same grave, possibly Gwen and Hugh are also there although there is no marker. Sometimes as many as five were ‘layered’ in the same plot.

Certainly the names Evan, Margaret & Elizabeth were common to both Hugh Angel & David Angel's families, but without Hugh’s baptism record it’s impossible to be 100% certain of his parents, however, David & Margaret Angel were the only parents recorded in Pennal at the appropriate time. The 1843 marriage certificate may have Hugh’s father’s name on it:
1843 Hughe Angel & Gwen Pughe, Dolgelly March qtr 27 - 221

Regards,
brigau
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Monday 06 May 13 11:24 BST (UK): Hi Br1gau,
Once again thanks for your thoughts on this family. With regards to Hugh's marriage cert, I have a copy of the original from Dolgellau registry office, but unfortunately he has left his father's name blank.
Hopefully I will be making a visit to the area late summer to take some photograph's and as to say pay my respects, as I have been told there is a very helpful lady that looks after the old church in Llangelynin. Perhaps she may have some records that may help. Not sure about Pennal though.
Cheers Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Br1gau on Monday 06 May 13 17:39 BST (UK): Hi,

Do the witnesses named on Hugh Angel & Gwen Pugh's marriage cert give any clue?

brigau
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Retpara on Monday 06 May 13 21:41 BST (UK): Hi Br1gau,
Sorry not really, the information on the certificate was two witnesses names were John Pughe and Hugh Jones, Curate was Thomas Jones and addresses given was Hugh was living at Bron Cldwr which was just over the hill from Tycroes farm and Gwen was at Clos Bach which was on the same country lane as Tycroes, also as previously mentioned Gwen's father was Hugh Owen.
Not much help there.
Retpara.
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: bettieboo on Wednesday 09 February 22 09:14 GMT (UK): i AM researching my Ancestors, Evan Angel withwife Margaret and son John Angel from Towyn, would be intersted in any info. for this family
Title: Re: Gravestones, Llanegryn.
Post by: Huwcyn on Wednesday 14 September 22 20:23 BST (UK): I visited Llanegryn church a year or so ago. The graves have not been transcribed, and large parts of the graveyard are terribly overgrown. I suspect it's still the case. It's slightly remote, but in a nice spot.

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