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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lunny68 on Tuesday 19 February 13 17:31 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for help in tracing any information about George LUNN, who is listed as being born in Lincoln, possible in Roby or Robey in 1862?
I have the GRO index but would appreciate any local knowledge if anyone has some.
thanks,
Dave
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Hi
He is on the 1881 census with parents
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQNJ-J7P
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And here they are in 1871 :
1871 census :
RG10/4716, Folio 59, Page 23
Yorkshire, Bolton upon Dearne
Bolton Hall
Joseph Mitchell, h, mar, 64, Colliery Owner, b. Yks, Sheffield
Ann, wife, mar, 60, b. Barnsley
E Keene, unm, visitor,, 19, b. Middlesex, London
M A Lord, serv, 18, General Domestic Servant b. Yks, Kimberworth
Maria Cooper, ser, unm, 16, General Domestic Servant, b. Yks, Kirk Sandell,
Levi Lunn, serv, mar, 42, Groom, b. Yorkshire NK
Ann Lunn, serv, mar, 28, Housekeeper, b. Yorkshire, NK
George, 8, Scholar, b. Bolton
Levi, 6, Scholar, b. Bolton
Anne, 5, Scholar, b. Bolton
Martha, 2, b. Bolton
Mary E, 2 mths, b. Bolton
Kind regards,
Pels.
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Carole and Pels,
thank you for your replies; I have managed to find George in a few further census.
What I find interesting/fascinating, is why George is the only one of his siblings born in Roby?
Secondly, there are no George's born in Lincoln in 1862 - only 1862, which is before his parents marriage!!
Dave
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I see what you mean, Dave ? :-\
There's also another George Lunn, who according to the census returns could also fit the registration below. Only his parents are George and Sarah ?
I'll post the details to make it easier :
Birth, Dec qtr 1862
George Lunn
Lincoln, Vol 7a, page 427
And the marriage you referred to for 'your' George's parents :
Marriage, Mar qtr 1863
Levi Lunn
Ann Pine
Doncaster, Vol 9c, page 581
Pels.
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Have you noticed the 1861 census ?
It claims Ann Pine was working as a House Maid - in the same household where Levi 'Lund' was employed as a Groom.
Pels.
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Pels,
Levi did marry the Ann you refer to, as his first wife died in child birth.
I think the George is the one I am looking for and that's the marriage of his parents - was he possibly born first?!
Dave
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The thing is - if George was born before they married, he would most likely have been registered under Ann's maiden name and not the name of his father. Plus, where does that leave the other child who was born in Lincoln at about the same time ?
Do you know the whereabouts of Ann's parents in 1861 ?
Pels.
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Of course - the plot thickens!! ???
Ann's parents were Stephen and Ann and they came from Devon!
Dave
The thing is - if George was born before they married, he would most likely have been registered under Ann's maiden name and not the name of his father. Plus, where does that leave the other child who was born in Lincoln at about the same time ?
Do you know the whereabouts of Ann's parents in 1861 ?
Pels.
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He says he was born in Brigg on another census - Could he have been born Wrawby with Brigg which comes under Glanford Brigg reg district Not Lincoln. :-\ Don't forget it was not unusual for a birth not to be registered before the mid 1870's
Rosie
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Rosie,
and that could mean that 'Roby' is in fact 'Wrawby' - if you say them quick enough ha ha!
On another note I found a George, with the same mother and after, as being baptised on 9 August 1863, with his date of birth being 1 August 1863!!
Dave
He says he was born in Brigg on another census - Could he have been born Wrawby with Brigg which comes under Glanford Brigg reg district Not Lincoln. :-\ Don't forget it was not unusual for a birth not to be registered before the mid 1870's
Rosie
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Levi did marry the Ann you refer to, as his first wife died in child birth.
Who was his first wife :-\
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Levi did marry the Ann you refer to, as his first wife died in child birth.
Who was his first wife :-\
Eliza Sharpe - they married 1858, had a daughter Hannah Maria, but both mother and daughter died in 1860, after child birth. :(
Interestingly, Ann was listed in the 1861 census as working in the same place as Levi...
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Birth, Dec qtr 1862
George Lunn
Lincoln, Vol 7a, page 427
I believe he is the son of George LUNN and Sarah BLACKBURN who married 1859.
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Birth, Dec qtr 1862
George Lunn
Lincoln, Vol 7a, page 427
I believe he is the son of George LUNN and Sarah BLACKBURN who married 1859.
In which case, I am completely confused!!
Dave
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Birth, Dec qtr 1862
George Lunn
Lincoln, Vol 7a, page 427
I believe he is the son of George LUNN and Sarah BLACKBURN who married 1859.
In which case, I am completely confused!!
Dave
I can't see that "your" George LUNN has ever claimed to have been born in Lincoln, so why try and nick my George LUNN who was? :P
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Birth, Dec qtr 1862
George Lunn
Lincoln, Vol 7a, page 427
I believe he is the son of George LUNN and Sarah BLACKBURN who married 1859.
In which case, I am completely confused!!
Dave
I can't see that "your" George LUNN has ever claimed to have been born in Lincoln, so why try and nick my George LUNN who was? :P
We could share ::)
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I can't see that "your" George LUNN has ever claimed to have been born in Lincoln, so why try and nick my George LUNN who was? :P
Oi - I did my best to hang on to him for you, Geoff !! ;D ;D ;D
There's also another George Lunn, who according to the census returns could also fit the registration below. Only his parents are George and Sarah ?
Plus, where does that leave the other child who was born in Lincoln at about the same time ?
Wrawby was a masterstroke from Rosie, but as for anything else, I'm confused too ?
Pels.
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I can't see that "your" George LUNN has ever claimed to have been born in Lincoln, so why try and nick my George LUNN who was? :P
Oi - I did my best to hang on to him for you, Geoff !! ;D ;D ;D
There's also another George Lunn, who according to the census returns could also fit the registration below. Only his parents are George and Sarah ?
Plus, where does that leave the other child who was born in Lincoln at about the same time ?
Wrawby was a masterstroke from Rosie, but as for anything else, I'm confused too ?
Pels.
Beats me - this has perplexed me for many years!
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Wrawby was a masterstroke from Rosie, but as for anything else, I'm confused too ?
Yes, I think Wrawby = Roby is worth a gold star but I can see nowt to back it up. :-\
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Wrawby was a masterstroke from Rosie, but as for anything else, I'm confused too ?
Yes, I think Wrawby = Roby is worth a gold star but I can see nowt to back it up. :-\
Not sure what backing it up means, however even if the Roby/Wrawby is a red herring, there is still no George Lunn born in 1863 who fits!
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Not sure what backing it up means, however even if the Roby/Wrawby is a red herring, there is still no George Lunn born in 1863 who fits!
Backing it up means no evidence of a birth registration or christening. As I said previously
Quote from: rosie99 on Yesterday at 20:23
Don't forget it was not unusual for a birth not to be registered before the mid 1870's
Is George your direct line ?
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Not sure what backing it up means, however even if the Roby/Wrawby is a red herring, there is still no George Lunn born in 1863 who fits!
Backing it up means no evidence of a birth registration or christening. As I said previously
Quote from: rosie99 on Yesterday at 20:23
Don't forget it was not unusual for a birth not to be registered before the mid 1870's
Is George your direct line ?
Rosie,
Yes, I believe he is my 2x Grandather's brother. He appears in all the census info alongside his siblings and is listed as 'son'.
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Birth, Dec qtr 1862
George Lunn
Lincoln, Vol 7a, page 427
I believe he is the son of George LUNN and Sarah BLACKBURN who married 1859.
Geoff, is this something you have found out in your own research?
I wouldn't want to go and potentially order a certificate if it draws a blank at my end.
thanks,
Dave
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I don't have the certificate but I see no reason why it shouldn't be this family https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3FB-MQ1 Ignore the reference to Middlesex, there is nothing of the kind on the image. ::)
There is no evidence that your man (or his parents) ever went within thirty miles of Lincoln.
Sarah BLACKBURN (they married 1859) was a sister of an ancestor of mine.
:)
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I don't have the certificate but I see no reason why it shouldn't be this family https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3FB-MQ1 Ignore the reference to Middlesex, there is nothing of the kind on the image. ::)
There is no evidence that your man (or his parents) ever went within thirty miles of Lincoln.
Sarah BLACKBURN (they married 1859) was a sister of an ancestor of mine.
:)
Yes, that seems to make sense to me - which makes 'my' George all the more puzzling!
I did find an entry to a George Lunn having died in Mar 1914, in Doncaster, of the relevant age, which might be a 'fit' and provide the opportunity to work at this from another angle. If I assume that George is definitely one of mine, then I am in contact with one of his descendants, by marriage, so might have to pick their brains a little more!
The part I do still struggle with, is that in all the census information, George still gives his birthplace as being Lincoln?!
Apologies for all the questions and thinking out loud!!
Dave
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The part I do still struggle with, is that in all the census information, George still gives his birthplace as being Lincoln?!
Forgive me Dave, never once does he mention Lincoln. ???
1871 Bolton
1881 Roby
1891 Brigg
1901 Roby
1911 Robey
Given that, in many cases, Wrawby = Brigg ... "For records prior to 1850, many, many of the records in the Wrawby register were in fact for people living in Brigg" http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/Brigg/#ChurchRecords
and that hearing "Wrawby" could be perceived by a Yorkshireman to be Robey, I don't think there's any reason to link him to the Lincoln birth. ;)
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I did find an entry to a George Lunn having died in Mar 1914, in Doncaster, of the relevant age, which might be a 'fit' and provide the opportunity to work at this from another angle.
The death certificate would not give you information on his parents unless one of them was the informant :-\
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The part I do still struggle with, is that in all the census information, George still gives his birthplace as being Lincoln?!
Forgive me Dave, never once does he mention Lincoln. ???
1871 Bolton
1881 Roby
1891 Brigg
1901 Roby
1911 Robey
Given that, in many cases, Wrawby = Brigg ... "For records prior to 1850, many, many of the records in the Wrawby register were in fact for people living in Brigg" http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/Brigg/#ChurchRecords
and that hearing "Wrawby" could be perceived by a Yorkshireman to be Robey, I don't think there's any reason to link him to the Lincoln birth. ;)
Our ancestors can be so frustrating!! :'(
Might be time to get a map and try to plot where all the George Lunn's born in the 2 years either side of 1863 look like and see how close they are to Bolton on Dearne / Doncaster (where everyone else was born). There has to be an explanation!!
Might have to start calling him curious George from now on!
Dave
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I did find an entry to a George Lunn having died in Mar 1914, in Doncaster, of the relevant age, which might be a 'fit' and provide the opportunity to work at this from another angle.
The death certificate would not give you information on his parents unless one of them was the informant :-\
Rosie,
I am hoping that the informant was a least one of his children or wife - unlikely to be his parents, as his dad had died by then.
(Going to lie down in dark room now ??? !)
Dave
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There has to be an explanation!!
It could be that he was born before the marriage of Levi and Ann and never christened or registered :D
What does his marriage say about his father
Rosie
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There has to be an explanation!!
It could be that he was born before the marriage of Levi and Ann and never christened or registered :D
What does his marriage say about his father
Rosie
There does - I have some other bits and pieces of information which I will try and put into a timeline and see how it looks!
???
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There has to be an explanation!!
It could be that he was born before the marriage of Levi and Ann and never christened or registered :D
What does his marriage say about his father
Rosie
Rosie,
I found this listed on the Genuki site, under baptisms:
09 08 1863 01 08 1863 George LUNN Levi Ann Bolton upon Dearne Son Coachman
(The first date is the date of the baptism, the second the date of birth!)
Dave
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;D ;D ;D ;D
At least you now know when he was born and when christened. Perhaps Levi had just changed jobs and locations.
Rosie
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;D ;D ;D ;D
At least you now know when he was born and when christened. Perhaps Levi had just changed jobs and locations.
Rosie
Except :'( that there does not appear to be a birth listed which matches this information!
Maybe he wasn't called George ha ha!
The 'wandering' scenario could definitely be true, as I am sure people settled where there was work.
Mind boggles!!
Dave
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;D ;D ;D ;D
At least you now know when he was born and when christened. Perhaps Levi had just changed jobs and locations.
Rosie
And (!) I have the marriage certificate of his parents Levi and Ann, dated 29th March 1863, so the dates do not fit anyway!
Dave
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As I have already said it is quite likely that the birth was not registered. Although registration was introduced in 1837 there were still quite a few births that did not get registered. The registration system was tightened up mid 1870's.
It is quite likely that Georges mother was resident in Wrawby at the time of Georges birth, the family could have been resident there for a short while. She then moved to be with Levi in Bolton. Bolton & Wrawby are not really that far apart. At least the place of has not suddenly changed after he left home.
Rosie
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As I have already said it is quite likely that the birth was not registered. Although registration was introduced in 1837 there were still quite a few births that did not get registered. The registration system was tightened up mid 1870's.
It is quite likely that Georges mother was resident in Wrawby at the time of Georges birth, the family could have been resident there for a short while. She then moved to be with Levi in Bolton. Bolton & Wrawby are not really that far apart. At least the place of has not suddenly changed after he left home.
Rosie
Might be that what I am looking for just does not exist!
Would the parents have had to produce something for the baptism?
Dave
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Would the parents have had to produce something for the baptism?
No :)
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Would the parents have had to produce something for the baptism?
No :)
So a possible explanation is that the birth was not registered but then they decided to get him baptised.... except that the baptism took place less than 5 months after they were married!
Possible then that George was born out of marriage and then they waited a few months before the baptism?
Dave
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You have the birth & baptism date and they are only a week apart :) Christened 9th August born 1st August
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Yep!
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Transcriptions/WRY/BoltonBaptisms1860-1869.html
Dave
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Would the parents have had to produce something for the baptism?
No :)
So a possible explanation is that the birth was not registered but then they decided to get him baptised.... except that the baptism took place less than 5 months after they were married!
Possible then that George was born out of marriage and then they waited a few months before the baptism?
Dave
I was answering this :-\
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Would the parents have had to produce something for the baptism?
No :)
So a possible explanation is that the birth was not registered but then they decided to get him baptised.... except that the baptism took place less than 5 months after they were married!
Possible then that George was born out of marriage and then they waited a few months before the baptism?
Dave
I was answering this :-\
Sorry, got out of sync then!
Yes, it is like doing a jigsaw, with pieces missing!!
Dave
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A kiss :-** for the person who can explain the relative birth dates of George and his bro Levi just 7 places below him in the baptism list. :)
*My first though was a pint, but that seemed a bit rash!
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A kiss :-** for the person who can explain the relative birth dates of George and his bro Levi just 7 places below him in the baptism list. :)
*My first though was a pint, but that seemed a bit rash!
Think I'll need a pint when this all becomes clearer!!
To be honest I have managed to find out a lot about Levi, including his death certificate etc.
Dave
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Well Geoff ;D
Levi's may be wrong ;D
Christening 26 03 1864 - born 23 02 1863
I think this could be his birth reg
June qtr 1864
LUNN Levi
Doncaster 9c 519
I also wonder if the date of birth for George is wrong, Levi & Ann don't seem to hurry to christen their children. As we say - always look at the original, the transcription could be wrong.
Rosie
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Well Geoff ;D
Levi's may be wrong ;D
Christening 26 03 1864 - born 23 02 1863
I think this could be his birth reg
June qtr 1864
LUNN Levi
Doncaster 9c 519
I also wonder if the date of birth for George is wrong, Levi & Ann don't seem to hurry to christen their children. As we say - always look at the original, the transcription could be wrong.
Rosie
Excuse my ignorance but do original copies of this type of information still exist?
As you say Rosie, the original could hold the answer(s)!
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Well Geoff ;D
Levi's may be wrong ;D
Christening 26 03 1864 - born 23 02 1863
I think this could be his birth reg
June qtr 1864
LUNN Levi
Doncaster 9c 519
If he was born Feb 1864, he would only be 6 months after George. :)
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Well Geoff ;D
Levi's may be wrong ;D
Christening 26 03 1864 - born 23 02 1863
I think this could be his birth reg
June qtr 1864
LUNN Levi
Doncaster 9c 519
If he was born Feb 1864, he would only be 6 months after George. :)
Families!!
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You can hire films to view at your local Latter Day Saints family history centre
The library catalogue shows what is available
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0szn/
This is the link for Bolton upon Dearne
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0szm/
As I am down south I can't comment on Yorkshire archives at the record offices there ;D
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You can hire films to view at your local Latter Day Saints family history centre
The library catalogue shows what is available
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0szn/
This is the link for Bolton upon Dearne
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0szm/
As I am down south I can't comment on Yorkshire archives at the record offices there ;D
Thanks Rosie, there is an LDS building near me. I am in the South too and until I started this history adventure thought my family were red rose but now I know they are the white rose instead!