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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: DavidJP on Saturday 16 February 13 22:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I have just discovered in the last hour and a half that my 3x gt uncle Joseph Parker & family could well have emigrated to Australia.
I had originally posted on the Derbyshire, England board as that's where they originate from & was given the following info:
Australia Death Index, 1787-1985 about Ambrosine McNab
Name: Ambrosine McNab
Death Place: West Melbourne, Victoria
Age: 52
Father's Name: Parker Jos
Mother's Name: Sophia Parker
Registration Year: 1900
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 14124
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
The family in question were:
Joseph Parker b1823
Sophia Parker b1822/23
Hannah Parker b1843
Joseph Parker b1849
Ambrosine Parker b1851
They were all born in Newhall, Derbyshire.
I did do a quick check on anc*stry & there were the above names all except Ambrosine, going to Melbourne or Melbourne & Sydney. Unfortunately i don't have a subscription so can't look at the full info!
The last record that i have of them in England is the 1851 census, after that they vanished until now, hopefully! ;D
Would any of you wonderful Rootschatters (Aussie or otherwise! ;D) be able to help with this?
This particular family have given me a headache for some while now!
Many thanks in advance.
Kind regards
David
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Hi David
The Argus Monday 5th Nov 1900 - Funeral Notices
McNab - The Friends of Mr WILLIAM McNAB are respectfully invited to follow the remains of his late dearly beloved wife Ambrosine to the place of interment in the Melbourne General Cemetery.
The funeral is appointed to leave his residence No. 80 Hawke street, West Melbourne, THIS DAY (Monday 5th November) at 2 o’clock
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9562406
cheers :)
cupoflife
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Hi
May or may not help http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=marycotter&id=I95345788
Muss
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These children recorded in VIC with father Joseph and mother Sophia PARKER
Mary PARKER b. 1899 1855 at CPBELLS CK
Reg #11509
Joseph PARKER b. 1859 at ARARAT
Reg #8666
Sarah PARKER b. 1860 at ARAR
Reg #20770
Emma PARKER b. 1863 at PLEA
Reg #10000
Robert PARKER b. 1866 at MOYSTON
Reg #23192
Died 1867 aged 9m
Reg #3055
MARRIAGES
Ambrosine PARKER born DERBYSHIRE to William GALT in 1868
Reg # 3907
Ambrosine GALT to Wm MCNAB in 1889
Reg. #7514
Rhonda
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Hi all,
Many thanks for your replies, very much appreciated!
Cupoflife, many thanks indeed for that link, brilliant!
Muss, many thanks, that's definately them, although this person has the wrong birth year and parents for Joseph & wrong baptism date for daughter hannah, everything else matches.
Rhonda, many thanks for those, you have Mary Parker born 1899, on the link provided by Muss she's shown as born 1855, father Joseph apparently died in 1875 so i suspect 1899 can't be right. ;D
There was apparently another child born to Joseph & Sophia namely a Randolph? b18th Dec 1852 Adelaide, South Australia, could this be checked please?
Any way of finding their emigration record as it appears that they emigrated in 1851/52?
Many thanks to you all again.
Kind regards
David
Edited to add birth details for possible child Randolph.
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Hi David
Sorry about the typo. 1855 was the correct year.
Randolph PARKER b. 18 Dec 1852
Parents named Jospeh (as transcribed!) PARKER & Sophia (no maiden name)
Birth Place not recorded.
District: Ade /Book 4/Page 103
Rhonda
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From the Biographical Index SA
Joseph PARKER born c1823 DBY ENG occ Coal Miner
Arrived 1852 on the ship CHINA
Married Sophia born c1823
children: Hannah (c1843-), Ambrosina
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/china1852.shtml
Rhonda
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Hi Rhonda,
Many thanks for emigration record info & correct birth year.
Many thanks for your help, its very much appreciated.
Kind regards
David
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Hi all,
Have been looking at the family tree on the link that Muss kindly posted & i am somewhat perplexed by the marriage shown for Joseph & Sophia's eldest child Hannah.
Hannah was born in 1843 & the marriage shown in the tree is to a John Snibson in 1857 in Victoria, Australia, also their first child Sarah Ann Snibson was born in 1857 in Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia. The only problem with this is that when both the marriage & birth took place Hannah would only have been 14 years old!
Could this marriage be checked out & if not the right one (as i suspect!) then the right marriage found, if there is one?
Many thanks again for all help thus far!
Kind regards
David
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Hi all,
A couple of deaths on the same family tree that i'm not certain are right as well. They being the deaths of Joseph & Sophia Parker themselves.
Joseph Parker died 1875, age 57?, in Moyston/Ararat?, Victoria, Australia. (Joseph would have been 52, born 1823)
Sophia Parker died 1884, age 67?, in Birregurra near Colac, Victoria, Australia. (Sophia would have been 62/63, born 1822/23) Apparently buried at Deans Marsh/Bambra.
The death details i have typed above are as they appear on the tree.
Would it be possible to check these deaths out as i am not convinced they are the right ones?
Again, many thanks for all help so far!
Kind regards
David
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Hi David
Ages recorded at death are not always accurate.
This Joseph was born c1818?
Joseph PARKER died 1875 aged 57 born at NEWH
Parents named Robert and Mary PARKER
No Death Place recorded:
Reg # 11361
Another Joseph PARKER also died 1875 and he was aged 48.
No parents or Birth place recorded
Reg 9473
Sophia PARKER died 1884 aged 67
Father named Rodney, Mother not named
Reg #3608
This Joseph was much closer to the age of your man.
Joseph PARKER aged 70 died 1893 at Leighroad
Parents recorded as James PARKER and Mary PORTER
Reg # 10727
And this Sophia also much closer to her age.
Sophia PARKER aged 78 died 1891 at Brswk (Brunswick)
Parents named Woolyard Walt and Mary UNKNOWN
Reg. # 9379
Rhonda
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Hi Rhonda,
Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
Unfortunately Joseph's parents were Joseph Parker & Joanna Robinson. Although at times Joanna was also known as Hannah, Anna & Ann(e). So the 48 year old dying in 1875 looks to be the closest match at present.
Sophia's maiden surname was the same as her married one, Parker.
I appreciate that ages can be a little misleading and/or inaccurate at times.
Kind regards
David
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Apologies David for possibly repeating your information. I had typed this reply up and before I could post yours was posted.
There is no MI at Melbourne General Cemetery for either William McNAB or his wife Ambrosine PARKER.
Is this Joseph's and Sophia's marriage?
Marriages Dec 1843
PARKER Joseph Burton upon Trent 17/31
PARKER Sophia Burton upon Trent 17/31
Perhaps this will only muddy the waters more ::)
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DERBYSGEN/2001-06/0991626389
Only places of birth are shown in this period on the indexes, not places of death. So born NEWH = Newhall. The death certificate would show where he died and his place of burial. Images of certificates can be purchased online [AUD$20] and immediately downloaded.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Information on death certificates only as good as the knowledge of the informant. I certainly wouldn't get too hung up on ages or parents names on death certs for that matter. You need to look at the other information available which is given by either parent. A birth certificate of one of their children [preferably the last born] would give you the names of previous issue of the marriage, parents' ages, places of birth and date and place of their marriage.
Information on all certificates in Victoria
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Joseph PARKER died 1875 aged 57 born at NEWH
Parents named Robert and Mary PARKER
No Death Place recorded:
Reg # 11361
Scroll down the page to contact details for the Moyston Cemetery Trust
http://www.australiancemeteries.com/vic/vic4.htm
A bit more
PARKER Joseph
Gazetted 20 Oct 1863
Victoria Government Gazette Page#2366
Gazette item sub title heading Unclaimed Ship Letters Ararat
PARKER Joseph
Gazetted 27 Jun 1865 Moyston, Victoria
Victoria Government Gazette Page#1399
Comment: Gazette item sub title heading: Committees of Management
Robert PARKER b. 1866 at MOYSTON
Reg #23192
Died 1867 aged 9m
Reg #3055
My resource shows Robert's father as Joseph PARKER and mother Sophia PARKER on the 1867 death cert.
The linked information above also has Sophia dying at Birregurra however this is not Joseph's wife. Sophia RADWAY was the wife of John PARKER with whom she is buried. Father RODNEY on death cert may be a mistranscription.
Buried at Deans Marsh/Bambra Cemetery
PARKER Sophia 68 years Died 28 Apr 1884.
There is a headstone - photo available on request.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Bambra.htm
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated!
That 1843 marriage is indeed them.
Have looked at the rootsweb link you kindly gave, it's becoming clear to me that they have used the ages from incorrect death records to work back! Not done deliberately i know, but irritating none the less! ;D
Many thanks for the other links, much appreciated.
The two items from the Victorian Government Gazette that you mention, would i find this gazette on Trove?
The Deans Marsh/Bambra burial is the Sophia Parker nee' Radway who died at Birragurra & was wife of John Parker.
Many thanks again.
Kind regards
David
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Doubtful there would any more information in the Government Gazettes. There were frequently lists with names only, of letters awaiting collection. Many local committees eg school, cemetery etc were listed in the gazette. You can search
http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/
I would be contacting the Secretary of the Moyston Cemetery Trust for possible information from the burial register.
Cando
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Hannah was born in 1843 & the marriage shown in the tree is to a John Snibson in 1857 in Victoria, Australia, also their first child Sarah Ann Snibson was born in 1857 in Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia. The only problem with this is that when both the marriage & birth took place Hannah would only have been 14 years old!
Could this marriage be checked out & if not the right one (as i suspect!) then the right marriage found, if there is one?
David
Other researchers have Hannah b. c1841 and bapt. 10 Feb 1843. Other children were supposedly baptized several years after their birth.
FreeBMDs
Births Mar Q 1842 [??maybe born Dec 1841 and recorded in the next Q]
Parker Hannah
Burton on T 17 19
OR
Births Sep Q 1842
Parker Hannah
Burton upon Trent 17 10
The marriage of John SNIBSON and Hannah PARKER was indeed recorded in 1857.
Reg #185
Perhaps her age was put up by to make it look more acceptable?
Hannah SNIBSON aged 81 died in 1922 in ARAT
Parents recorded as Jos PARKER and Sophia UNKNOWN
Reg 11605
These two PARKER children died at Ballarat.
Joseph PARKER aged 60 died 1920 at Ballt
Parents recorded as Joseph PARKER and Sophia UNKNOWN
Reg. # 4171
Sarah Ann HOARE aged 93 died in 1952 at BALLT
Parents recorded as Jos PARKER and Sophia PARKER
Reg #20302
I wonder if this was their mother . . . maybe a typo with her age . . . 86 not 96?
Sophia PARKER aged 96 died 1908 at Ballt
Parents unknown
Reg. #4576
Rhonda
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Hi all,
Cando, many thanks for the link & the Moyston Cemetery Trust suggestion, certainly worth considering.
Rhonda, many thanks for the info, i have a baptism date for Hannah of 15th Feb 1843, also that death record for Sophia in 1908 is certainly a possibility.
Many thanks again.
Kind regards
David
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These two PARKER children died at Ballarat.
Joseph PARKER aged 60 died 1920 at Ballt
Parents recorded as Joseph PARKER and Sophia UNKNOWN
Reg. # 4171
Sarah Ann HOARE aged 93 died in 1952 at BALLT
Parents recorded as Jos PARKER and Sophia PARKER
Reg #20302
I wonder if this was their mother . . . maybe a typo with her age . . . 86 not 96?
Sophia PARKER aged 96 died 1908 at Ballt
Parents unknown
Reg. #4576
None of the above are buried at the Ballarat Cemetery. Bear in mind that these are deaths registered in the District of Ballarat. The actual place of death or usual residence will be noted on the death certificate.
Sarah Ann HOARE was on the electoral rolls from 1903 living at Mt Egerton which is near Ballarat. There is a HOARE headstone or marker at the Mt Egerton Cemetery. Photo available on request
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Mount_Egerton.htm
Sophia PARKER was on the electoral roll in 1903 living at Mt Egerton. She is not on the 1909 electoral roll.
Cando
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Sophia PARKER was on the electoral roll in 1903 living at Mt Egerton. She is not on the 1909 electoral roll.
Cando
Looks like we may have found Sophia! I was inclined to think she lived with a daughter in her old age.
Rhonda
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I would like to find a cemetery record for Sophia and her husband Joseph as there is obviously an error with her age on the index. Some of the writing on the registers is appalling so would be easy for the transcriber to make an error.
Sophia could be buried at Mount Egerton and an unmarked grave. The Trust charge $10 to search their burial register :-X :-X
http://www.mtegerton.com/cb_pages/resource_cemetery_trust.php
Joseph could also be buried at Ararat Cemetery if he isn't at Moyston.
Ararat Cemetery Trust, Mrs J Barry, Secretary, 127 High St, Ararat 3377.
Now where Joseph Jnr is buried?
Cando
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Their death certificates will tell you where they were buried. It will also clarify whether you've got the right death as they will confirm spouses and children.
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Yes you are correct and it has been already mentioned that the death certificates would help however it does save the dollars if we can validate the research with relevant information. Information on death certificates is only as accurate as the knowledge of the informants :-X
Cheers :)
Cando
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Hi David
You have got some really good help from all those wonderful people out there regarding your Parker family. I have been reading the replies and it is all correct as far as I can see.
I have been researching this family for quite some time now as Joseph is the brother of my Thomas Parker who also came to Australia.
I have both Joseph and Sophia's death certificates. Joseph's in 1875 and Sophia's in 1908. They are both buried in Mt.Egerton cemetery. Joseph Parker married Sophia Parker in 1843 in St.Peters Stapenhill E.Staffordshire... registered in Derby.
If you wish I could contact you direct as you may be interested in some of my research and Documents.
Regards Margaret.
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Hi Margaret :)
Welcome to rootschat :)
You can send a Personal Message to David. Just click on the icon under his name...green when he is logged in. A new window will open and just type away :)
Info about PM's
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Did Joseph died at Mt Egerton? Just curious really. Shame there is no MI there.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi all,
Apologies for the delay in responding to you all, but have not been back from my local library for long, where i went to use their access to anc*stry! Unfortunately you are only allowed a limited amount of time on the computers there each day & i regularly find that the time allowed is not long enough!!
I did have all (or almost all anyway!) of the census returns for my Parker family, but due to my previous memory stick dying on me, have lost a load of stuff including all my Parker Census Returns! :'( Have managed to get about half of them again while at the library today & hope to get the other half on Thursday (assuming i don't run out of time again like today! Also the library's closed tomorrow (Wednesday))
Hi Margaret, a warm welcome to rootschat from me as well. It's wonderful to hear from you. Could you tell me about your ancestor Thomas Parker, as i had no idea that he had emigrated either! I was under the (possibly mistaken!) impression that Thomas had stayed in the UK all his life, however i can now see that there were two Thomas & Ann Parker's around at the same time in Newhall, Derbyshire & not only that but both Thomas's were born the same year as well! Arrrgghh!! This i might add is not the first time that this problem has cropped up with this family! I too would be more than happy to share my many years of research in the Parker family with you!
Cando, many thanks for the further death info & the electoral record info, much appreciated!
Rhonda, i agree with your remark entirely, re having found Sophia & her living with her daughter in her old age!
Toban, many thanks for that, always good to know what information appears on records, much appreciated!
When on anc*stry today i was unable to find Joseph & family's emigration/passenger list record, while having a transcription is great & better than nothing, is there any way of my getting a copy of the original?
Many thanks for all help so far, it is very much appreciated indeed!
Kind regards
David
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David not everything is on Ancestry. Would certainly make for boring research if it was ::) There are many links to help researchers in Australia at the top of the board. I often wonder if anyone bothers to read them. Our moderator spent much time searching and collating the links both for Australia nationally and then each State individually. In my opinion, essential reading.
Passenger lists survival in South Australia is scant. The passenger information was transcribed and collated from a number of resources including [from the website] State Library South Australia, official passenger lists, mainly of immigrants arriving in South Australia under United Kingdom assisted passage schemes, 1847-1886 GRG 35/48a (formely ACC 313); Sydney Shipping Gazette; South Australian Register; The South Australian Government Gazette; Biographical index SA 1836-1885 (the B-index column indicates individuals who may be found in that index, with corresponding reference number for further research)
Cheers :)
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated!
I've had a look at some of those links on the Australia Resources Board & even tried a few out!!
Went up to the (i think!) State Library South Australia site, but couldn't find anything about Joseph, i'm also really curious as to when Thomas (Margaret's ancestor) emigrated, i think it must be after 1862 as i have him on the 1861 Census & i think a child born in 1862, perhaps Margaret will be able to tell me!
I did also, using the links find Randolph's (Joseph & Sophia's Son) birth record in Adelaide area, South Australia. Finding & searching Australian records online is a learning curve, but i am learning!! ;D
Kind regards
David
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Hi David
I am wondering if you somehow along the way have got the wrong Parker line in Derby. Probably the wrong Joseph as there were a few born around the same time. It would not be difficult to do.
I noticed in one of your messages david that you said the parents of Joseph were Joseph Parker and Joanna Robinson. I am not sure where you got that information from as I don't agree with you on that. Joseph's parents were Robert and a Mary, going by the info on his Death Cert.
He is the son of Robert Parker and Mary Elliott (Ellet) they married on 8 Dec 1822 in Ashby de la Zouch.
Joseph was baptised on 22 Dec 1822 in Ashby de la Zouch. He is on the 1841 Census aged 18 with his parents, and on the 1851 Census aged 28 with wife Sophia. His age given on the voyage to Australia on the "China" in 1852 is 29.
Although his age on his Death Certificate in 1875 given as 57 is not correct......it also says he was born in Newhall Derbyshire and his parents were Robert and Mary Parker. His wifes name given as Sophia Parker, her maiden name also Parker.
His children given are Hannah, Joseph dec. Charlotte dec. Ambrosine, Randolph, Mary, Joseph, Sarah, Minnie, Thomas dec.and Robert dec. So this is definitely the right D.C. He died in Egerton Vic. on 12th September 1875 and was buried there on 15th September.
This is what I have for Joseph and Sophia Parkers children.
Hannah bap. 10 Feb 1843 Newhall. d.1922 Vic
Charlotte bap. 13 July 1845 " buried 16 Mar 1847 (1y9ms)
Joseph bap. 27 May 1849 " buried 20 Mar 1852 (4yrs)
Ambrosine bap. 26 Jan 1851 " d.1900 W.Melb Vic (52)
Randolph b.1852 Adelaide S.A. d. 1863 (10)
Mary b.1855 Campbells Ck. Vic. d.1938 N.S.W.
Joseph b.1859 Ararat Vic. d.1920 Ballarat
Sarah Ann b.1860 Ararat Vic. d.1952 "
Emma (called Minnie) b.1863 Mt.Pleasant Vic. d.1939 (77)
Thomas b? d?
Robert b.1866 Moyston d. 1867 (9 ms) Moyston
My Thomas only gave his place of birth as Derbyshire on his D.C. and his parents as Robert and Mary. Not much to go on..but something. I believed Joseph was his brother as he was living in Moyston for a while with Thomas. Their son Robert born and died there. Listed in a Directory as T & J Parker, Miners Moyston. So I decided to trace Joseph hoping to find out where and when he died so I could find out where he was born, parents names etc.
Regards Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
Well, i am now totally & completely confused. As you say, there are certainly a number of Joseph Parker's around at the same time, same with Thomas Parker's. My Joseph has been giving me a headache for some considerable time now. Every time i think i've found him, i then find that i haven't! ???
My Parkers are as follows:
Joseph Parker b1788, Newhall Derbys married Joanna Robinson in 1816 in Tamworth, Staffs where Joanna was born in 1796.
Joanna was also variously known as Hannah, Anna & Ann(e) on various records. Joseph & Joanna's children are as follows:
John b1817 Tamworth Staffs
William b1819 Newhall, Derbys
Thomas b1820 Newhall, Derbys
Joseph b1823 Newhall, Derbys
James b1826 Newhall, Derbys
Richard b1828/31 Newhall, Derbys
Mary b1833 Newhall, Derbys
Jonathan b1838 Newhall, Derbys (Jonathan is my gt gt grandfather)
I know all about most of them having finally pinned down Richard recently, but Joseph is the exception. I have now been through several Joseph's neither of which seem to be my Joseph! ???
Will i ever find my Joseph?
Kind regards
David
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Hi all,
Sorry about this looks like i just found my Joseph!
Buried at St John's Newhall, Derbyshire:
Parker, Joseph; 3rd October 1843; Age 20; Parish, Newhall
Don't know how i missed it before! slightly embarassing! :-[
Kind regards
David
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Thanks so much. Newbie here and my husbands family SNIBSON (Snibstone, Simpson) are the ones I'm looking for so this thread on the PARKER family is very helpful in giving me information on Sophia's child Hannah PARKER who is my husbands 2 x great grandmother and this has now provided me with all of her siblings. Hannah and our John Snibson had 16 children in total some dying quite young in the harsh Australian conditions. Being able to reference the ship Hannah's parents sailed to Australia on is quite amazing! So thank you.
I'm going to keep looking until I find them all
:) π